Author Topic: leaf spring vs slipper spring  (Read 914 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2021, 05:51:25 AM »
here is a video of a 26' like we just put a deposit on. this is a customers custom build but based on the there basic floor plan. you can see in the print above how we changed that.  this video is 5 years old so the new interior is updated.

hard to tell in the video but the 8' side walls are only in the back 1/3 ish as the nose tappers up like a wedge shaped. this appealed to me for less wind drag as well as head winds. doesn't look horrible plus function trumps form in my book. i went aluminum corrigated sides and fiberglass nose. yes they will dent easy, but , they will not de-laminate.  500 lbs lighter as well! i have ins for hail lol they also use a slightly better insulation on the aluminum sided vs fiberglass because of the build process. also went with an agm 200 amp hr battery mounted inside under the bed for easy access and to keep it out of the elements. that fridge only pull 3.8 amp according to dometic. the batt alone would easily carry it to st a dunes but with a 100 watt solar panel on the roof it won't be a problem ever. deleted all wall mount furniture as we have the 80" long couch, for max cargo room. still have access to the kitchen, bath and bed with the rail loaded. no genny as i wanted the full under bed storage accesed from the outside baggage door as well as the flip up bed with gas struts. never needed a genny either. everything in our unit will be 12volt except the 2 ac units. we went with remote controlled roof ac's non ducted. the ducted are nice as there slightly quieter but inefficent as the temps in those roofs get very hot on hot days. that warms up the cold air and drags them down. this way i have a dedicated 13.5k ac to freeze my ass out in the bedroom lol in the cad print you'll see i had them add a vent through the wall at the ceiling from the ac in the bed room to the bathroom. max fan power vent in the bathroom and over the cook top in the kitchen. added a 48" window in the patio wall as well as a 30" door with screen door and window. an opposing 48" window on the left side wall so it gives the illusion of more space. casey earned his money working with me  :m  ;)  :m the man has a lot of patience  rofl
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 06:17:50 AM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2021, 06:41:27 AM »
this company is factory direct. i asked about warranty claims out of state. he not only sent me an email speilling out what is and isn't covered but how the warranty works.  also explained that 80% of there builds are out of state, so not an issue. no middle men dealer ships to deal with! gives a 2 year full warranty on all appliances and fixtures as well as a chassis warranty. i'm pretty impressed over all so far and i have to give him credit for always returning my messages in less than 24 hrs! they answer when you call and promptly return messages! that's a big one in my book for a manufacturer!!!!!

they charge $995 for a full 200 watt solar system. they charge $179 for the solar prep which is a fully pre wired 30 amp renogy controller w/o digital display. they added a 1.5" pvc tube out the roof ( with cap of course) through the wall to the battery so i can pull wires. the renogy 30 amp controller is pre wired to the distribution panel, to the battery and he's running wires to the roof cap for me. if i go with 300 watts and max the controller out i can pull additional wires this way. had them oversize the batt cables in case i decide on a 2nd batt and 300 watts vs the 100 watt panel i plan on. i can easily add a blue tooth digital display later on which requires a phone app. tried to get it set up for future use off grid. this is why even the tv is 12volt  ;D also upgraded to a porcelain toilet as the plastic ones make me wonder if there going to collapse!  aslo, no carpet anywhere in the entire unit! worst thing the camper industry does imo!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 06:52:31 AM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2021, 07:01:58 AM »
really like this floor plan but out of my price range with the slide out. they will also up grade to 8k lbs axles. that's a 36" deep slide out on this one! i also like the fact they don't add the ugly fender well covers like all the others. there a pain in the ass to to work around when you have to pull wheels for what ever reason.

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Online fabr

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2021, 07:43:37 AM »
Completely agree on the torsion pros and cons. If I had a trailer that would never be off road or continually needing tight/near jack knifing turns I would definitely go torsion again. I still have a 45 footer with triple torsions and they do ride much smoother than springs. TOrsions with triple axles have proven to be quite hard on the center axle when turning tight. Off road or on rough terrain there is no equalization of the load like non slipper suspension offers. Therefore each axle can be easily overloaded on rough terrain or going through intersection dips in the roadway. Bottom line is torsions are best suited for highway transportation and limited offroad/uneven terrain.

Slipper spring suspensions are just noisy. Slippers will require less maintenance and they do avoid the issue of shackle wear. Slippers are in reality heavier duty in that sense.Slippers ,in general allow less articulation between axles compared to shackles though. Just depends what you need. Slippers are not a bad design.I just don't like all the squeaking.Personaly, on a dual axle 7K each setup I'd go with shackle suspension.


where i can only imagine the extreme loads of a triple axle i did not know the center axle take the brunt of it. good to know and i wouldn't go torsion anyway.  100% correct on not equalizing the load.....i failed to meantion that above.

so slipper springs were offered as an option and that's why i asked. i will go with standard leaf springs on 7k axles.
When I built the trailer that burned  I planned on using triple torsions and designed everything to fit the torsions. The dealer (A&N Trailer Supply,Tulsa BTW lol). They knew what I was building. Came time to order axles after everything but the interior was done and guess what,Dexter informed me it was a bad idea to run triple torsions. OK then,I'll just run springs. OH HELL NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Frame was to wide to accommodate springs.Springs under frame would sit trailer toohigh since the point of running the torsions was to get a very low deck height to accommodate loading the 2" ground clearance dragster in the first place. Dexter was adamanant that it wasn't known for quite some time that torsions were only long term reliable with tamden setups(or single)and were just then recommending against it. My solution was to run heavier duty torsions and spread the axles so I didn't have to rework all the siding and some framing. I just eliminated the center one. Dexter advised that would work.Towed like a dream and rode smooth as silk.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2021, 08:38:10 AM »
have to give dexter credit for admitting it but.... damn it would've been nice to know that sooner!

 i did inquire about spread axles for the unit i just ordered. casey was upfront from the get go. he informed me that even though they use a better chassis than most of the indiana companies, spread axles load the frame rail differently. he stated that where cargo trailers as well as car/flat bed etc etc use sturdier chassis's, there's are still based on a camper chassis and not well suited for spread axles.

 i am no expert in that field and have not researched much,  but i can kind of see his point in a torsional sense.? i did/do know the camper I beam construction is not as rigid as a cargo trailer boxed tube frame rail.  i have always considered the benefits of a spread axle to be all good. they help with sway control a bit, better support the load a little better imo.

 i never considered the additional stress's ( bending/torsional moment) to the frame member. i always thought it would spread the load out farther but didn't consider the additional stress's from loading/side loading one axle more than the other through curves, over bumps and such. again all comes down to frame design choices/considerations.

https://mechanicalelements.com/choosing-trailer-frame-material/

https://mechanicalelements.com/mounting-trailer-axle-springs/
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 09:03:49 AM by dsrace »
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Online budlight69

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2021, 08:39:15 AM »
That is going to be a nice trailer.  I like the solar prep package and the exterior lights.  Does the side patio roll out like a slide?  Never seen one on the side like that.  You guys will enjoy it, and room for family! 

Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2021, 08:47:33 AM »
That is going to be a nice trailer.  I like the solar prep package and the exterior lights.  Does the side patio roll out like a slide?  Never seen one on the side like that.  You guys will enjoy it, and room for family!

thanks and i sure hope so. the side patio is literally a 7' tall ramp door usually used on the rear of the standard models. just like the rear patios on some trailers they use cables to support it. rated at 3k lbs, there is still a 1500 lbs weight limit on it unless you add ground support like slide box supports then he said it's a full 3k lb rating. i don't for see a 1500 lb load being put on it lol by going with 8' side walls in the rearward portion, this allows for a side ramp. the wall they have to build to support it is 6" deep so i lose 6" of loading width for that 8' wide patio/ramp door on the side. my front end is only 80" wide with straps so all good there with plenty of room in the rear for my wide ass 90" rear. bonus!!!! with the 8' rear ramp gate is that they weld a square tube frame ( like a roll cage) to support the opening. this also is the reason the loading width is 95" wide!! so my rail will pull in with paddles on!  ;D  ;) the other nice part is that the patio gets you 30" closer to the awning so better coverage if it's raining as i don't like being trapped inside! i also have a 9' screen enclosure that will fit that awning and patio very well, for bugs. i will have to cut it to length and i'll add snaps to attach it to the underside of the patio. later date project. on that wall ( as seen in that cad print) i purchased 2 full range marine speaker box's that flush mount. i will ship them and they will install and wire them in. one in the ceiling over the rear couch. the other will go over the patio window for outside speaker. these box's have 2 tweeters, 2 mid range that drive a pneumatic sub in the center. they handle 200 watts each and i have an amp for them that i will send as well.  also added an outdoor outlet on that patio wall so the wife can plug her tablet book in and i can charge my go pro cams or fan or what ever.





« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 09:23:44 AM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2021, 09:09:29 AM »
fabr...... you had meantioned some time back, that you didnt care for slipper springs on light and med duty applications. can you elaborate on that?

i ask because i'm getting ready to order a custom trailer with dual 7k axles and debating standard leaf vs slipper. i do not like torsion axles as i have seen there limitations many times.

Could you expand on the torsion axle issue?  thanks

for what  it's worth..... direct from dexter axle's pdf page.   

Trailers equipped with Torflex®axles must be towed in a level attitude to ensure even loading of the axles. Out-of-level towing results in higher loads being imposed on the axle at the low portion of the frame and less load on the axle(s) at the high end. This uneven load distribution may cause excessive stress concentrations on the frame structure. Uneven loading of non-equalized suspensions can also affect the ride characteristics by altering the natural frequency of the structure
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2021, 09:13:56 AM »
all they say about spread axles


7Trailer Design Considerations•
 Spread axle mounting will lend added support to frame structures but will result in more tire wear and impose higher stresses on the axle components and axle mountings. Increased tire wear usually results from the added side scrubbing that occurs when negotiating sharp turns or corners.
• Wide-spread Torflex® axles will be subjected to higher stresses at the bracket/tube interfaces as a result of frame racking. Racking occurs when the vehicle travels over uneven surfaces and the loads imposed at each wheel are substantially different. If the torsional stiffness of the vehicle structure is relatively low, the areas where the cross members are joined to the main frame rails and the axle bracket/tube welds must withstand the twisting that occurs in these critical regions. Excessive flexing may result in fatigue failures. To reduce the potential for problems due to racking, position the axles closer together.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2021, 09:43:10 AM »
budlight69  they do offer a sliding glass door as seen in this video. i do not like sliding glass doors so i was out on that option. now there are 3 seasons folding patio doors as an option. they are nice as the top windows lower for half screen walls. windows are tinted as well for some solar deflection. 2 problems with those...... A. the take that patio box intrusion from 6" to 10" deep. B. they are not sealed top and bottom but rather use a brush bristle type affair. i do not like that for the bug intrusion factor and we make 2 or 3 trips a year where there are lots of bugs. it would give the full glass wall look which would be nice but to many con's.

based on how i took our conversation, sounds like they'll weld a frame to support the side patio opening. when sticking with a standard 48" wide by 22" tall sliding window along with a standard 30" wide rv entry door then the box intrusion is only 2.75" as seen in that cad print.  i assume he was able to do so as the patio walls are removable also. i just sent an e mail to confirm this to be sure.




« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 10:08:19 AM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2021, 09:54:42 AM »
in this video he used the gen 1 3 seasons folding patio door. they used vinyl windows rather than glass. you can see the daylight at the bottom and top of the unit and that didn't change on the gen 2 model with glass.



you can see the new design in this video.

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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2021, 10:12:17 AM »
budligt69 , i think you as well as many others can appreciate the custom addition to the patio wall in this custom fifthwheel  ;D ;D i know you'll spot it  ;) ;)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2021, 03:52:24 PM »
this is what i want to do to the lower of the new one. ordered w/o lower skirting .







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Online fabr

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2021, 06:14:30 PM »
You'll LOVE that.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online budlight69

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Re: leaf spring vs slipper spring
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2021, 09:10:12 AM »
this is what i want to do to the lower of the new one. ordered w/o lower skirting .








Do you buy those somewhere, are they custom made or do you have to make them?  A cool addition either way!