Author Topic: front end problems  (Read 2862 times)

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Offline fastcorvairs

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 08:30:25 PM »
ok since you can't tell from the pics I will give up some real info on the front end. the spacing, up and down, between the a - arms at the frame/cradle is 9.5" and the distance on the upright on the spindle where the a-arms bolt up is 7 7/8"........... yep ah huh bas ackwards!! along with a center load rack with an 11" spreader where they're needs to be a 15" with the offset of the steering arm on the spindle......... so on top of creating pos camber it does what????????????????? you guessed it .............major bump steer and what good are cutting tires with 3* pos camber????????????? the pics don't look as bad as it really is either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how how how how how can this guy keep his doors open selling sh%t like this???????????????????? with all the info on the net and forums like this how can one not know this is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!       bs1 eyes eyes kick rofl

I'll tell you how he keeps his doors open.  His ma ma is very rich and pays the bills.   And over looks the fact he sells and uses coke. NO not the bottled kind ether.  I was doing biz with him when he had a shop in Wichita.  The day before he filed for BK everything went missing in his shop.  Wound up in a garage down in OKC until the BK was settled. Then low and behold it all showed back up in his store up in Hutch.   

If I believe I cannot do something it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe that I can, then I acquire the ability to do it , even if I didn't have it at the beginning.

Online fabr

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2013, 09:33:38 PM »
But as has been said many times,"there's a sucker born every minute." This guy sounds like a real piece of "work".
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline sandycrack

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2013, 08:05:43 AM »
I am not a suspension design guy, but even I can see that this car has serious problems just looking at it and not seeing the video.  The lack of support in the frame is scary. 
You smell that?

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2013, 09:18:26 AM »
95% of those who "buy" don't know better til afterwards.  There bud has one and they want one so out comes the checkbook.  I would say his repeat business is nonexsistant.   Sad!!
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Online fabr

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2013, 09:49:21 AM »
Hell,even the Chinese yard kart buggies have better geometry.  Many people that buy this stuff also don't realize it's the POS buggy design that makes it handle so poorly  and not their lack of talent in driving it.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2013, 12:52:55 PM »
Hell,even the Chinese yard kart buggies have better geometry.  Many people that buy this stuff also don't realize it's the POS buggy design that makes it handle so poorly  and not their lack of talent in driving it.

the fact that he could keep it in a straight direction says he has some driving talent  rofl
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Offline dsrace

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2013, 12:57:11 PM »
pics
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Offline dsrace

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2013, 01:00:36 PM »
a warning to all those or your friends, that are thinking about buying a rail or chassis from the buggy shop in hutchenson Kansas ....don't just don't. not unless your a big adam's family fan and think a coffin on 4 wheels with a motor is cool!!   rofl rofl

check out the upper shock mounts. I am not sure what kind of steel was used to make the frame but givin what I see in person, i'm going to guess .095 wall 1.5" od erw. now I am pretty sure if he ever bottoms out the front end and completely compress's the front shocks he will most likely know from the humps he'll see in the hood.   rofl
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 01:03:12 PM by Dsrace »
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Offline Enemy

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2013, 10:22:57 PM »
And lets not forget the rear shocks that will be departing from their top mounts..Right next to you or passengers skull......not cool.

Not effin cool whatsoever.
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Online fabr

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2013, 12:52:14 AM »
the fact that he could keep it in a straight direction says he has some driving talent  rofl
I'd have to see proof that he did/could. LMAO
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2013, 11:05:50 AM »
that is why I carefully chose the word direction and not line..... rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

yep enemy is correct.....2.5 kings coil overs with remote resv bolted up top in single shear relying on a grade 8 bolt 1/2" dia to keep them on the frame and 5 or 6" behind the heads and aimed in that direction of course no worse the the fuel tank. if you remove the head rests you can rest your head on the tank and the driver can rest his on the filler neck!! now I know room becomes and issue sometimes but look at the pics.....there's plenty of room in the rear!!
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Online fabr

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2013, 11:55:25 AM »
Some pretty crappy stuff for sure.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline dsrace

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2013, 11:54:21 AM »
well the customer opted not to cut the front end off and install a good one! he just wants better so I told him I would do what I could but will never be right or offer the performance my front end kit do!! so I wound up moving the upper a arm tabs down 1.75" and back 1/2".....  rack mount up 1/2" clearenced the spindles because they were all bunged up where the heim jam nuts had been hitting them. I had to make special tabs to drop the upper a arm since he didn't want me to cut the upper tube to drop it. btw I weighed the latest rage aluminum spindle.....8oz's heavier than the steel combo link spindles I use!! so it was a crap ton of work but I was able to correct a lot of the front end issues. it had appr 10" of bump steer starting out from almost 7" toe out to almost 4" of toe in and 2* pos camber with only 2* caster. now it has 8* caster and -1* camber with no toe out and 3/4" toe in through a 22" stroke but he is only capable of using 18" of travel so he won't feel the full effect of the full 3/4" toe in change. if you look at the front end pics you'll see where  the tie rods are placed, this placement has problems I cannot fix and is a problem with the a-arm design. at full droop and up to the first 4" of wheel stroke they hit the upper a arm at 3/4 turn of the steering wheel. he needs taller spindles but needs a whole new front end design! the way this looks to me the buggy shop in hutch Kansas appears to be buying some brand of knock down frames like barrien or warrior meant for air cooled motors and beam front ends and altering the frames and adding a arms. it looks to me that he has copied someone else's design and has absolutely no knowledge of the that design or of front end design for that matter!

I probably shouldn't have worked on this rail but he laid a sob story on me and I felt bad for him. he paid $18k for the rail new and had to do some finish work to complete it to the point it is at. right after purchase as in 6hrs of use, the trans failed because the buggy shops idea of built is using used factory gears and he got this info from the guy building the trans for the buggy shop as he showed him the box of used gears he's givin to build them with. so he bought a supposed built trans online and wouldn't you know he bought a don's bus box special so WE ALL KNOW HOW FAST THAT ONE FAILED!! so he got in touch with transman ( shane) and had him build a good trans and no more problems in the last 1.5 years of use with his super charged 3.8 ltre with an extra 7 lbs of boost. on top of the buggy shop uses's iron 5 lug economy disc brakes on the rear that are known for breaking off on air cooled buggies!! he wound up breaking the stub axle off on the drivers side twice so he bought jamar disc brake kit to replace the brakes too. he also had to change the rear shocks so he went with king 2.5 c/o's with remote res with a dial to adjust rates on the res. I think  $800 each. plus the rail came new with poly seats so he changed them out to susp seats. so he's now in the rail about $26k!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 12:02:01 PM by Dsrace »
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Offline WelderPat

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2013, 05:56:26 PM »
 They are not bad looking and have some decent parts in them .
That makes people think they are worth buying.
The average buyer knows nothing about the engineering and suspension geometry that goes in to these.
 But it sounds like you got it fairly drivable now.
There is always free cheese in a mouse trap.

Offline dsrace

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Re: front end problems
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2013, 09:23:02 PM »
They are not bad looking and have some decent parts in them .
That makes people think they are worth buying.
The average buyer knows nothing about the engineering and suspension geometry that goes in to these.
 But it sounds like you got it fairly drivable now.

you are correct!  it will be a night and day diff on handling but not perfect.  if the people that don't know would just take a little time to visit forums such as this one, or ask someone that does know, they would save themselves a lot of headaches.  at the same time if people like this builder, took a little pride in there work, were honest, this wouldn't be a problem either. the builder can fix the issues but first has to learn many things or pay someone to do it for him.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 09:25:11 PM by Dsrace »
Don't never argue with an Idiot!
Because he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience