Author Topic: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????  (Read 5422 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #135 on: May 07, 2018, 10:26:39 AM »
other than flat forgetting to fully tq the hard to get ones.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Offline fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #136 on: May 07, 2018, 10:51:41 AM »
Aw,c'mon. You guys should be smarter than me. I feel pretty stupid right now so it should be easy.  Anyway,here it is. There are 17 head bolts on a SBC. One row of 8 short ones under the header,one mid row of 5 under the spring seats and the 3rd row of 4 under the intake runners that require an extension adapter to torque. Never before did I try what I did this time. Never again will I make the same mistake.What I did was to use 2 torque wrenches to save time/effort. BIG MISTAKE. Upon disassembly I found the gaskets were both compressed to the .051 thickness spec in the area of the bolts that are not under the intake runners.In the area  along the 4 under the runners the gasket was only compressed to .054. Obviously the 2 wrenches did not play well together. Slight different calibration between them . What is bad is that I KNEW better than to do it with 2 different tq. wrenches. Stupid is as stupid does.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #137 on: May 07, 2018, 10:52:33 AM »
other than flat forgetting to fully tq the hard to get ones.
nope,when done I ,without fail ,run over all one last time. Same goes for all mains and rods. Just insurance against at least one form of stupid.  :m
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:26:13 AM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #138 on: May 07, 2018, 11:18:03 AM »
The wire fire ring also had the same .003 difference in the thickness as the body of the gasket. Only cause would be the difference in calibration of the 2 tq. wrenches used.  .003 doesn't sound like much but when the total compression is only approx .010 that is approx a 30% less gasket crush in the area of the failure. Lesson learned at many $$$$ cost.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online budlight69

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #139 on: May 07, 2018, 11:34:25 AM »
so the real issue is "Your torque wrenches weren't calibrated for SHIT"   5:   :m

Offline fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #140 on: May 07, 2018, 12:37:10 PM »
The kicker is that none are . +/- 2 percent is pretty much the standard
of repeatability. There'ss plenty of evidence HF tq wrenches are as good as and many times better than the so called good stuff. I don't own a HF Wrench but it is tempting.  LMAO Bottom line though is that I violated the unwritten rule against using more than one tq wrench to do a job given the variances between even calibrated wrenches.  I have 3 that were certified every 2 years when I was doing this for an income but have not been recertified for about 15 years now.  This was totally my fault for using 2 wrenches on the same job. Lesson learned. I post this stuff so hopefully I prevent at least one other person making a similar mistake.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #141 on: May 07, 2018, 01:18:47 PM »
Wow crazy lesson to learn.  30% less is like forgetting to do last toque seq on them bolts.  This is why I don't have 2 torque wrenches.
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Offline fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #142 on: May 07, 2018, 01:27:51 PM »
Yup,lesson learned for sure. I've ordered a digital torque cell to verify my wrenches accuracy/repeatability. I'm thinking it will be interesting to say the least. 
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #143 on: May 07, 2018, 01:34:39 PM »
there is nothing wrong with hf tq wrenches! i keep ft and in lbs in my th`er and have never had a lug nut on the rail come loose lol  i can see the issue there but surprised it happened that quick. good that it did rather than the alternative on the sand.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: Water,Water Everywhere or WTF??????
« Reply #144 on: May 07, 2018, 07:49:43 PM »
WOW!!! All I can say is WOW!!!!!! I couldn't wait so I made a bonzai run to Tulsa to pick up a strain gauge to test my tq.wrenches accuracy (fooking lack of!!) I did 10 pulls as consistent as possible. Both wrenches I used actually were fairly consistent to each other. Consistent,NOT accurate.

Wrench one-10 pulls high/low/ avg. were 64.9/62.8/63.8 within +/- 2%
Wrench two-10 pulls high/low/ avg. were 64.9/62.1/63.6 outside +/- 2%

 6 pounds less than indicated on wrench. Add to that the .78 extension correction factor and the 4 studs in question had even less clamping load on the gaskets.

From now on I will use the load cell to accurately calibrate/synchronize my torque wrenches before torquing on heads . A bit more PITA  but so is pulling the thing out and fixing the damn thing.

Moral to this is that even if your torque wrenches have been calibrated/certified shortly before you put them away for any amount of time they NEED to be checked before any serious / critical torquing.

Here is a shot of the certification of the load cell and the cell. Anyone recognize it? 

Using the load cell I can now verify what the correction factor is. All I need to do is set the cell at 70 and set each wrench to what is needed to hit the target. That means I can have my cake and eat it too!!! 2 wrenches,one with the extension ,both calibrated to click off at 70 regardless of what they read. Cool!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 09:42:16 AM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)