Author Topic: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks  (Read 1736 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2019, 07:33:49 AM »
based on that info your on the threshold of 0 vac. do you know the fuel pressure sensor reads correctly on your data log? i have one installed but its not stable at idle. i used the same one enemy uses and it is rock solid for him but not for myself. i have mine mounted in the same place he did as well.  also, does your fuel pump see batt voltage? have you ever checked the ecu to verify that it is reading the same voltage as the batt? i had to correct my megasquirt, it red 1.5 volts less that what i saw at the batt. if the ecu thinks you have more or less voltage it changes everything.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2019, 09:23:29 AM »
out of curiosity.....did you even data log even a short run on the sand in your v-8 rail?

the reason i ask is ( based on what the cam guy told you) i would think that would be shown on the data log. i do not doubt it at all, i would really like to see it on the data log as imo that would be very impressive!  if that is true ( again i do not doubt it as it makes sense) that would mean you actually built a nascar engine for your rail !!  rofl talk about taking it over the top  :m ;D ;D i don't care who or what anyone thinks, to build that and stuff it in a rail ......i have to tip my hat for that one!  ;D that just makes fast look normal  LMAO LMAO

on the data log i would think that in the midrange at prob 62% and greater tps, one would see something in the range of 95 to 101 kpa?? your ve should be up as well ? if do have the data log save it because i would like to see it just because. i don't know and i bet with the limited run time but say if your inj's were well matched for the build then you were prob say 65% in that mid range? actually interesting to think about when talking about an n/a motor when you think about it!
I agree with what you said and yes,it was a pretty good air pump.With the cam I had in it ,too good at mid range. This new setup should be at least as efficient at moving air.The Brodix heads and the Sb2.2 heads should be approximately the same air flow capability.Approximately 400 CFM @ 28". I will assume for now the new cam will be a bit more mid range friendly. I'll know before long.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2019, 09:33:21 AM »
based on that info your on the threshold of 0 vac.Yes,a very low restriction intake tract. do you know the fuel pressure sensor reads correctly on your data log?Not at this time but is on list of things to check. i have one installed but its not stable at idle. i used the same one enemy uses and it is rock solid for him but not for myself. i have mine mounted in the same place he did as well.  also, does your fuel pump see batt voltage? Yes,but will of course double check.have you ever checked the ecu to verify that it is reading the same voltage as the batt?At this time all I can say is battery voltage is steadyacross all rpm ranges. 13.6-13.9 i had to correct my megasquirt, it red 1.5 volts less that what i saw at the batt. if the ecu thinks you have more or less voltage it changes everything.SFAIK the FAST ecu doesn't reference battery voltage but the battery and logged voltage are right on .
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 09:45:20 AM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2019, 08:47:15 PM »
so that it impressive and on fuel pressure do you have a vac line connected to the fuel reg? if so disconnect that, it's only used for forced induction.Uh,no,that is incorrect.The regulator is for vac and/or boost referencing. It should be used whether N/A or boosted.See link below. no matter what dripping down to 20 ish psi is an issue This is correct for sure but I don't have enough vac under WOT or mid throttle to pull it anywhere near that low. I believe I need to pull the pumps and do some investigating the supply side.but again that could be vac doing that. just for example....my rising rate fuel reg is rated for up to 100 psi. wasn't easy finding one that actually put a rating on it! mine raises fuel psi 1 lb per 1 psi boost up to 25 psi then it drops to .75 lbs per 1 psi. i run 130 lb inj's also. i tried an actual walbro 450 pump but it began failing quickly or it couldn't move the fuel it was rated for. either way i went to the a1000 which is over kill for myself. the walbro worked correctly for the first several runs but by the 3rd day at st a it started dropping to the point it wasn't supporting 18 psi boost.  i did read a post that load/kpa mirror each other up to 100 at sea level and at altitude that changes but seems to part ways by 80 at altitude. so no matter what your motor moves some air n/a!
https://www.enginelabs.com/news/video-how-a-fuel-pressure-regulator-works-with-efi-university/
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2019, 07:16:46 AM »
you are correct, they are for vac/boost reference.  i know on the passenger vehichles i have worked on the vac reference is usually a 5 psi diff. in my case i set 43.5 psi with vac hose disconnected reconnect and it drops. i have 21" vac at idle. i read that article you posted the link too......very good article! i just would't have thought one would require such a large swing on psi but i can see why now.  your right, it must be your pumps or in the fueling system. 
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2019, 07:39:04 AM »
based on that info your on the threshold of 0 vac.Yes,a very low restriction intake tract. do you know the fuel pressure sensor reads correctly on your data log?Not at this time but is on list of things to check. i have one installed but its not stable at idle. i used the same one enemy uses and it is rock solid for him but not for myself. i have mine mounted in the same place he did as well.  also, does your fuel pump see batt voltage? Yes,but will of course double check.have you ever checked the ecu to verify that it is reading the same voltage as the batt?At this time all I can say is battery voltage is steadyacross all rpm ranges. 13.6-13.9 i had to correct my megasquirt, it red 1.5 volts less that what i saw at the batt. if the ecu thinks you have more or less voltage it changes everything.SFAIK the FAST ecu doesn't reference battery voltage but the battery and logged voltage are right on .

what i was getting at on batt volatge it that......inj dead times spec sheets show what they flow at different voltages. the ecu needs that infor or should need that info to calculated required fuel based on available voltage. this will not cause fuel pressure to dip to 20 psi of course but if its off a bit then it could cause the inj's to flow less fuel than the ecu thinks and in turn you turn the pw up to compensate. i would assume you needed or there is a place to add the inj deat time/flow info in the faste ecu?     i was mistaken earlier, my batt v's were only off .5 v from batt to what the ecu read.  my v gauge on my dash was off 1.5 v's.....chickity china gauge that is gone. 

on another note lol i forgot to reconnect my alt wire back to my batt after working on something before the fall dune trip. i turned the engine on and could not figure out why my afr gauge was reading low 15' to low 16's at idle! my alt keeps my v at 14.1 to 14.8 while running. usually 14.1 to 14.4 but after a few more cold start cranks than normal i will see 14.8v for a bit. so my pump running at 11.5 vs 14.1 reduced fuel flow. not your issue but worth checking if there's a v drop??
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2019, 10:23:08 AM »
you are correct, they are for vac/boost reference.  i know on the passenger vehichles i have worked on the vac reference is usually a 5 psi diff. in my case i set 43.5 psi with vac hose disconnected reconnect and it drops. i have 21" vac at idle. i read that article you posted the link too......very good article! i just would't have thought one would require such a large swing on psi but i can see why now.  your right, it must be your pumps or in the fueling system.
I have read that 2"vac =1psi.  with a 1:1 rate regulator I would expect to see your43.5 base without vac connected lower to approximately33psi. Is that what you see or do you use a rising rate regulator?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2019, 11:01:34 AM »
based on that info your on the threshold of 0 vac.Yes,a very low restriction intake tract. do you know the fuel pressure sensor reads correctly on your data log?Not at this time but is on list of things to check. i have one installed but its not stable at idle. i used the same one enemy uses and it is rock solid for him but not for myself. i have mine mounted in the same place he did as well.  also, does your fuel pump see batt voltage? Yes,but will of course double check.have you ever checked the ecu to verify that it is reading the same voltage as the batt?At this time all I can say is battery voltage is steadyacross all rpm ranges. 13.6-13.9 i had to correct my megasquirt, it red 1.5 volts less that what i saw at the batt. if the ecu thinks you have more or less voltage it changes everything.SFAIK the FAST ecu doesn't reference battery voltage but the battery and logged voltage are right on .

what i was getting at on batt volatge it that......inj dead times spec sheets show what they flow at different voltages.True the ecu needs that infor or should need that info to calculated required fuel based on available voltage. this will not cause fuel pressure to dip to 20 psi of course but if its off a bit then it could cause the inj's to flow less fuel than the ecu thinks and in turn you turn the pw up to compensate.I believe FASTs strategy is to use O2 readings to do the compensation instead of flow rates based on voltage. i would assume you needed or there is a place to add the inj deat time/flow info in the faste ecu?     i was mistaken earlier, my batt v's were only off .5 v from batt to what the ecu read.  my v gauge on my dash was off 1.5 v's.....chickity china gauge that is gone. 

on another note lol i forgot to reconnect my alt wire back to my batt after working on something before the fall dune trip. i turned the engine on and could not figure out why my afr gauge was reading low 15' to low 16's at idle! my alt keeps my v at 14.1 to 14.8 while running. usually 14.1 to 14.4 but after a few more cold start cranks than normal i will see 14.8v for a bit. so my pump running at 11.5 vs 14.1 reduced fuel flow. not your issue but worth checking if there's a v drop??I don't believe I have the issue but will check.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2019, 11:43:40 AM »
mine is a 1:1 reg. i will have to turn it on and look at the gauge again to know for sure i do know it dropped it more than i thought it should.

it would be interesting to know how fast controls inj's w/o knowing dead times or flow rates. must be a pre set dead time setting and you just input what size inj's ? this of course is not your fuel psi issue just my curiosity on the system.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2019, 01:11:53 PM »
FAST has differing levels of their EFI. The ones that use the 8 injector throttle bodies all use the same 74# injectors so I believe they have that info programmed into the software. For the top of the line system that allows the use of whatever injectors wanted I am sure the info is input to the software as with your system.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: Soooooo How To Stop The Waterworks
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2019, 03:31:59 PM »
hmmmm interesting.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience