Author Topic: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?  (Read 6241 times)

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Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2012, 07:43:58 PM »
Why? Guys with them front and rear seem to like them. I see no negatives.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Engineer

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2012, 10:52:17 PM »
Probably quite right . Still there's something that intrigues me about this. I agree fully that with the shock floating between the 2 fulcrums that it will actually aggravate body roll. If there were 2 shocks fixed at one end it would be no different than a rocker arm suspension. Again ,no benefit so far as body roll is concerned. In the end,no net benefit and with the added weight,complexity and expense. Still intrigued though.

I think Y'all missed the point of how this works.  ;D



If you look at the linkage that is connected to each end of the top shock you will notice that it isn't real symetrical.   If both arms are cycled at the same time then there will be exactly equal pressure to the linkage on each side.  However if one side is compressed, the linkage ratio is such that the side compressed more will have a longer distance from the linkage pivot to the shock pivot than the opposite side, resulting in more down pressure from the shock going to the side compressed further.  This will have an anti sway affect.

IMO it won't be greatly noticeable or affective, however in theory it could produce some sway resistance.

ETA:  Just to clarify, if the left side stayed in the same position but you compressed the right side till the right linkage pivot and the right end of the shock where it mounts to the pivot were in line vertically, the leverage distance on the right side would be about double that on the left side.  Therefore whatever pressure the spring was producing would be resulting in double the pressure down on the right side than the left.

I am not taking into account the leverage difference from the linkage down to the Arm, so it probably gets messier.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 10:58:52 PM by Engineer »

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2012, 05:58:08 AM »
That is what I saw also but I also ,as you said ,see it as giving a only very small anti roll benefit. So small that on a small scale it MIGHT help but when scaled up full size would likely not work the same. At any rate it is more complicated with negligible possible benefits over a conventional bar.Another thing a person would notice is the importance of zero play in all the pivots. To do that would IMO,make for a heavier setup than a simple bar arrangement.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2012, 06:04:39 AM »
We should remember that the function a sway bar provides is to actually LIFT the inside tire/suspension when the outside tire/suspension compresses to pull the inside down,in effect adding weight to the inside tire /suspension,lessening body roll. In that respect a bar does the job better than the transverse shock and linkage would. Still,on a long travel,there is something that makes me rethink this principle compared to a bar over and over. I like the principle but don't see a net benefit. Oh,well,I like people that are not afraid to try new things whether on RC stuff or full size.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2012, 06:30:04 AM »
We should remember that the function a sway bar provides is to actually LIFT the inside tire/suspension when the outside tire/suspension compresses to pull the inside down,in effect adding weight to the inside tire /suspension,lessening body roll. In that respect a bar does the job better than the transverse shock and linkage would. Still,on a long travel,there is something that makes me rethink this principle compared to a bar over and over. I like the principle but don't see a net benefit. Oh,well,I like people that are not afraid to try new things whether on RC stuff or full size.

That was my thinking, when outside tire compresses, inside tire should compress too.  That setup should help some, but is still going to push down inside tire.
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Offline sandracer1

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2012, 12:49:13 PM »
I lost my swaybar this trip on the second day. IT SUCKED!!!!!! Sucker would not turn, body roll like crazy. It took twice the steering input to turn the little beast. Mine is only on the rear and without it the inside front tire will hike up about 6" to 1' off the ground. WITH it I can slide it into turns on pavement and be drifting with knobbies on the way out of the turn. It sure keeps my car planted to the ground. I really do not notice a big difference through woops and stuff. The little change it makes there is well worth the improvements everywhere else. I suggest one for everyone. Mine is a sprintcarkind of set up.

Offline sandycrack

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2012, 01:02:04 PM »
To me I think the old addage of "keep it simple" might be the best approach.  A conventional bar is proven and very effective.  I have seen several LT cars out at the SSSS with new ideas like this and while they look cool you never see the new approach take off and flood the market.  I suspect it is related to higher cost to build and maintain and no markable improvement to the conventional bar. 

As for front and rear bars I am with Faber.  I am not doing this to my car, but the guys I have talked to seem to like it alot.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 01:04:41 PM by sandycrack »
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Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2012, 01:10:43 PM »
I agree,at least for now,KISS is the way to go. But I like to at least think I keep an open mind. Not sure what I will do but if I drive this thing on hard pack much more it will at least get a rear bar and likely  front also. I'm toying with doing a bar disconnect also.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline sandycrack

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 08:58:55 AM »
I think one should always be looking for new technology and best practice or you might miss some favorable improvements.

I made my bar where the arms could be removed very easily, but I dont see me doing that much.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2012, 09:57:32 AM »
 I've seen 4WD front manual hubs used as disconnects. 2 seconds to engage/disengage.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Monster_44

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 09:23:51 PM »
I have a link for the sway bar kits used on trophy trucks and short course trucks.  The only thing is they are straight axle and I'm assuming you want to do a arm rear?  Click link, go to products, go down to suspension kit, the sway bars are in that section.  Camburg makes all kinds of really neat and expensive shit!

http://www.camburg.com/
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 09:43:59 PM by masterfabr »
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Offline Monster_44

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 09:48:55 PM »
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Offline dsrace

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 10:47:01 AM »
I have had the chance to talk with several people now that run v-8 4 to 2 seaters mid and rear. they have all had the same thing to say and that is the sway bars are a must have. now having said that there is more to consider, on a few of those rails the owner have broke those sway bars and had to run w/o them. in 1 case in particular the v-8 mid engine 2 seater wound up pulling the front one off because he said it didn't handle right with the rear missing. when he got the new one in for the rear he installed it but left the front off and pre-ferred that set up more than with both on. now one of the 4 seat rear guys aslo pulled his front off and pre-ferred it that way also. another guy I talked to loosed the adjustments on the front and pre-ferred that as well. now you have to also consider these rails are 95% sand only but something to think about.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 12:31:32 PM »
I believe there would be a definite different setup for dunes vs hardpack.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:33:21 PM by masterfabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline ironknot

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 09:40:16 PM »
Old Dodges used to run torsion bar spring along the chassis rails and use the lower arm as a connection, just to give you an idea of wear I'm coming from. I've seen two torsion bars connected with a gear on each at one end and an arm on the other with the arm connected to the lower suspension. This works like a traditional sway bar. The two halves of the sway bar can be placed together this would centralise the weight and maybe with an alloy link work well with an A-arm front-end. . . Out of the box
Thanks Ironknot