Author Topic: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.  (Read 6323 times)

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Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 09:13:09 AM »
How bout carve them out of billet.  Some of the big boys using them even on dual sports.  Its the best looking of the "in" thing. 
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Online fastcorvairs

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 09:34:36 AM »
How bout carve them out of billet.  Some of the big boys using them even on dual sports.  Its the best looking of the "in" thing.

Anything billet would be substantially heaver Carl.  I think what Lance is doing here is saving weight not adding it. 

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Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 09:41:11 AM »
The billet stuff,IMO,is just bling and not an improvement. I think lance is doing the right thing for the 2da's. Very hard to billet anything and make it lighter and stronger.
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but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
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Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 09:44:09 AM »
Just a quick weight comparison of 1 foot long peices for you.








Pretty close to my guesstimates.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Monster_44

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 03:21:27 PM »
for the plate/sheet for the LCA's use 0.120" for the main structure and if you are gonna do any additional bracing in high stress areas (i.e. shock mounting area) then use 0.090" on top of the 0.120". . .that's what the pro's use that you pay mucho dinero for. . . I didn't know if you had the arms built yet but this is what I found for info.  Hope it helps!
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Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2012, 04:28:56 PM »
Sure does but only to a point. Are they using mild 1018 or 4130?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2012, 04:38:17 PM »
FWIW,I'm going to do a boxed round tube construction for the lower control arms front and rear since I somehow have an abundance of 1.75 x .120 laying here and a nice supply of .125 4130 plate. I must have had my head in a dark place where the sun never shines when I added up footage.  eyes I'm thinking they should look nice also. That is if I weld them worth a crap. For whatever reason I'm on a roll so far. The welds look fantastic. Hope that holds out till finished.  ;D ;D ;D
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Monster_44

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2012, 08:36:05 PM »
Sure does but only to a point. Are they using mild 1018 or 4130?

4130 from what I understand.
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Offline Monster_44

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2012, 08:39:06 PM »
FWIW,I'm going to do a boxed round tube construction for the lower control arms front and rear since I somehow have an abundance of 1.75 x .120 laying here and a nice supply of .125 4130 plate. I must have had my head in a dark place where the sun never shines when I added up footage.  eyes I'm thinking they should look nice also. That is if I weld them worth a crap. For whatever reason I'm on a roll so far. The welds look fantastic. Hope that holds out till finished.  ;D ;D ;D

Are you mig or tig welding?  Those will be extra beefy arms, you should have no troubles!
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Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2012, 08:50:06 PM »
TIG. I need beef. I tend to bend things.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Engineer

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2012, 12:01:58 AM »
Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;D

My upper arms are 16 ga, but the lowers are 14 ga and considerably heavier.  I saw where the 3200 lb 1000hp cars were using 1/8" and decided I didn't need to be nearly that heavy, but I may be wrong.

I calculated the weight of a tubular arm then tried to come up with a sheet metal design at nearly the same weight.  As Lance pointed out a square tube is stronger because more of the material is further from the bending point.  A sheet metal arm has most of its material at the furthest distance from the bending axis.  So if you are the same weight with the material distributed more efficiently then it should be stronger.

Where I am concerned is when you start narrowing down to the outer connection point at the spindle.  If the total cross sectional area of the arm gets down to the equivalent of the cross section of your heim shank then you are asking for trouble.  I have seen people add doubling plates for the last few inches that spreads the loads back to where the cross sectional area of the arm is much greater. 

What I really like about the sheet metal design is the front to back strength.  If you lawn dart, tubular arms want to pivot at all the connections and parallelogram, where the sheet metal (if there is enough material to keep it from folding) should have much more resistance to folding back.

The reason I went lighter on the top arm is because my wheel center is about 3" from the lower arm and about 9" from the top arm.  When you jump and land, the lower arm is holding all the weight, all the upper arm has to do is control camber.  If your lower spindle connection is tucked into the wheel reasonably the camber control load isn't very significant.  When you hit a square edge bump pushing the wheel straight back, the 3-9 inch ratio tells you that the lower arm will take 3/4 of the hit and the upper arm will take only 1/4.

That was much of my reasoning for what I did.  Remains to be seen if it will work out.

I don't see how you can go wrong boxing the tubular arms either.

Offline Monster_44

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2012, 04:28:52 PM »
TIG. I need beef. I tend to bend things.

Well if your not bending shit, your not trying hard enough! ;D
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Offline Monster_44

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2012, 04:36:05 PM »
I know johnny greaves truck runs boxed lowers and tube uppers.  His truck has to way 4,000lbs according to torc rule book.  They seem to hold up pretty good unless he gets hit really hard in the front, the upper control arm tends to break or bend. That's short course off road racing for ya though! His whole truck is chrome moly everything. Here's a link to check out his truck.

http://www.race-dezert.com/home/feature-vehicle-johnny-greaves-pro4-1631.html
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 04:39:18 PM by Monster_44 »
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Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2012, 04:47:47 PM »
Well if your not bending shit, your not trying hard enough! ;D
Think I'll beef and try harder yet...................... ;D
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Boxed Sheet Metal Components.
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2012, 04:54:02 PM »
I know johnny greaves truck runs boxed lowers and tube uppers.  His truck has to way 4,000lbs according to torc rule book.  They seem to hold up pretty good unless he gets hit really hard in the front, the upper control arm tends to break or bend. That's short course off road racing for ya though! His whole truck is chrome moly everything. Here's a link to check out his truck.

http://www.race-dezert.com/home/feature-vehicle-johnny-greaves-pro4-1631.html
I'm thinking the same thing since,just as engineer pointed out , the uppers get quite a lot less abuse. My car is all 4130 also. Thanks for the link. I'll look at it now. Always good to have something to compare or scale to.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)