Standalone VS Piggyback ECU's

[fabr]

Let's talk pros/cons of each and the differences in the two. It is my opinion that piggybacks work well enough for many that are not going to use high boost. IMO, if going above say approx 10 pounds then a standalone becomes much more attractive IF you have the skills needed to map it. Come on guys slap me down!

[Enemy]

I use[d] both and have had excellent results! On the Busa it was the Powercommander and FMU. Great for bolt-ons and low boost like you say, but limited (and sometimes glitchy)  when you are trying to run larger than stock injectors with higher boost levels. The nice thing about that setup is that lots of people with a similar setup on the Org are willing to send you their map to get you up and running.. Still need to tune to make it you map though (The fun part! )
Now I have moved on to stock ECU flashing and secondaries to support my boost habit. Now we are getting more complicated but reliability and safety to handle higher HP. BUT flashing the stock ECU is no easy task, setup time alone can be a pain in the ass, but well worth it in the end.
I run an AEM on my F150. As their software advances, the wizards for setup get people up and running quicker, but it is not an easy task to fire a built motor from a barren map, not to mention a bit overwhelming for some. To really grasp what the standalones are capable of, download their software and check out the avanced functions...The sky really is the limit.
I was working on a small warm start issue last night...getting closer!
Heres a visual.. Not even a scratch to the surface.

[Enemy]

Now for a major CON of a standalone (at least it was for me anyway.. :-\ ) Sensors and clean voltage...My AEM does not tolerate dirty voltage, it does not play well with poor grounds, and it absolutely HATES distributors (one of the reasons I am switching to Coil-on-plug) Timing errors plague users trying to go plug and play with these systems. That is someting a standalone will never truly become IMO. "Plug and Play". I fought stock sensors for quite some time just to find out that a wiring harness that is 15+ years old doesn't play nice with new electronics! Swap it out and guess what! Retune the entire Fuel and timing maps! The factory builds a ton of tolerance into their systems. You learn that very quickly when you start it up the very first time and see your sensors shitting all over you map! lol. I still enjoy it though..

[fabr]

That's pretty well sums up my understanding. Trojan,boost,others? I know you guys have more experience with stand alones than I have and your opinions are desired as well.

[BDKW1]

I used a SMT-6 piggy back unit on a turbo Toyta 22R that worked very well.
 
I used an SDS stand alone on My old Bronco. Also worked extremly well. Filled it with water and mud twice and after a quick clean and dry it worked like new.
 
Worked on a Motec system on one of the trucks I used to prep. Made good power, had lots of features. Unfortunantly, it was very finicky and a large portion of the time it had something wrong with it. Ended up swaping back to a carb........

[Boostinjdm]

My experience is mainly with honda cars.  I have delt with several piggy backs for fooling the ECU.  A couple different APEXI models, greddy, MSD BTM, rising rate FMU, and a few others that I can't remember right now.  All of which ended up being spotty on performance and limited in adjustability.  I have quite a bit of experience with the ZDYNE Gold ECU in my civic.  Unlimited in it's capabilities.  It is essentially a stock ecu that can be tweaked on the fly with both fuel and timing maps.  It has seperate maps and control for nitrous and will register boost (the stock ECU will not).  It also has a adjustable hot/cold rev limiter and idle speed.  Basically anything the ECU controls can be modified however you desire.  I have slightly larger injectors that are dialed back off boost to retain idle quality and cruising MPG's.  The best part about this is that it plugs right in to the stock harness.  I link it to my laptop with a phone cable and I am ready to play.  I almost forgot, I run stock fuel pressure with a larger volume pump. I realize it's not a Busa, but it is a good example of the capabilities.  I can't do screen shots on this comp so you will have to look at thier website.

http://www.zdyne.com/

I always wondered if one of these could be adapted to a bike engine.  Since everything is tunable and a bike basically has the same injectors, sensors, etc.
I got my ZDYNE used with a laptop to run it for $300.  So it could be cheap.

[Enemy]

My experience is mainly with honda cars.  I have delt with several piggy backs for fooling the ECU.  A couple different APEXI models, greddy, MSD BTM, rising rate FMU, and a few others that I can't remember right now.  All of which ended up being spotty on performance and limited in adjustability.  I have quite a bit of experience with the ZDYNE Gold ECU in my civic.  Unlimited in it's capabilities.  It is essentially a stock ecu that can be tweaked on the fly with both fuel and timing maps.  It has seperate maps and control for nitrous and will register boost (the stock ECU will not).  It also has a adjustable hot/cold rev limiter and idle speed.  Basically anything the ECU controls can be modified however you desire.  I have slightly larger injectors that are dialed back off boost to retain idle quality and cruising MPG's.  The best part about this is that it plugs right in to the stock harness.  I link it to my laptop with a phone cable and I am ready to play.  I almost forgot, I run stock fuel pressure with a larger volume pump. I realize it's not a Busa, but it is a good example of the capabilities.  I can't do screen shots on this comp so you will have to look at thier website.

http://www.zdyne.com/

I always wondered if one of these could be adapted to a bike engine.  Since everything is tunable and a bike basically has the same injectors, sensors, etc.
I got my ZDYNE used with a laptop to run it for $300.  So it could be cheap.

It is being done, although I know that it is difficult to get an AEM to sync (some wont at all) with the ignition on the Busa. Fabr sent me a link to a forum that had a write-up of the MS system being use on a busa and getting great results...I think I could boost my old john Deere lawn tractor if I could get a good ignition sync with a standalone....

Hmmmmmm...that would be SWEEEEET.

[Boostinjdm]

I looked at the AEM units when I was putting my car together and I passed on it because of the price and the problems you are having.  The aftermarket standalones like the AEM's and Megasquirt's, etc. all have the problem of being built from the ground up.  What I mean to say is that they are not a factory unit like my ZDYNE is.  It put's up with all the sensor and wiring shit that a factory ECU will, plus it is tunable.

[RC51 Rhino]

 OK so now that this is here, has anyone thought about doing something like this to the RC51? I've looked at what seems to be everywhere and since the street guys don't turbo it, there is nothing for it?

 I've been playing with the TBI systems for a while now (jeeps, offroad auto powered stuff) with great results but I'm a little leary about something as advanced as the bike F.I. stuff.

 Sorry to hijack if it doesn't really fit here, interesting all the same.

[standfast]

My experience is the standalone is only going to be as good as the time you put into it.  Most of them can be setup to work properly on anything.  Some are better setup for certain ignition systems than others and that is where most people run into problems.  The ignition input and using that signal  correctly.  I have put together several different setups.  I like the Haltech units for a real universal setup that can be made to work with almost anything.  Not a easy task for most though.  Electromotive units are a real easy install if you have a good trigger wheel and use their ignition system.   MS is a bit ghetto but really cool if you are on a budget and have more time than money.  The main thing to confirm is if the ignition input on your motor is well supported with the unit you choose or if there is good retrofit setups that can be made to work.   

[Enemy]

OK so now that this is here, has anyone thought about doing something like this to the RC51? I've looked at what seems to be everywhere and since the street guys don't turbo it, there is nothing for it?

 I've been playing with the TBI systems for a while now (jeeps, offroad auto powered stuff) with great results but I'm a little leary about something as advanced as the bike F.I. stuff.

 Sorry to hijack if it doesn't really fit here, interesting all the same.

If you could get the cam and/or crank signal of the motor to sync with the ECU, either by using the factory electronics or by retro your own crank trigger,it can be done. Getting the tooth count set up for the particular firing order and keeping sync to prevent timing errors is the bitch part. Thats where the trouble lies like Standfast stated, and where people give up :-[

Are you just wanting to add some boost?

[fabr]

Can you guys explain more in detail what is needed to "sync" this stuff and/or how to know if they can work together?

[Enemy]

Can you guys explain more in detail what is needed to "sync" this stuff and/or how to know if they can work together?

For me software setup is the biggest part. If mapping from scratch, the user has to define coil dwell, tooth count for coil fire within crank timing and define the injector timing in relation to cam timing. In a wasted spark setup, the coil drivers and firing order needs to be properly configured with the compatible coils (I use LS1 coils) A lot of guys with the AEM's are building their own crank trigger wheel or retrofitting from a motor that already used one, same goes with a cam trigger. The software has wizards to help you along, and are constantly being improved. (I got lucky, AEM designed a drop in EPM, or engine position module, for in place of my distributor on the Fords) Then it all needs to be locked down and verified with a timing light that the motor and ECU are all on the same page...hard to do with a map you a fighting to keep running the first time.  :P Fun isn't it!! Interesting though is that I hear of poor signal out of the stock Busa cam and crank signal to keep a good sync. Not sure why that would be... 
Again, there is much more to it, but one can get the general idea.

[RC51 Rhino]

 Just thought it might have the cool factor. My buddy says he's getting about 350 hp out of 8 psi boost on his subbi powered Tatum Spyder, sounds like maybe I could jump my RC51 up 50 hp with a little?

[Yummi]

sounds like maybe I could jump my RC51 up 50 hp with a little CASH!?

There - fixed it for you....