Author Topic: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?  (Read 5981 times)

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Offline fabr

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Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« on: May 14, 2012, 07:05:36 PM »
Out of the box, just copying R/C stuff, won't crossover to full size, no need, would/would not work,stupid to try,hasn't been done for a reason or just another step in the evolution of long travel offroad suspensions? Take a look at the pics and see if there's some reason it would (or not) not crossover to a full size 2500-2800 pound desert car.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 07:54:13 PM »
I am big into rc and have had those very sway bars.

They do not counteract but actually make it worse.  Follow the motion path.

In a normal sway bar the one side goes up and puts the same upward pull on the other side. Leveling the vehicle (or trying to anyways)

These push up on one side and push DOWN on the other.  Making it lean worse.

Your mission isn't to dive feet first into hell, but to make sure its crowded when you get there.

Offline Carlriddle

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 05:21:24 AM »
Unless there's some positive stop that would keep lever arm from pushing down I'm with Nutz,  ;D  Some of the offroad racing trucks run sway bars, but for 95% of us, no need.  But that 5% is the reason we do 95% of this stuff.
You can keep your CHANGE, I'd like to keep my DOLLAR.

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 05:58:53 AM »
I don't agree that we don't need sway bars. I'm also not sure that we are looking at this particular setup correctly either. At first glance I agree with you guys but with it here in front of me and cycling it through a lot of different scenarios I'm not so convinced it doesn't function pretty well. Not in a traditional sense but perhaps more  suited to the long suspension travels we use. Honestly I can't see how a traditional sway bar can work effectively giving both independent wheel action AND minimizing sway/body roll. Pretty hard to do both well at the same time with a traditional bar IMO.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 06:00:52 AM by masterfabr »
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Lance-W

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:01:49 AM »
Those tiny little bars connecting the horizontal shock to the A-arm WILL bend when they're put in compression.  They'd have to be big hollow tubes to take the load generated when the arm pushes up.  Might work on that model that weighs a few pounds but scale it up and they'd get huge.

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 08:24:10 AM »
Maybe ,maybe not. The spring pressures would not be extreme ,actually pretty light,to resist body roll. I agree that the "pushrods" would need to be hollow and of sufficient diameter to not bend/deflect. Doable , IMO. I mean I run upwards of 800# spring pressure on my race engines valve springs@.800 lift. 7/16" rods do a fine job @ 8500RPM. Seems to me a 1" or so hollow rod would be more than capable.
  I'm just screwing around ,thinking,looking at lots of things. Some work ,some don't. Never hurts to keep an open mind. Remember when they said long travel wasn't needed?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline vidio1

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 09:53:46 AM »
It would have to be a 50/50 shock or else it would be biased to one side. That might be an advantage for one of those left turn cars........

Honestly with it "floating" I don't see how it's any more effective than a traditional ASB at keeping a car flat. I can see where it would be better at keeping the wheels planted thou.

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 11:15:36 AM »
It would have to be a 50/50 shock or else it would be biased to one side. That might be an advantage for one of those left turn cars........

Honestly with it "floating" I don't see how it's any more effective than a traditional ASB at keeping a car flat. I can see where it would be better at keeping the wheels planted thou.
+1 maybe. I don't think the purpose ever was to function as a traditional sway bar.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 11:22:44 AM »
Those same systems on the rc cars were made for "extreme jumping" as they helped prevent bottoming out was the claim.

Some of them on certain models were so poorly designed they restricted the trucks stock suspension movement quite badely. The manuafacture was asked about this and stated. "Most rc trucks don't use all thier travel anyways." Total douche answer to me.

Most rc guys I know air these things out so high they show up on local airport radars. Bottoming out is mandatory for most to have "fun" in rc!

The makers of this suspension setup came one night and left the next. The only reason I had one is it came on a truck I got a good deal on on ebay.

With clean parts they were later considered a show option for shelf queens.

I still do not see a setup just like this really helping the leaning. It just makes the suspension a little stiffer and there are better ways to skin that cat IMO. 


Your mission isn't to dive feet first into hell, but to make sure its crowded when you get there.

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 01:14:36 PM »
Those same systems on the rc cars were made for "extreme jumping" as they helped prevent bottoming out was the claim.

Some of them on certain models were so poorly designed they restricted the trucks stock suspension movement quite badely. The manuafacture was asked about this and stated. "Most rc trucks don't use all thier travel anyways." Total douche answer to me.

Most rc guys I know air these things out so high they show up on local airport radars. Bottoming out is mandatory for most to have "fun" in rc!

The makers of this suspension setup came one night and left the next. The only reason I had one is it came on a truck I got a good deal on on ebay.

With clean parts they were later considered a show option for shelf queens.

I still do not see a setup just like this really helping the leaning. It just makes the suspension a little stiffer and there are better ways to skin that cat IMO.
Probably quite right . Still there's something that intrigues me about this. I agree fully that with the shock floating between the 2 fulcrums that it will actually aggravate body roll. If there were 2 shocks fixed at one end it would be no different than a rocker arm suspension. Again ,no benefit so far as body roll is concerned. In the end,no net benefit and with the added weight,complexity and expense. Still intrigued though.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline sandycrack

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2012, 05:46:53 PM »
I know my buggy is bigger and heavier and I am putting a sway bar on it. I got my setup from Speedway engineering.  It is a traditional setup.
You smell that?

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2012, 07:41:34 PM »
Same here. Gonna get a bar no doubt. In the sand it's not noticable much but on hardpack or pavement...............................well,let's just say it could be improved.The sudden over steer under hard cornering is a bit unnerving. 
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Offline sandracer1

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2012, 04:46:01 AM »
My bar pushed the bushing out of the frame tube this week while at L/S and turning ability went to shit. Unnerving body roll and loss of turning speed. It sucked. Mine is a trditional style with the torsion bar running through the frame under the seat. I can back my car in on the pavement and be drifting on the way out. They make a huge difference.

Offline fabr

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2012, 06:11:17 AM »
Ya,no doubt,IMO all cars need one.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

trans man

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Re: Sway Bar-Thinking Out of the Box?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2012, 06:12:57 PM »
I could see running a sway bar, but ONLY on the rear suspension. 8) 8) 8)