Author Topic: Slow Build by Engineer  (Read 46751 times)

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Offline Engineer

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Slow Build by Engineer
« on: February 08, 2010, 09:58:03 PM »
Current status:








Time to get started.  ;D

Well I have been gathering some parts so I will start with the parts Porn.

The shop mascot, Duke.



Yoshi gave me a deal on some wheels and tires.  I know, I installed the paddles backwards.  :-\




I set them up at the projected wheelbase and track width.



Some Fox shox from Doug Heim.



They are 2.0s 12" stroke for front and 18" stroke for rear.



Thanks Doug!



More parts from Doug.  Including some custom spacers he made for me.



Enough for a five link.



And some Rod ends.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 06:49:20 PM by Engineer »

Offline Engineer

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 09:58:16 PM »
I was inspired by BDKW1's build to use the F-150 bearings and CVs.  Because of the angles they will go I believe that I can meet my goals of keeping the sprocket above the frame, have 18" of rear travel, and 4" of clearance at full bump.  ;D  With an 80 tooth rear sprocket.  I plan to use busa power and with the ratio's everyone seems to be running the 80 tooth will compensate for my larger 30" tires and allow another tooth on the front sprocket.

Because the CV's are non-plunging I will be using a 5-link, and plan to get very near to zero plunge, with the axles floating between the CVs.

My design has been held up by not knowing the exact rotation point in the CVs.  The distance away from the bearing that the CV rotates at.  It is critical to know this point in order to build the frame and outer five link brackets so they all rotate together.


I made a jig.  I would like to thank LiveWire for a great deal on the EMPI CVs and axles.  He also got me brake calipers.



By rotating it up and down I measured the axle moving in and out relative to the jig frame.



I adjusted the rod ends until I found the point where the axle didn't push and pull as it went up and down.



Then I measured the distance.



Now I can finalize the design of all the brackets for the five link.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 10:38:26 PM by Engineer »

Offline Engineer

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 09:58:26 PM »
Here is my sketch of how I wanted the center drive to work using as many off the shelf parts as possible.



So I plan to use 3 of the Timken #515017 bearings, one on each rear wheel and one for the center carrier.  These are off of a 97-02 Ford F-150 front.



I wanted to only modify 1 of the CVs, but I didn't want to give up the distance or have the drive side CV hang out to far so I cut about 1/2" off the threaded tip of the passenger side CV.  This CV fits in the bearing and bolts in just like on the OE application.



Then the sprocket goes on where the brake rotor was made to set.



Now to modify the drivers side CV.

Ouch!



Here is the CV and the flange that will hold it.



It had a nice gap to weld between the flange and the CV.



I finished it by turning the back side true to the CV and setting the distance to the CV shoulder so the Rotation point will be correct.  It will center up where the wheel is supposed to on the bearing.



Now mount it on with lug bolts just like the wheel was meant to.



So here is the complete setup.



Compared to a 930 setup the width is 6.4" flange to flange.

It's 9.9" from outside of CV to outside of CV.




On a side note, LiveWire says he can get a bearing with a more standard 5 on 4.5" BC which would be easier to bolt wheels right onto, but I needed the wider BC in order to be able to tighten the lug nuts around the driver side CV.

If I was building a single seat or smaller car I would possibly use bearings and CVs off of a front wheel drive car to save some weight.  However the F-150 CV's are nice because a 930 splined axle fits right in them, and long length axles are readily available which may or may not be the case for a FWD car CV.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 11:33:20 PM by Engineer »

Offline Engineer

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 09:58:34 PM »
Because I am using the F-150 Bearings, I am going to need some wheel adapters to fit the wide 5 rims.



There is a step for the brake rotor center and a smaller one for the wheel.  Also there are nice radii on the bearings so everything needed chamfered to sit down all the way.  Here is the adapter on the F-150 bearing.



needed a wide cap to cover the CV snout.



The front ones can get away with a flat cap.  Polishing required.  :P



I decided to swim upstream on the front to.  I am using a standard timken bearing off the rear of a front wheel drive car for the front bearings.  The bearings will bolt to the front spindles or uprights.



So here is the front wheel with adapter mounted to the bearing.



And with caps.



« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 11:19:52 PM by Engineer »

Offline Engineer

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 09:58:42 PM »
saved

Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 09:58:45 PM »
No pics?  What a tease.... kick
This post has been edited due to content.

Offline Engineer

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 09:59:09 PM »
Stay calm their coming!

Offline komelika

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 11:54:01 PM »
Very cool! Can't wait to see this one in action!
If you remain calm while everything around you is complete chaos... then you probably haven't fully understood the situation!

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Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 12:30:02 AM »
so you are only supporting one side of your carrier?  The bearing may take it, but how bout the mount and the area of the frame the mount is attached to?
This post has been edited due to content.

Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 02:20:02 AM »
Innnnn-teeeeee-resting.

Subscribing.

Be neat to see how well this works.

I know the bearings carry a mean load in the truck. I wonder if the offset will load them badly? 


Your mission isn't to dive feet first into hell, but to make sure its crowded when you get there.

Online fabr

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 05:57:50 AM »
Very nice work and ideas. I wouldn't worry about bearing loading.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

Online fabr

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2010, 06:14:23 AM »
I admit I'm concerned with the leverage the overhang of the sprocket  will have on the chain. The mount with only a single bearing concerns me only from the standpoint of rigidity and possible chain alignment issues  the single mount might have due to any possible deflection that will occur under power. The mount will need to be super rigid.Engineer is plenty educated enough to be able to calculate the deflection loads to see what the deflection will be and how much chain alignment will be affected sooooo,engineer,how ya gonna keep it mounted rigidly enough to prevent any deflection ?
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)

SPEC

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2010, 07:41:30 AM »
Wow E-farmer
You've been busy

Offline Engineer

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2010, 08:16:45 AM »
Thanks guys!

In regard to the single bearing mount, it is a potential issue.  The sprocket is 1.94" away from the mounting face of the bearing, so it isn't a great distance.  I won't be timid throwing a little steel at the mount.

As far as the bearing, the sprocket is mounted right against the face.  Also it isn't a single bearing, but a double timken taper.

Online fabr

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Re: Slow Build by Engineer
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2010, 10:10:36 AM »
Seriously the mount is my concern. I know for sure that bugpac had total failure of a similar narrow bearing mount with much less HP and had to redesign. His also looked to be bulletproof but IMO only, there has to be serious consideration of the mount rigidity.. It will take mounting the engine and mount into one very stiff,rigid structure that will not allow any flex not only at the mount but also no flex of the motor mounts and frame between the engine and drive. I know I argued high and low about my not having any flex issues with my first drive  on the BBQ buggy but after much thought and rethinking I am certain frame flex was the culprit. The chain will exert,as I'm sure you realize, a large amount of twist into that mount. I'm sure that you'll be able to figure out how much steel to throw at it but ,again, be mindful of the entire cradle package for the engine and drive to ensure chain alignment under WOT power. Remember what we get away with on smaller buggies will bite you in the ass  when busas or Kawi1400 or any other really high output MC engine is used. They will twist stuff every way but loose. LOL!!! I'm liking your work.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots" Albert Einstein  (IT'S OFFICIAL THAT DAY IS HERE NOW!)