Author Topic: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion  (Read 20597 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #390 on: September 02, 2017, 08:58:23 AM »
cam card from delta cams and the cam i may consider from the offroad ranger guy username mavereq


btw the guy at delta believes that even though i set mine up at 0 that it may be retarded a bit to hit 7k rpm but that with the lack of info on the card i would need to sent it in or degree it to ever know for sure. he also said that the higher comp makes it even harder to understand why i'm 1k rpm short of where i should be starting to make power even factoring incorrect turbo choice. again didn't know at that time that actual duration could be 20* longer than engle cam card states . i said to him well maybe i'll sell this one and buy one of yours.....like the one i'm posing. his response was .....i would be happy to sell you one but no need to do so yet but rather let me draw up a set up sheet for your current cam since engle did not provide one which they should of. thats when he got frustrated with the lack of info off the card. that is true customer service imo!

« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 09:24:14 AM by dsrace »
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Online fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #391 on: September 02, 2017, 09:52:40 AM »
e80 the last tank to be exact. MS and Tuner Studio use a "required fuel" settings to set the STOICH value of the fuel being run, in this case around 10.1
This is how it is done to easily run e85 +or - and still use gas targets on target maps and wide band readouts. Many detailed write-ups on the subject
I completely understand that. I mean that even if it was on gas with those readings it is a bit lean,IMO.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #392 on: September 02, 2017, 10:05:21 AM »
if that is a screen shot of my current map you cannot go off that. the last day there my afr started reading lean. i changed the o2 sensor then fuel filter and no change. i unplugged the vac line to rising reg and sits at a solid 44 psi until i free rev it to 2k rpm then jumps 4 to 5 psi and afr gauge shows enrichment as well. not sure if that pump or the reg are to blame but one is taking a crap with less then 5o miles on it. but went from sightly rich to lean. before that it was a rock solid 13.5 to 14 at idle and correct off idle. i parked it and didn't care at that point!
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Online fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #393 on: September 02, 2017, 04:14:43 PM »
if that is a screen shot of my current map you cannot go off that. the last day there my afr started reading lean. i changed the o2 sensor then fuel filter and no change. i unplugged the vac line to rising reg and sits at a solid 44 psi until i free rev it to 2k rpm then jumps 4 to 5 psi and afr gauge shows enrichment as well. not sure if that pump or the reg are to blame but one is taking a crap with less then 5o miles on it. but went from sightly rich to lean. before that it was a rock solid 13.5 to 14 at idle and correct off idle. i parked it and didn't care at that point!
With that cam,it's too lean.  12.5-8 would be more like it. WOT around 12.8 as well. Maybe in the 13+ range for light throttle cruising. Just my .02.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #394 on: September 03, 2017, 09:17:08 AM »
With that cam,it's too lean.  12.5-8 would be more like it. WOT around 12.8 as well. Maybe in the 13+ range for light throttle cruising. Just my .02.

on e85 or e80 in my case? under boost needs to be richer.
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Offline Enemy

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #395 on: September 03, 2017, 09:47:36 AM »
With that cam,it's too lean.  12.5-8 would be more like it. WOT around 12.8 as well. Maybe in the 13+ range for light throttle cruising. Just my .02.
12.8 at WOT is asking for devastation at the upper kpa. 12.5 is the lean limit and I won't even dance around it, not worth the risk. 130-300kpa its is commanded a much richer 12.2 pulling down to 11.4. Very safe fueling under boost.  Light cruise is in the mid 13's. Idle arf's very so much on these little motors, ya find a good ve it seems to "like" and transition well from, then move on. Depends on the nastiness of the cam I suppose. My Ranger with the Bo2.1 cam loves to idle clean around 13.9-14.2. And I highway cruise the flats at 14.7-14.9. Different load on a different animal though..
Regardless, this tune is getting mostly scrapped for a completely new combo anyway lol
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Online fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #396 on: September 03, 2017, 10:53:08 AM »
Bottom line,it's too lean off boost/under 3000 rpm where it's lack of power is occurring. I see lots of quite lean cells for that cam. Again,just my opinion. We all agree from what is being reported that it's fine under boost at this point so that's not part of this discussion. Just my .02. When the timing and fueling is right there is no reason the combo he has lacks all bottom end performance as is described here with the cam I see on the spec sheet . Back when I was doing the high perf machine shop stuff there were several guys running these motors with bigger yet cams and somehow they were fine performing daily drivers. They were n/a motors. Oh well,good luck with the new combo and hope to see you guys in Oct @ LS.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #397 on: September 03, 2017, 11:08:13 AM »
Just to be clear of the area I am saying is too lean for the cam I just squared off the general area I feel is just too lean. Just the general area that is all off boost. When I said WOT,I was not meaning under boost WOT. I am only addressing the off boost area where he has no power.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #398 on: September 03, 2017, 09:46:30 PM »
hope to see you on the sand as well!

i am out of my element reading those charts but at those rpms where it shows an afr of 14.7 or such that is at very low load which i think would coincide with tps %. i don't see ever being that low at those rpms. we could set them at 13.0 across the board down low in those load ranges, def won't hurt anything. i do know while enemy was adjusting the fuel at idle and above while sitting in my garage that this cam wanted more fuel or richer  than leaner levels. spent the day mowing and trimming branches and weed eating so nothing got done on the rail. i did turn the rail on and i think i have a hole in the flex coupler. that may be why the afr 3 went way off all of a sudden at st a dunes. doesn't matter i am changing the turbo anyway which will require a new down pipe. i will pull a plug and snap a photo with a real camera tomorrow.
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Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #399 on: September 03, 2017, 09:47:28 PM »
enemy you should post up a copy of steves tune to show how much sooner boost comes in like dougs rail vs mine.
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Online fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #400 on: September 03, 2017, 11:13:02 PM »
hope to see you on the sand as well!

i am out of my element reading those charts but at those rpms where it shows an afr of 14.7 or such that is at very low load which i think would coincide with tps %. i don't see ever being that low at those rpms. we could set them at 13.0 across the board down low in those load ranges, def won't hurt anything. i do know while enemy was adjusting the fuel at idle and above while sitting in my garage that this cam wanted more fuel or richer  than leaner levels. spent the day mowing and trimming branches and weed eating so nothing got um done on the rail. i did turn the rail on and i think i have a hole in the flex coupler. that may be why the afr 3 went way off all of a sudden at st a dunes. doesn't matter i am changing the turbo anyway which will require a new down pipe. i will pull a plug and snap a photo with a real camera tomorrow.
Anything below 100 kpa is vacuum. You have not told me what your idle vacuum is. It is likely in the range of at least 70kpa and hopefully 50 or less. Anything below the level of your actual vacuum is irrelevant. That said ,yes the lower 2 lines (maybe even the 3rd and 4th) are nothing to consider and shouldn't have been boxed in. . All the 13+ afr's up to 100kpa are ,IMO ,way too lean for your cam.I'd back down to maybe 12.8 or so to start with. Did you set your initial timing with a vacuum gauge? If not,you need to . Set initial to where you get highest vacuum at idle.  This will help low rpm/take off from stop torque greatly.Then set your all in timing to where boost starts hitting maybe 135kpa and then ,as it appears you are now doing, begin pulling timing.

 Plug pic needs to be of a new plug,warmed up engine ,make a full throttle run to top end(or as fast as you feel safe),cut ignition,coast to stop,pull plug,take pic. I would want to see where the timing mark is on the side electrode.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 12:10:31 AM by fabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #401 on: September 04, 2017, 08:01:07 AM »
Search:
There is a search box in the top right corner of TunerStudio that allows you to search for settings you may not be able to locate on your own.


Feature Explanation:
If you put your mouse pointer on the blue "?" next to each setting in TunerStudio, after a second a box pops up that explains what that setting does.


Convert Load % (kPa) to PSI:
You can use this calculator to convert MAP sensor kPa values to PSI (gauge):

www.endmemo.com/cconvert/psigkpa.php

PSI to kPa (Load %) conversion at sea level:
 1 PSIG = 108 kPa
 2 PSIG = 115 kPa
 3 PSIG = 122 kPa
 4 PSIG = 129 kPa
 5 PSIG = 136 kPa
 6 PSIG = 142 kPa
 7 PSIG = 149 kPa
 8 PSIG = 156 kPa
 9 PSIG = 163 kPa
10 PSIG = 170 kPa
11 PSIG = 177 kPa
12 PSIG = 184 kPa
13 PSIG = 191 kPa
14 PSIG = 198 kPa
15 PSIG = 204 kPa
16 PSIG = 211 kPa
17 PSIG = 218 kPa
18 PSIG = 225 kPa
19 PSIG = 232 kPa
20 PSIG = 239 kPa
21 PSIG = 246 kPa
22 PSIG = 253 kPa
23 PSIG = 260 kPa
24 PSIG = 266 kPa
25 PSIG = 273 kPa
26 PSIG = 280 kPa
27 PSIG = 287 kPa
28 PSIG = 294 kPa
29 PSIG = 301 kPa
30 PSIG = 308 kPa
31 PSIG = 315 kPa
32 PSIG = 322 kPa
33 PSIG = 329 kPa
34 PSIG = 335 kPa
35 PSIG = 342 kPa
36 PSIG = 349 kPa
37 PSIG = 356 kPa
38 PSIG = 363 kPa
39 PSIG = 370 kPa
40 PSIG = 377 kPa
More Coming Soon
Last Edit: Mar 22, 2016 at 10:59pm by Stinger
www.Stinger-Performance.com

Read more: http://stinger-performance.proboards.com/thread/5013/pimpx-pimpxs-faq-frequently-asked#ixzz4ricFA300
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #402 on: September 04, 2017, 08:19:11 AM »
so the one time i saw the vac gauge on tuner studio it read 15" vac. now that was a fresh motor with 0 runtime. i don't know current vac at idle. so i'm pulling the turbo today so plug pics that way are out. i believe i have a hole in the flex coupler on dp 2 to 4" above my 02 sensor.

when you say set timing where vac is highest....do you mean electronic timing advance through tuner studio? other wise there isn't a way to do so while the engine is running. i don't have a distributor.  that timing map comes in stingers flash drive for base maps. we have not altered that timing map at all as it is a safe timing map. stinger says to add timing down low in the low rpm cells for take off. he said that is the strategy used on auto trans as they don't have the ability to rev rpms on take off like a manual. again part of this issue is my gearing i know this but on the same note i took off in 2nd gear in dougs and steves.....1 to 2 psi boost comes in quick and those rails take off no issue after that, mine is over a 1000 rpm later in the rpm band.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
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Online fabr

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #403 on: September 04, 2017, 08:39:17 AM »
Search:
There is a search box in the top right corner of TunerStudio that allows you to search for settings you may not be able to locate on your own.


Feature Explanation:
If you put your mouse pointer on the blue "?" next to each setting in TunerStudio, after a second a box pops up that explains what that setting does.


Convert Load % (kPa) to PSI:
You can use this calculator to convert MAP sensor kPa values to PSI (gauge):

www.endmemo.com/cconvert/psigkpa.php

PSI to kPa (Load %) conversion at sea level:
 1 PSIG = 108 kPa
 2 PSIG = 115 kPa
 3 PSIG = 122 kPa
 4 PSIG = 129 kPa
 5 PSIG = 136 kPa
 6 PSIG = 142 kPa
 7 PSIG = 149 kPa
 8 PSIG = 156 kPa
 9 PSIG = 163 kPa
10 PSIG = 170 kPa
11 PSIG = 177 kPa
12 PSIG = 184 kPa
13 PSIG = 191 kPa
14 PSIG = 198 kPa
15 PSIG = 204 kPa
16 PSIG = 211 kPa
17 PSIG = 218 kPa
18 PSIG = 225 kPa
19 PSIG = 232 kPa
20 PSIG = 239 kPa
21 PSIG = 246 kPa
22 PSIG = 253 kPa
23 PSIG = 260 kPa
24 PSIG = 266 kPa
25 PSIG = 273 kPa
26 PSIG = 280 kPa
27 PSIG = 287 kPa
28 PSIG = 294 kPa
29 PSIG = 301 kPa
30 PSIG = 308 kPa
31 PSIG = 315 kPa
32 PSIG = 322 kPa
33 PSIG = 329 kPa
34 PSIG = 335 kPa
35 PSIG = 342 kPa
36 PSIG = 349 kPa
37 PSIG = 356 kPa
38 PSIG = 363 kPa
39 PSIG = 370 kPa
40 PSIG = 377 kPa
More Coming Soon
Last Edit: Mar 22, 2016 at 10:59pm by Stinger
www.Stinger-Performance.com

Read more: http://stinger-performance.proboards.com/thread/5013/pimpx-pimpxs-faq-frequently-asked#ixzz4ricFA300
I have cheat sheets with all the conversions. I'm used to psi and vacuum. I'm used to AFR ratios . I'm getting used to kpa and lambda,still need the cheat sheets though. If we would all get used to kpa and lambda we would have a lot less confusion when discussing tunes no matter the fuel used.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: turbo 1300 to turbo 2300 conversion
« Reply #404 on: September 04, 2017, 08:44:23 AM »
i agree and am trying to learn but i got enough mind warps going on lol jon speaks that language though. the ecu, in the setting selected, recalculates stoich to lamba for my afr based on alcohol content for afr reading for me. i do not have the flex sensor active for the ecu to make changes based on that yet. once tuned then closed loop can be selected and flex can command changes.
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience