Author Topic: turbo selection  (Read 5048 times)

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Offline dsrace

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turbo selection
« on: November 22, 2018, 11:17:27 AM »
playing with the match bot calculator on borgwarners site. comparing 6258 vs 6758

so i think i should narrow down where i want/need my power band. looking back at my logs and having driven both ls and st a sand dunes, 2k to 4500 rpm is where i play. 5k to (current rev limit) 6200 rpm is rare and short lived as in 2 to 4 secs at best.  there is no room to run wot at 5 to 6k rpm with time to stop and maneuver around/away from people that have no depth perception. not sure if that problem is dna based or brown bottle flu but sure are a lot of them at the oklahoma dunes these days!

i say this as i adjusted the rpm points on this borgwarner match bot to target 2k to 4500 for my application. i have no issue dropping to 10 to 15 psi boost ( safer) at 5k and 6k rpm. at those rpm's this motor makes more than enough power to hold ground speed w/o issue. when we roll over the dune peaks diagonally we may spike 4.5/5k rpm or better for the top 30' just to hop off the peak to make the transition. once at the peak you have to let off the throttle as to not go sky diving down the back side. at this point i may be down to 2k/2500 rpm then need to rapidly accel again. no matter if i go to a 4 speed trans to drop gearing a bit or not, i have a comfort zone with ground speed. slightly deeper gearing would be for take off and accel but not to run higher rpms for more ground speed, but rather to maintain a comfortable ground speed with less throttle input for better control in those rpm ranges.

so this is why i think the borg warner efr 6258 seems better than the 6758..... opinions?

















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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2018, 11:21:51 AM »
so best i can tell right now my megasand 3 speed is a 9.79 1st, 7.39 2nd and 5.75 3rd.
if i go to a 2d 4 speed i will pick 13.5/14 1st, 9.95/10.2 2nd 7.90 3rd and 5.65? 4th for a high rpm  bbyb gear? ( blow by your buddy)  :D

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Offline fabr

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2018, 08:30:42 PM »
It is highly driver preference. I like to run around 1/2 redline normally no matter what I'm driving . Doesn't matter if it's a high strung 2 stroke,a busa, a go kart(YXZ  :m) or a big ol' V8.  I like having the extra rpm on tap. You know,when in doubt - power out stuff.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2018, 09:19:49 PM »
did you measure the shocks on the yxz?   

i am right there with ya on half throttle anymore. enemy can attest to that lol. i used to love ringing out the bike rpms but for some reason i have decided i like a 2k to 3k rpm bower band that does it all with a 1500 to 2k rpm band left on tap. now when discussing this on the turbo 2.3 forums they only know racing and dont understand this. big surprise huh well everyone says the 1st turbo is too small in will be happier with the 2nd. 1st is 6258 and 2nd 6758. the 6758 is better suited for 3 to 6k rpm as seen in the map and the 1st is better suited for 2k to 4500 /5k rpm. i can run to 6200 easy enough and seldom exceed 4500 according to my data logs as well at 50 to 60% tps lol  current turbo isnt real responsive with my gearing until 3/3500rpm is faster mph than i pre fer. deeper gearing solve this and runs $7500. this efr turbo would set me back $1700 and be capable of producing 5 to 10 psi  by 1800 rpm and 20 to 28 psi from 2500 or so to 5k rpm. 20 at 6k and 15 safely at 6500 rpm.  as seen in the pics above.

this is why i posted the info.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 09:22:03 PM by dsrace »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2018, 07:50:10 AM »
Most hi perf guys/articles/beginners only look for max HP with little to no concern for true drivability. That's fine if all you do is drag race. Not worth a shit if the car has to be drivable/powerful at anything less than WOT. Ya gotta ignore,as I think you are now, those that only look at WOT numbers.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2018, 07:52:12 AM »
yep! that's why i have switched back to the 6258 as i can run the higher boost at a more common/widely used rpm range that i already know i run at. it's hard to discuss this with those guys. they have experience and knowledge on the parts and set up but as you said, wot only.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2018, 07:59:38 AM »
i will say that i do understand where there coming from, higher rpm builds more hp from these motors and equals more ground speed but i already have the ground speed from running the higher rpm because i have the turbo that builds boost in the higher rpm range  ;)
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2018, 08:07:56 AM »
yep! that's why i have switched back to the 6258 as i can run the higher boost at a more common/widely used rpm range that i already know i run at. it's hard to discuss this with those guys. they have experience and knowledge on the parts and set up but as you said, wot only.
The drag race performance guys can be equated to the CVT sxs guys. Only thing that matters is WOT. I would bet maybe 1 in a hundred have a clue how to build to a very wide,flat torque curve from mid rpm to redline.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2018, 08:09:47 AM »
yep! that's why i have switched back to the 6258 as i can run the higher boost at a more common/widely used rpm range that i already know i run at. it's hard to discuss this with those guys. they have experience and knowledge on the parts and set up but as you said, wot only.
We have a winner!!!
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2018, 07:07:37 PM »
did you measure the shocks on the yxz?   

i am right there with ya on half throttle anymore. enemy can attest to that lol. i used to love ringing out the bike rpms but for some reason i have decided i like a 2k to 3k rpm bower band that does it all with a 1500 to 2k rpm band left on tap. now when discussing this on the turbo 2.3 forums they only know racing and dont understand this. big surprise huh well everyone says the 1st turbo is too small in will be happier with the 2nd. 1st is 6258 and 2nd 6758. the 6758 is better suited for 3 to 6k rpm as seen in the map and the 1st is better suited for 2k to 4500 /5k rpm. i can run to 6200 easy enough and seldom exceed 4500 according to my data logs as well at 50 to 60% tps lol  current turbo isnt real responsive with my gearing until 3/3500rpm is faster mph than i pre fer. deeper gearing solve this and runs $7500. this efr turbo would set me back $1700 and be capable of producing 5 to 10 psi  by 1800 rpm and 20 to 28 psi from 2500 or so to 5k rpm. 20 at 6k and 15 safely at 6500 rpm.  as seen in the pics above.

this is why i posted the info.
I was changing all the paddles to knobbys today and it slipped my mind. Will try to not forget tomorrow. We're going to terrorize the countryside since it's going to be sunny and 70ish. I did look at the shocks though. 3 have fox performance series that have the same high/low speed compression adjustability with just high speed bump adjustment. 1 has the dual rate spring package on the X2 as you posted. IMO,either would work as well as or better than the ones that are just adjustable with shim pack changes. These can still have different shim packs but with the added external adjustability. I haven't played with adjusting them yet so I have no idea how much of a range the external adjustments will have.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 09:28:48 AM »
6258 efr with my info

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.4&displacement=2.324&CID=141.81047999999998&altitude=1400&baro=14.135&aat=85&fueltype=3&turboconfig=1&compressor=62k80&pt1_rpm=2000&pt1_ve=85&pt1_boost=8&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.08&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.5&pt1_ce=58&pt1_te=75&pt1_egt=1450&pt1_ter=1.36&pt1_pw=2.64&pt1_bsfc=0.62&pt1_afr=9&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=2500&pt2_ve=90&pt2_boost=24&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=1&pt2_ce=62&pt2_te=73&pt2_egt=1550&pt2_ter=2.05&pt2_pw=6.43&pt2_bsfc=0.65&pt2_afr=8.5&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=3000&pt3_ve=95&pt3_boost=24&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=1.3&pt3_ce=67&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=2.18&pt3_pw=18.02&pt3_bsfc=0.69&pt3_afr=8&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=4000&pt4_ve=95&pt4_boost=26&pt4_ie=92&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=1.5&pt4_ce=74&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=2.47&pt4_pw=33.8&pt4_bsfc=0.72&pt4_afr=8&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=4500&pt5_ve=94&pt5_boost=28&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=1.8&pt5_ce=76&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=2.69&pt5_pw=36.15&pt5_bsfc=0.75&pt5_afr=8&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=5000&pt6_ve=92&pt6_boost=26&pt6_ie=90&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=2&pt6_ce=75&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=2.69&pt6_pw=38.26&pt6_bsfc=0.79&pt6_afr=8&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 09:29:18 AM »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 09:30:50 AM »
the tq diff vs rpm vs boost pressure is amazing between the two compressors. same hot sides just diff cold side.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 10:20:49 AM »
just amazing. for comparison i looked at my data log of the last night ride at LS. ilding/curising along at low rpm then giving it 34 to 40%% tps i only see 1 psi boost ( via map sensor through tuner studio) by 2k rpm roughly. so according the bw calculator , i can safely achieve 8 psi by 2 k rpm which is a 68ft lb tq increase from current, that's HUGE!
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo selection
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 12:07:22 PM »
ain't science cool?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)