BASHING THE US.

[artie on edge]

Educate yourself my friend:
http://www.warscholar.com/Timeline.html

educate yourself Yummi, if at all possible.... good night...

[Yummi]

No dont bother because now YOU have arrived at this pont "Hardly: That would require a level of concern that you do not warrant.".

Sorry buddy but I have lost that need to discuss it with you...and I think that is sad......

Fair enough, we will agree to disagree. 

Just to show you there is no ill will; The US will still keep our forces patrolling your waters so again; sleep well.

[artie on edge]

Fair enough, we will agree to disagree. 

Just to show you there is no ill will; The US will still keep our forces patrolling your waters so again; sleep well.

dont bother, you dont , you havent (unless it suited your needs), you wont... your arrogance will make you fell good about it tho... no mat,e no ill feeeling..just sadness...

[artie on edge]

seriously, if you think YOU patrol OUR waters (rather than the other way around).. you really are full of it... bye buddy.

[Yummi]

AUSTRALIA'S close defence alliance with the United States is to be further entrenched with the building of a new US military communications base at Geraldton in Western Australia.
The Age has learned that the US is to build the base, which follows three years of secret negotiations with Canberra.
The base will provide a crucial link for a new network of military satellites that will help America's ability to fight wars in the Middle East and Asia.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/us-gets-military-base-in-australia/2007/02
/14/1171405295243.html


Its hard to be a sovereign nation when you have an occupying force - even if it is by "alliance."   You want I should list out the other 38 countries that depend on us?   

[Yummi]

The official list of countries that we have bases in is as follows:
Antigua
Australia
Austria
Bahamas
Bahrain
Belgium
Canada
Columbia
Cuba
Denmark
Egypt
France    
Germany
Greece
Honduras
Iceland
Indonesia
Italy
Kenya
Japan
Luxembourg
Netherlands
New Zealand    
Norway
Oman
Peru
Portugal
Singapore
Spain
South Korea
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Venezuela

To this must be added the bases that we have in Diego Garcia, Greenland, Hong Kong, Kwajalein Atoll, and St. Helena. This makes a total of 39 foreign locations that the United States officially has bases in, not counting bases in U.S. overseas territories like Guam, Johnston Atoll, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.

[Yummi]

Even the Aussie government recognizes their dependence on the US for your own safety.......







The Australia-US Alliance and our Defence
6.32 Our alliances and international defence relationships are important aspects of our security arrangements and are dealt with in Chapter 11 of this White Paper. There is one aspect however of our alliance arrangements which should be explained here. Defence self-reliance means that Australia would only expect the United States to come to our aid in circumstances where we were under threat from a major power whose military capabilities were simply beyond our capacity to resist. Short of that situation, the United States would reasonably expect us to attend to our own direct security needs and, in any event, we should not expect anything less of ourselves.

6.33 What the alliance means for our direct security is that the associated capability, intelligence and technological partnership, at the core of the alliance, is available to support our strategic capability advantage in our immediate neighbourhood and beyond. This is indispensable to our security.

6.34 It also means that, for so long as nuclear weapons exist, we are able to rely on the nuclear forces of the United States to deter nuclear attack on Australia. Australian defence policy under successive governments has acknowledged the value to Australia of the protection afforded by extended nuclear deterrence under the US alliance. That protection provides a stable and reliable sense of assurance and has over the years removed the need for Australia to consider more significant and expensive defence options.

The US Alliance
11.5 Our alliance with the United States is our most important defence relationship. In day-to-day terms, the alliance gives us significant access to materiel,intelligence,research and development,communications systems, and skills and expertise that substantially strengthen the ADF. The alliance relationship is an integral element of our strategic posture, as explained in Chapter 6. Without access to US capabilities, technology, and training, the ADF simply could not be the advanced force that it is today, and must be in the future, without the expenditure of considerable more money.

11.6 Formal undertakings to support each other in time of need underpin our defence relationship with the United States. Those undertakings are stated in the Australia-New Zealand-US (ANZUS) Security Treaty of 1951, in which the parties agreed to "act to meet the common danger". This does not commit Australia or the United States to specific types of actions, but it does provide a clear expectation of support. In this context, Australia chose to invoke the ANZUS Treaty for the first time following the 11 September 2001 attack on the United States.

11.7 Australia and the United States will continue to look for ways to deepen our defence cooperation. Under the umbrella of the Enhanced Defence Cooperation Initiative, agreed between our two countries in 2007, we are exploring how we can develop a combined humanitarian assistance and disaster relief capability to enhance our joint responses to catastrophic regional events. Significant collaboration is also underway in the ISR field, with Australian and US officials actively pursuing new options for enhanced cooperation. Australia and the United States have also agreed to continue development of the Joint Combined Training Capability which both reduces the cost, and improves the quality, of unilateral and bilateral training. Australia will also continue to provide access to training and exercise ranges for US forces, including strategic bombers.

11.8 Satellite communications are vital to the United States and Australia, and we will continue collaboration in this area. The US-Australia Military Satellite Communications Partnership Statement of Principles of 2008 commits both nations to exploring further technical collaboration and joint access to satellite communications capabilities. Without this collaboration, Australia would have to devote significantly more resources to develop the intelligence and communication capabilities we need.

11.9 Both countries are also committed to fostering cooperation in other areas, such as: strategic planning and wargaming; the harmonisation of capability requirements and interoperability; technology access and acquisition; combined operational planning; regional engagement cooperation; missile defence and space situational awareness and mission assurance (which were covered in Chapter 9); research, development, test and evaluation; and logistics and materiel support.

[trojan]

It shows strength of character when one can continue doing good deeds with the knowledge "no good deed goes unpunished"

With all the shade of grey considered and appreciating there is no black or white, the US does a much better job of being the world police than the Brits before them. I doubt China will do as good a job when they take over

[fabr]

For the time being I'm locking all politically orientated topics in the forum. There is a LOT of good to be had from good dialogue and debates but, as with nations,we need to take a time out to let the testosterone and national pride settle and give time to reflect on all the good points brought up by all parties. Our nations need to and IMO so do we at this time. FWIW I ,as I'm sure others, have been shown things I did not know. Things to ponder. The unfortunate thing about continuing on with out a break is that pride,ego,nationalism,whatever you wish to call it brings about fighting and hurt feelings. Therefore I am locking the politically orientated topics and will at some time in the future allow the topics again as I feel it is a very good thing to have these discussions so we can all learn more and ultimately have a happier world. It just takes an intermission to cool things off a bit and then get back to friendly discussion. NOW ,back to buggies!    fabr