Author Topic: 4 speed convert plus hp  (Read 6522 times)

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Offline dsrace

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4 speed convert plus hp
« on: December 23, 2019, 08:19:09 AM »
so i finally got some time to work on the rail a bit. just about got the motor and trans ready to pull. i knew my exh manifold gasket was leaking on the last trip but i also knew i had a safe tune in it. i didnt know it was leaking on 3 cyls.......i thought it was just one.  am going to send the trans off and have it converted to a 4 speed as well as deeper gears except 4th, that will be higher. i am also am buying enemy's perf head and set the timing with a degree ring out of the frame  :D
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Offline fabr

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2019, 10:52:38 AM »
How in the hell were you getting any boost and further how in the hell were you tuning that leaking thing?? O2 corrections had to be all over the place.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 10:59:40 AM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2019, 11:26:19 AM »
to be honest this manifold has leaked from day 1. it has't been on long thogh. it is warped and that is from the guy that welded it. so i thought i had it sealed and on the 3rd day of the first trip with it installed i started to hear a leak. keep in mind i heard that over my headset. so i re tq'd the bolts and the sound cleared up. i honestly believed it was cy # 1 that had the leak.  so as everyone can see it damn sure wasn't cyl one that was leaking lol crazy thing is those 2 bolts on cyl would stop the leak or in the case the excessive leak  LMAO  LMAO  soooooooo ya....on the tuning side i am going to bet there will be some small adjustments to be made. the last 2 trips i didnt even try and tune as i knew it was leaking. i started with a safe tune so i never let it make any crazy changes but ya...... no way the 02 was correct, a real tesiment to how quick and efficient the borgwarner efr turbo's are  to still spool that quick and that high leaking on 3 cyl  rofl
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Offline Lance-W

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2019, 12:09:18 PM »
Cut the ports on the header apart and make them individual.  It'll seal easier and there's no reason for them to all be attached............    Attached to each other they just fight one another to mate to the head.

Offline dsrace

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2019, 12:16:57 PM »
in most applications you are correct lance........on thes motors, for some reaseon the indv tubes are known to crack. he warped it welding it. i will plane it on my dads mill. my last t3 manifold was flat and never had an issue.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2019, 02:13:21 PM »
my first 2 turbons were t3 flanges. the smaller efr's are t25's so i bought a new manifold from the guy that mad my last one. he also made one for dougs yellow rail and enemy had him make one. enemy's is a top mount rather than the log style i and doug have. this is the 1st one that is warped this bad. enemies has cracked a few times on the welds, sad as it shouldn't have. so this manifold and turbo were installed last winter or early spring.
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Offline Enemy

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2019, 12:17:17 PM »
Cut the ports on the header apart and make them individual.  It'll seal easier and there's no reason for them to all be attached............    Attached to each other they just fight one another to mate to the head.

Sorry if this starts a hijack, but I welcome this!
I considered cutting my flange and separate the cylinders, I feel it may be cracking because it IS a one piece flange.
On the other side of this coin, why the hell do these headers need to be stainless?? I can build a redneck header out of mild steel  and they dont crack.. Im sick of welding this one up that just cracked AGAIN!
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Offline Enemy

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2019, 12:18:49 PM »
And your rail is gunna be one sick sumbitch by the way! Pulling the head on the Ranger next week..
"If the hate of men could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world."   ~Nikola Tesla

Offline Lance-W

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 12:30:52 PM »
Cut the ports on the header apart and make them individual.  It'll seal easier and there's no reason for them to all be attached............    Attached to each other they just fight one another to mate to the head.

Sorry if this starts a hijack, but I welcome this!
I considered cutting my flange and separate the cylinders, I feel it may be cracking because it IS a one piece flange.
On the other side of this coin, why the hell do these headers need to be stainless?? I can build a redneck header out of mild steel  and they dont crack.. I'm sick of welding this one up that just cracked AGAIN!

You gotta ask yourself what exactly is the bar between the ports doing after the flanges are bolted to the head. 
1. Does it keep the header ports from expanding with the head or vice versa the header heats up faster then the head probably?  If that's the case then every time it heats up it shears the gasket/seal between the header and the head and you have a leak!
2. Does it have the same thermal expansion ratio as the big hunk of head so they expand together?  I seriously doubt it!
3. The header is carrying the weight of the turbo statically and dynamically?  That bar between the flanges ain't doin shit to solve that problem.  I would guess that's where you're cracks are coming from or it's the expansion within the header itself (all the tubes pulling and pushing on each other as a result of thermal expansion) which could probably be mitigated by some gusseting.

Offline dsrace

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2019, 03:22:48 PM »
Cut the ports on the header apart and make them individual.  It'll seal easier and there's no reason for them to all be attached............    Attached to each other they just fight one another to mate to the head.

Sorry if this starts a hijack, but I welcome this!
I considered cutting my flange and separate the cylinders, I feel it may be cracking because it IS a one piece flange.
On the other side of this coin, why the hell do these headers need to be stainless?? I can build a redneck header out of mild steel  and they dont crack.. I'm sick of welding this one up that just cracked AGAIN!

You gotta ask yourself what exactly is the bar between the ports doing after the flanges are bolted to the head. 
1. Does it keep the header ports from expanding with the head or vice versa the header heats up faster then the head probably?  If that's the case then every time it heats up it shears the gasket/seal between the header and the head and you have a leak!
2. Does it have the same thermal expansion ratio as the big hunk of head so they expand together?  I seriously doubt it!
3. The header is carrying the weight of the turbo statically and dynamically?  That bar between the flanges ain't doin shit to solve that problem.  I would guess that's where you're cracks are coming from or it's the expansion within the header itself (all the tubes pulling and pushing on each other as a result of thermal expansion) which could probably be mitigated by some gusseting.

so  where i do not understand that on the level that you do, i do understand the basics of it. i do agree with what your saying as well. what i have read on this particular application is that all that make ss manifols for these engine use the full plate. i assumed it was for better heat transfer to maybe pull heat out of that part through the head. also i should include the flat plate is mild steel and the tubes are 304 ss heavy wall, schedule 40 i think.  enemy's plates as well as dougs and mine were purchased from bo port and built by a guy in oregon. again this is not a specialy of mine and i do not understand it it on the level you do. in my case he warped it when welding it and i knew it when i bolted it on. i had no time left to true it and its didnt seem that bad with the type of manifold gasket i had.  it didnt work lol it did not warp from use though, hasnt gotten any worse for sure.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2019, 10:57:11 PM »
My turbo is supported with a bracket. About 10years now and zero cracks. It's stainless. Hmmmm...............
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2019, 10:59:43 PM »
Are the headers welded while purged of air with argon?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2019, 06:10:34 PM »
he says he does but only he know for fact.

so got the engine out and trans today. i just need to get the custom lance w trans shipping container and get it shipped out.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2019, 07:49:16 PM »
I saw your cars twin at LS today.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: 4 speed convert plus hp
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2019, 06:41:37 AM »
what would that be??  ;D
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience