Author Topic: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.  (Read 8358 times)

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Online fabr

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2016, 05:59:04 AM »
You talking about the spacer between the cv cup and the cv? If so,what did that do to your plunge numbers?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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Offline dsrace

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2016, 09:35:01 AM »
axle looks a lot more parallel with a arm and yes what fabr asked....what are plunge #'s going to be as a result or will they change? also with that spacer will this get you to an even # on axle length? gets it a lot closer to lining up with the pivot points
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline jersdunz

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2016, 10:31:33 AM »
axle looks a lot more parallel with a arm and yes what fabr asked....what are plunge #'s going to be as a result or will they change? also with that spacer will this get you to an even # on axle length? gets it a lot closer to lining up with the pivot points

Nothing changes but the location of the pivots there relationships to each other remain identical.
it simply moves the axle and the hub assembly out the inch.
by moving the axle stub and housing out, and the pivots in,  (circled in red)
all geometry is left alone.. just gained clearance for more travel angle.
Now if I could just get those parts at a cheaper price...

Online fabr

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2016, 10:54:36 AM »
Does your cad do motion simulation? Not arguing,just asking ,+ but m
have you verified the changes did not alter the geometry. I'm looking at it on my phone so I may not be seeing something.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2016, 11:53:54 AM »
the spacer will stand the axle a slight amount up higher the diff i saw in the drawing is because the a arms are not connected to the pivots at carrier on left as they are on right in the pic.just for grins and giggles draw a line through the centers of the pivot points on the carrier and frame and through the cv's at the same angle of the pivot points. and measure distance from those two lines
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2016, 12:10:15 PM »
the spacer will stand the axle a slight amount up higher the diff i saw in the drawing is because the a arms are not connected to the pivots at carrier on left as they are on right in the pic.just for grins and giggles draw a line through the centers of the pivot points on the carrier and frame and through the cv's at the same angle of the pivot points. and measure distance from those two lines
This number must be same.

What parts are you needing for less?  I may know a guy(or girl ;)) who knows a guy?
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Online fabr

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2016, 06:07:26 PM »
Am I seeing it right? At full droop you are going positive camber? That is not good. If you have modeled this suspension llike that ,and then calculated plunge,based on that geometry,you will likely find that the plunge will change significantly if you align the rear later to remove the positive camber at full droop. If I am looking at it right I would suggest you model it again with corrected camber at full droop, design the pivot locations on frame and hub plate to give a good camber curve ,all based on the centerline of the cv's. I would ditch the thought of using a spacer ,IMO.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online fabr

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2016, 06:09:24 PM »
I assume the p[ositive camber at full droop was to allow a bit more travel? Personally,I'd keep the good geometry regardless of travel. Just my .02 tho.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Yummi

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2016, 07:56:43 PM »
I assume the p[ositive camber at full droop was to allow a bit more travel? Personally,I'd keep the good geometry regardless of travel. Just my .02 tho.

You are not alone in that thought.  Besides bragging rights, that extra 1" of travel is not needed.  Harder to overcome bad design than lack of total travel.  Usable is the goal.
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Offline jersdunz

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2016, 08:36:34 PM »
I assume the p[ositive camber at full droop was to allow a bit more travel? Personally,I'd keep the good geometry regardless of travel. Just my .02 tho.

I added 1" on the vertical spacing to the outer hubs. the intent wasn't for travel it was so the hub wouldn't roll in on its self at full droop. In this latest mock up i changed it from 1" to 1/4" to minimize the plunge it was around 3/8"
before i installed the rpm. I think that change bumped it up to about 3/4" or so. I have put lots of hours on this rear drive in 2 chassis and it handles really good. I have always managed to keep it wheels down.

Offline jersdunz

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2016, 08:38:31 PM »
You are not alone in that thought.  Besides bragging rights, that extra 1" of travel is not needed.  Harder to overcome bad design than lack of total travel.  Usable is the goal.

I'll keep my bragging rights simple and short...
My buggy breaks all the damn time.. But i'm still 35 minutes away from st.A

lol

Offline dsrace

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2016, 09:31:55 PM »
if you don't want to re do the whole thing as i think you saying  ;D then if you could atleast pitch the tabs the a arms mount to at the wheel to match the offset of the frame side it would be better. how hard would it be to weld new ones on the wheel bearing carriers? the spacer at the top gets you out closer to that pivot but just curious with the spacers how far you would have to adjust it at the wheel side to match it? i'm guessing from the pic your 1.75" in from pivot on the frame side with spacer?
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Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Offline jersdunz

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2016, 09:52:43 PM »
if you don't want to re do the whole thing as i think you saying  ;D then if you could atleast pitch the tabs the a arms mount to at the wheel to match the offset of the frame side it would be better. how hard would it be to weld new ones on the wheel bearing carriers? the spacer at the top gets you out closer to that pivot but just curious with the spacers how far you would have to adjust it at the wheel side to match it? i'm guessing from the pic your 1.75" in from pivot on the frame side with spacer?

I fully plan to build new outter hub assemblies.. those are cake .
Replacing the whole rear assembly of the chassis that i just built in august is what i'd like to avoid.

Offline sandvw

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2016, 05:16:41 AM »
I'll keep my bragging rights simple and short...
My buggy breaks all the damn time.. But i'm still 35 minutes away from st.A

lol
I do not know about the first one but for sure you got them on the second one 35 minutes.

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2016, 05:52:27 AM »
I added 1" on the vertical spacing to the outer hubs. the intent wasn't for travel it was so the hub wouldn't roll in on its self at full droop. In this latest mock up i changed it from 1" to 1/4" to minimize the plunge it was around 3/8"
before i installed the rpm. I think that change bumped it up to about 3/4" or so. I have put lots of hours on this rear drive in 2 chassis and it handles really good. I have always managed to keep it wheels down.
The plunge is 3/8" or was 3/8"??  This will not work if so.  If you had 3/8" plunge that is what was breaking ujoints.  Even with slipper axles.  Design for 0 and figure on some from real world build and flexing.

This part I'm lost on too.  Please explain

When I built my rear end, I designed no camber gain.  Wish I had, but I set my rear tires to -1* and stays same thru travel.  Since your leaving frame side of car Need the ## from inner CV center pivot to center of inner A-arm mounts.  Line thru upper and lower mount and measure to center of CV pivot.  The outer hub mounts will need to be offset by same to 0 out plunge.  Then I would add maybe 1/2" height to the wheel hub mounts you are remaking to get camber.  The 1/2 should be added to the upper, keeping the axle parallel to the lower arm.  With it set at 0 at full droop you should gain 2-3* camber depending on travel ##.   Are you trying to keep existing arms too.  I see no reason you cant other than they will determine which axle length you may need.  But most axles can be trimmed down a bit to get correct fit.  I have a crude drawing somewhere, not as nice as your CAD.

You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.