Author Topic: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?  (Read 5732 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 91170
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2012, 05:54:01 AM »
I think I follow that.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

LiveWire

  • Guest
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2012, 11:49:08 AM »
I think this is an example of what he is saying...

Compared to the suspension you posted pictures of, the side to side shock would be a hard link. The pivot arms would be connected to the suspension arms with torsion bars. The idea being is packaging caused you you to mount a traditional sway bar high, you could relocate the weight lower and/or closer to the center of the machine. I take the gears to mean using something like a rack and pinion on each side instead of a bell crank style arm.

In order to work like a traditional sway bar and not the opposite like that RC car setup, the rack would have to be over one torsion bar and under the other side. So left arm moves up twisting left torsion bar in clockwise direction, pushes rack above gear to right which twists right torsion bar in counter clockwise direction since rack is below which in turn reduces spring load on the right side.

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 91170
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2012, 01:07:46 PM »
Clear as mud! I see what you mean tho. THanks guys.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline gap351

  • Grunt worker
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2013, 07:24:20 PM »
seems to be based on the third spring idea that a lot of aero cars run  and formula vees  it increase the ride rate but not the roll rate ,but its not a sway bar at all

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 91170
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2013, 08:26:46 PM »
Educate me more please.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline sandycrack

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2013, 07:02:42 AM »
Please do post more info and bigger pics would be nice also.  These damn old eyes just cant see like they used to.
You smell that?

Offline gap351

  • Grunt worker
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2013, 01:59:11 PM »
I'm not really sure what you what to know?
sway bars increase the roll resistance or roll rate they have no effect on the ride rate the way that set up is it may even decrease roll resistance ,maybe who ever designed this wanted to do that or may be he or she thought it looked good


there is one main difference between black track and off road cars and its where we get traction from ,black track its in the surface and the cars use whats available,  off road the tyres create traction using cutting edges ( any thing that stick out off you wheel) and vertical load
This is the main reason you don't see as many sway bars in off road we genrally want the ride rate to be close to the roll rate as  we need weight transfer 

At the end of the day it comes down to the rubber on the road and every thing we do is to make it stick better

but as usual nothings ever that simple if you want more info on how they use the third spring on the black stuff ill have to do a sketch as theres not to many good pics out there (they don't like people getting close ups lol)

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 91170
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2013, 04:28:24 PM »
I'm not really sure what you what to know?
sway bars increase the roll resistance or roll rate they have no effect on the ride rate the way that set up is it may even decrease roll resistance ,maybe who ever designed this wanted to do that or may be he or she thought it looked good


there is one main difference between black track and off road cars and its where we get traction from ,black track its in the surface and the cars use whats available,  off road the tyres create traction using cutting edges ( any thing that stick out off you wheel) and vertical load
This is the main reason you don't see as many sway bars in off road we genrally want the ride rate to be close to the roll rate as  we need weight transfer 

At the end of the day it comes down to the rubber on the road and every thing we do is to make it stick better

but as usual nothings ever that simple if you want more info on how they use the third spring on the black stuff ill have to do a sketch as theres not to many good pics out there (they don't like people getting close ups lol)


That's what I would like to know more about. The rest I know .
My reasoning for a sway bar is,IMO,more simplistic.Minimizing body roll. Nothing else. BUT,it seems like a arm cars don't roll nearly as much as trailing arm cars. Can anyone help me understand why that is?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline gap351

  • Grunt worker
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 05:37:47 PM »
more than likely roll centre to cg height

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 91170
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2013, 09:47:58 PM »
I never investigated it but I would not have thought that an a arm car inherently would have a higher roll center than a trailing arm car would.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline BDKW1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 896
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2013, 10:21:24 PM »
seems to be based on the third spring idea that a lot of aero cars run  and formula vees  it increase the ride rate but not the roll rate ,but its not a sway bar at all

Yup, that extra shock on the RC car will do absolutely nothing for roll control. Extra spring rate yes.

Offline gap351

  • Grunt worker
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2013, 10:31:18 PM »
yes it may be ,well it would have to be lower to create more roll

Online fabr

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 91170
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2013, 06:35:19 AM »
SO ,what,it functions as an adjustable ,additional spring rate?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline gap351

  • Grunt worker
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2013, 02:39:56 PM »
its more like a lever the bigger distance between the two ,centre of gravity height and roll centre the bigger the lever ,and yes it is adjustable .ride heights the easy way , geometry ,its also a balance thing front to rear

Offline Engineer

  • Inquisitor
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 2657
Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2013, 10:09:51 PM »

Yup, that extra shock on the RC car will do absolutely nothing for roll control. Extra spring rate yes.

I don't agree.  If you look at the way the linkages are setup, when the vehicle rolls, because of the linkage throws, the third spring will apply more force down on the compressed side than the uncompressed side.

If the vehicle goes straight down then it applies pressure to both sides equally.