Author Topic: AR-51 build  (Read 49059 times)

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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #255 on: March 18, 2019, 05:36:51 PM »
it does look good! so exh placement is up to you and either way i believe it will work. if you bottom out from time to time inderneath the carrier will require a skid plate. i will say i have tried the 90* back to back turns in the exh and it does add back pressure. how much ....i really cannot say but i went back to under the carrier myself ( n/a busa) i still have the factory header i modified and ran 3 plus years that i merged 4 into one at the factory Y or crossover section. i would've gave it to you can still will if you want an extra. i like the carriers btw. what else are you going to do to the lower arms where the shock mounts? that bend is a weak point now imo and may need to make a slightly beefier shock mount.  maybe something like this??


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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #256 on: March 18, 2019, 05:40:50 PM »
i am still waiting for my new turbo manifold before i can start my swap over to the efr 6758 turbo. enemy also bought the efr 6258 for his busa so this will be a nice test in case you ever decide to boost yours.  ;D ;)
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Offline Lance-W

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #257 on: March 18, 2019, 08:41:57 PM »
Sorry about being negative but I learned this the hard way.

I would be concerned with how your mounting loading that bottom arm with that shock.  It's in the middle of the span, off center forward to back, it's going to twist that arm like a pretzel.
 
Think about it this way.  The inner arm pivot points are fixed vertically and the wheel lugs/flange are fixed vertically,  The shock is a hydraulic press pushing down and what happens.............  I really don't think you can make that arm strong enough and with enough cross bracing to allow it to survive.  Even if you were able to make it strong enough not to bend you'll never solve the twist problem.



Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #258 on: March 19, 2019, 05:29:53 AM »
GREAT info! 
For the exhaust routing.  Below my spool on those brackets there is webbing in there that rests on the horizontal tube.  It takes some stress off the bolts holding the spool in place.

As for the arms.  I totally agree that having the shock in the middle of a bend is bad.  I will have a truss on that arm to spread out the load.

Lance, not negative at all.  That is constructive criticism to fill in my design shortcomings that i welcome very much!
Good eye on the twisting affect.  I will have a bypass shock on the other arm.  I thing that would spread the twist out?  I do have the ability to push the shocks into the center of the arm and build some plate work between the arms so that the loading will be more central to the pivot points.  I just have to clear my axle running in between the coil over and the bypass.

Looks as if I need to get the cv's and axles in place to line this out.

Justin 
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #259 on: March 19, 2019, 05:31:28 AM »
I got my uppers tacked together for fitment...I couldn't help myself to put a wheel on.  SO STOKED on how it looks!


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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #260 on: March 19, 2019, 12:12:48 PM »
40* might be a bit extreme on those cv's. i ran mine with a max of 35* on my busa for 3 years. it does run higher temps at 35* where 40* will be a touch hotter. i have never tried 40* so i cannot say for sure. i lowered mine to 30* with my current motor. only thing getting them hot now is my down pipe lol
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 12:25:36 PM by dsrace »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #261 on: March 19, 2019, 12:24:27 PM »
lance is right on the twist as well as bending moment.      just for example.......enemy had lower a arms with a single piece made out of 1.5" od .25" wall 1020 dom. i mounted the shock close to center as you have done. i questioned if that 1\4" wall was strong enough waaaaaay back then! lol it wasn't, he bent it down apprx 1/8". so built new ones  with a brace. now you have seen my current rear a arms with 2.5 fox shock mounted 40% up from carrier. i used 1 piece of 1.5" od .25 wall tube and 1.25" od .120 wall to make the lowers. recangle 1"x2" .125 wall tube was used as bracing. shock is mounted on the 1.5" tube with an extra wide ( 8" wide i think) shock mounts. the rectangle tube welds to the point to take the twisting moment.  i say all this because mine is much heavier than yours. it has been fine for over 2 years and has been bottomed out a couple times. now having said that i also have a 3 legged lower arm so the twisting moment is support from both sides. could a couple pieces of rectangle tube in each lower for bracing work on your with current shock location?? i think so if you use a long/wide shock tab that spans ateast 3/4 of the lower arm and inner tab weld to the recangle.  still cannot say for sure though.    lancew what are you thoughts on that idea?
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #262 on: March 19, 2019, 01:01:36 PM »
40* might be a bit extreme on those cv's. i ran mine with a max of 35* on my busa for 3 years. it does run higher temps at 35* where 40* will be a touch hotter. i have never tried 40* so i cannot say for sure. i lowered mine to 30* with my current motor. only thing getting them hot now is my down pipe lol

I will tone it down on the angle.  I will max it out at 35* to keep things somewhat in the safe zone.  Maybe 36* to live life on the edge.  LOL

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #263 on: March 19, 2019, 01:08:48 PM »
lance is right on the twist as well as bending moment.      just for example.......enemy had lower a arms with a single piece made out of 1.5" od .25" wall 1020 dom. i mounted the shock close to center as you have done. i questioned if that 1\4" wall was strong enough waaaaaay back then! lol it wasn't, he bent it down apprx 1/8". so built new ones  with a brace. now you have seen my current rear a arms with 2.5 fox shock mounted 40% up from carrier. i used 1 piece of 1.5" od .25 wall tube and 1.25" od .120 wall to make the lowers. recangle 1"x2" .125 wall tube was used as bracing. shock is mounted on the 1.5" tube with an extra wide ( 8" wide i think) shock mounts. the rectangle tube welds to the point to take the twisting moment.  i say all this because mine is much heavier than yours. it has been fine for over 2 years and has been bottomed out a couple times. now having said that i also have a 3 legged lower arm so the twisting moment is support from both sides. could a couple pieces of rectangle tube in each lower for bracing work on your with current shock location?? i think so if you use a long/wide shock tab that spans ateast 3/4 of the lower arm and inner tab weld to the recangle.  still cannot say for sure though.    lancew what are you thoughts on that idea?

Below is a side view of the lower arm that shows the trusset (gusset that reminds me of a truss) that will span appx 70% of the arm.  It will be boxed and have a boss on each side for the  lower shock bolt.

After these discussions, i may be able to move everything towards the center.  I will have to mock in an axle to check clearances.  Very similar to the front lower arm on an a-arm prerunner set up.
Below is a plan view of the lower arm.  The outer x in red is the proposed  shock location.  If there is room, I may move things closer to the center and box things in.  Thoughts?

   
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Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #264 on: March 19, 2019, 03:58:18 PM »
40* might be a bit extreme on those cv's. i ran mine with a max of 35* on my busa for 3 years. it does run higher temps at 35* where 40* will be a touch hotter. i have never tried 40* so i cannot say for sure. i lowered mine to 30* with my current motor. only thing getting them hot now is my down pipe lol

I will tone it down on the angle.  I will max it out at 35* to keep things somewhat in the safe zone.  Maybe 36* to live life on the edge.  LOL

Justin

 ;) ;D

the pic of your truss idea for a-arms looks good. 
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Offline Lance-W

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #265 on: March 19, 2019, 07:58:39 PM »
It'll just bend at the end of the truss.   You're just moving the stress point.  To overcome it with a truss the truss has to go from one reaction (think pivot) point to the other.  At which point why even use the tube other than be a jig for the truss.  The shock in the middle of the arm is the problem......

Putting the shock on one side and the bypass on the other is a good idea to balance the load but the arm will still see twist if they are not even in the reaction force when the arm is forced up in suspension compression.  Whether it's close enough???  all you can do is try it.

Online fabr

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #266 on: March 19, 2019, 08:59:07 PM »
It'll just bend at the end of the truss.   You're just moving the stress point.  To overcome it with a truss the truss has to go from one reaction (think pivot) point to the other.  At which point why even use the tube other than be a jig for the truss.  The shock in the middle of the arm is the problem......

Putting the shock on one side and the bypass on the other is a good idea to balance the load but the arm will still see twist if they are not even in the reaction force when the arm is forced up in suspension compression.  Whether it's close enough???  all you can do is try it.
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #267 on: March 20, 2019, 04:56:46 AM »
That makes perfect sense.  I went back and reviewed pictures of other a-arm suspensions and the truss goes all the way to the reaction point.  I will use these arms for set up and I think I will build a set of boxed plate lowers.  I would rather be safe than sorry.

I appreciate the info! 

Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....

Offline dsrace

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #268 on: March 20, 2019, 06:46:18 AM »
the stretched rear section really does change the overall look, i do like it.  the boxed and plated lowers is probably the best idea.  what bolt pattern are those rear hubs?
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Offline deranged

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Re: AR-51 build
« Reply #269 on: March 20, 2019, 08:40:25 AM »
The rear hubs are a 5 on 4.5.  I have adapters to run the 4 on 156 bolt pattern RZR wheels.

Here is a booty shot.


Justin
I live nowhere near a desert....