Author Topic: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion  (Read 20073 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #420 on: September 04, 2017, 01:34:42 PM »
I don't recall over there but did you get your answer what,if any,optional gear ratios you have available?

nope still haven't heard back so this winter may be a change altogether on trans. he said he has r&p sets but wasn't sure which ratios and that he would check and get back to me. crazy part is doug has same gear ratios as i. supposedly he may have 4.86 r&p which would be 2 steps deeper than my 4.43.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #421 on: September 04, 2017, 01:35:30 PM »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #422 on: September 04, 2017, 01:36:59 PM »
I can only guess that when these guys discuss at the valve and at the cam they are not starting their degreeing at either .020 or .050 cam lift. That could be why he is seeing 20 degrees difference. The clearance ramps can be vastly different between cams and that is why the .020 and .050 became the standard.Eventually,most people I know went to lobe centerlines to further define cam timing since opening/closing  numbers can be misleading when considering where max valve lift occurs. 

After you have fixed all mechanical issues you have such as air leaks and overall gearing then tuned it as best it can be if you are still unsatisfied I'd take his advice on the cam regrind. I agree with him on that for sure.

wessk and stinger are the ones that put the base fuel and timing maps together.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #423 on: September 04, 2017, 01:47:18 PM »
well i just retarded the timing 3* and no noticeable change on take off, audible change in sound of exhaust. i did advance it once and saw no diff but will do it again in a few mins  and see.

was watching the afr gauge and under boost i saw 11.5 to 12 then let off to level out so basically very low to off boost the gauge read 15.9 15. cannot find a leak even tried shooting windex on the joints on cold start up and warmed up.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 01:49:41 PM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #424 on: September 04, 2017, 02:30:53 PM »
ok so set back to 0 mark and advanced 4*.....exh sounds right again and no huge diff in take off. def better than retarding the cam!
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Offline fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #425 on: September 04, 2017, 05:06:37 PM »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #426 on: September 04, 2017, 05:10:00 PM »
well i just retarded the timing 3* and no noticeable change on take off, audible change in sound of exhaust. i did advance it once and saw no diff but will do it again in a few mins  and see.

was watching the afr gauge and under boost i saw 11.5 to 12 then let off to level out so basically very low to off boost the gauge read 15.9 15. cannot find a leak even tried shooting windex on the joints on cold start up and warmed up.
Do the unlit propane torch thing to make absolutely sure. Watch the afr while car is idling. Any spikes will show a leak.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #427 on: September 04, 2017, 05:23:15 PM »
ok so set back to 0 mark and advanced 4*.....exh sounds right again and no huge diff in take off. def better than retarding the cam!
This was mentioned in the other thread and caught my attention as well as the responder. That is bass akwards.  If it were me,I know I would get a real degree wheel on the crank and verify there is not an issue with the cam lobes indexing to the key/dowel/whatever. If you can't get cam degree card to agree with what you find then there is your problem. That would advance/retard your cam perhaps a lot and be a plausible cause of your issues. Advancing the cam and possibly slightly seeing an improvement in take off would possibly indicate a way retarded cam and advancing it makes it more "right" and makes me think it is very possible. It's rare but it can happen since the cam ,if checked in QC, will likely only verify valve events of intake lobe in relation to the exhaust lobe. Rare,but anything is possible. Along that line of thought,is there any remote possibility the cam is installed one tooth off? Rare also,but anything is possible,we're human.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #428 on: September 04, 2017, 05:34:06 PM »
well i just retarded the timing 3* and no noticeable change on take off, audible change in sound of exhaust. i did advance it once and saw no diff but will do it again in a few mins  and see.

was watching the afr gauge and under boost i saw 11.5 to 12 then let off to level out so basically very low to off boost the gauge read 15.9 15. cannot find a leak even tried shooting windex on the joints on cold start up and warmed up.
How far from end of exhaust outlet is your O2 sensor?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #429 on: September 04, 2017, 06:54:03 PM »
How far from end of exhaust outlet is your O2 sensor?

10.5" and 3.5 od pipe
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #430 on: September 04, 2017, 07:07:19 PM »
big pipe,close to the end=O2 reverting into pipe. Can you move it a lot further up?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #431 on: September 04, 2017, 07:20:27 PM »
This was mentioned in the other thread and caught my attention as well as the responder. That is bass akwards.  If it were me,I know I would get a real degree wheel on the crank and verify there is not an issue with the cam lobes indexing to the key/dowel/whatever. If you can't get cam degree card to agree with what you find then there is your problem. That would advance/retard your cam perhaps a lot and be a plausible cause of your issues. Advancing the cam and possibly slightly seeing an improvement in take off would possibly indicate a way retarded cam and advancing it makes it more "right" and makes me think it is very possible. It's rare but it can happen since the cam ,if checked in QC, will likely only verify valve events of intake lobe in relation to the exhaust lobe. Rare,but anything is possible. Along that line of thought,is there any remote possibility the cam is installed one tooth off? Rare also,but anything is possible,we're human.

i am positive it is not one tooth off. i even marked the belt and gear to easily make sure the belt didn't slip. i used a an end caliper with magnetic base and extension to cyl 1. found the beggining and end of tdc, rock over if you want to call it. measured between the marks and set tdc at that point and then zero'd out the cam using the method as speedway described which can be found on stinger, turbo ford etc etc. anything is possible but i have my doubts.

on another note i can tell you that advancing the cam 8* sounds like retarding it 3* .......come to find out each mark on the cam gear is 2 * not 1. when i bought this aluminum adjustable round tooth timing gear set the ad said adjustable in 1* increments. well per the instructions.....each mark is 2* so not sure which one is correct! also all cam websites say advance to increase bottom end and retard for top so i think speedway got that part wrong. before i realized this a couple weeks before st a trip ( the timing marks that is) i did start the motor and run it twice. not 7k rpm pulls just runs.  so anyways i can say that at 8* it makes the exh sound just like when retarded 3* so at 0 to 4* advnced is the better area.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #432 on: September 04, 2017, 07:23:59 PM »
big pipe,close to the end=O2 reverting into pipe. Can you move it a lot further up?


i have to build a new pipe anyway so i can try but 02 instructions says 18" apprx away from turbo. so where i couldn't go 18" i went about half way. it worked fine up till st a trip then made a change to the tune and it all changed. just got the turbo and dp off and it does look like the internal winding of the flex coupler may have seperated in one spot but since it was thermal coated inside and out it's hard to see.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #433 on: September 04, 2017, 07:48:15 PM »
i am positive it is not one tooth off. i even marked the belt and gear to easily make sure the belt didn't slip. i used a an end caliper with magnetic base and extension to cyl 1. found the beggining and end of tdc, rock over if you want to call it. measured between the marks and set tdc at that point and then zero'd out the cam using the method as speedway described which can be found on stinger, turbo ford etc etc. anything is possible but i have my doubts.

on another note i can tell you that advancing the cam 8* sounds like retarding it 3* .......come to find out each mark on the cam gear is 2 * not 1. when i bought this aluminum adjustable round tooth timing gear set the ad said adjustable in 1* increments. well per the instructions.....each mark is 2* so not sure which one is correct! also all cam websites say advance to increase bottom end and retard for top so i think speedway got that part wrong. before i realized this a couple weeks before st a trip ( the timing marks that is) i did start the motor and run it twice. not 7k rpm pulls just runs.  so anyways i can say that at 8* it makes the exh sound just like when retarded 3* so at 0 to 4* advnced is the better area.
This is correct as per industry common practice.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #434 on: September 04, 2017, 08:08:38 PM »
well then there ad is misleading but know now. also 8* advanced doesn't do any good infact a little worse lol

on another note enemy has been doing a good job tuning this for me. barley got a safe afr tune down before the st a trip and figured we would do some more while there but afr's started changing very slightly until the last day after a data log and auto tune then was off quite a bit. so he's going to put previous tune in and see what that does just to be sure. i'm going to swap the turbo with this cam and see what it does. this turbonetics t3/t4 has a .68 ar but smaller exh wheel and housing but is a 50 trim like the stock garrett which i do have as well. also have a .48 ar exh for this turbo to try as well before i swap the cam,
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience