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1
UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by fabr on Yesterday at 07:12:42 PM »
Well,
It's been a busy year so far and haven't been on here in a while!!  Well I have done a couple things to the car as of lately.
I went from a 10" ebay fan to a 12" Spal curved blade fan, drained my coolant and used some Royal Purple "water wetter" type stuff.  What I used before was distilled water and water-wetter.  I used distilled water per Suzuki.  However that is mixed with antifreeze.  Well I guess distilled water will actually draw minerals out of the cooling jacket and reduce the cooling efficiency? Well, I now have purified drinking water and that Royal Purple additive.  All things combined, I can run it really REALLY hard in the dunes and it will get up to 210 with a 95* ambient air temp.  I don't push it past that, as I will stop for literally 30 seconds to a min. and it will drop to 190 and stay there under "normal" driving around on the dunes.  Possibly may go to a 4 row Civic rad vs the 2 row I currently have.

I also made some adapters for my bead-lock wheels!  It looks KILLER!  so from going from 8" wide wheels to a 10" wide wheel and 13" wide paddles there is more of a contact patch on the sand.  It really hooks up good now! 

I made some spring adjustments too.  Originally had 300# on the bottom and 250# on the top...WAY over-sprung.  I had 2" of shaft in the body..(LMAO)  I was hoping for 4-5" of shaft in the body..(LMFAO, married mans dream).  I did the math over and over and my simple mind said if you need to drop another 2" cut the poundage in half.  Well, my numbers matched up to the calculations that Downsouth Motorsports came up with.  I should be getting the new coils today.  150 on the bottom with 100 on the top.  This will allow me some pre-load if I needed.  Then I will have to test and possibly some valving.

This car is just too much damn fun!  Not sure if I want to start another build, or do a Busa swap with this car.  Looking at dyno numbers of the 750, bikes are seeing 55# ft of torque at 12k...the first gen busa has that at 2500 rpm...  And this car will pull the front wheels juuuust ever so slightly over a roller at 10-13k RPM.   


I'm sorry but I gotta call BS on that. The simple truth is that there is no better coolant than 100% distilled water. Is there a problem with running pure distilled? Yup,no corrosion inhibitors. That is why it needs at least some antifreeze in it. Water wetter products ,IMO,are just marketing hype and will absolutely not cool any better than water/antifreeze that also provides ample corrosion protection. If a person is having controlling temps it is simply a matter of either too small a radiator or much more likely too little airflow through the radiator due to either radiator placement of crappy,low cfm fan/s. You shouldn't need or really want a 4 row since the extra restriction will basically stop the airflow through the core. This has been hashed over on many,many forums and in written literature for a very long time now. There is a reason why universally 50/50 distilled and antifreeze is recommended in an engine. On a side note 210 is absolutely not an issue. Hell even at230-240 which is perfectly fine for an engine to run at water will not boil if the cooling system is able to hold enough pressure. Here is a chart to show this. SOOOOO,forget the fancy stuff and get you cooling system airflow and system pressure up to par. 

Here is a chart showing the effect of pressure on boiling point . It's just physics. Honestly,don't worry yourself about keeping the water temp to any certain number like 210 or below. Just run enough system pressure to prevent boiling. Easy peasy. The YXZ's I have all run 220-240 all the time as yamaha designed them to do . I know how hard it is to get comfortable with the higher coolant temps but most all new stuff run hotter by design today. I run approx 33% antifreeze in the busa buggy and the same in the v8 with 20 psi caps. No issues at all.




i have never seen a chart like this and very good info. should make that a sticky note.
You asked,you received.   https://dtsfab.com/index.php?topic=5671.0   ;D
2
UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by dsrace on Yesterday at 01:26:51 PM »
Well,
It's been a busy year so far and haven't been on here in a while!!  Well I have done a couple things to the car as of lately.
I went from a 10" ebay fan to a 12" Spal curved blade fan, drained my coolant and used some Royal Purple "water wetter" type stuff.  What I used before was distilled water and water-wetter.  I used distilled water per Suzuki.  However that is mixed with antifreeze.  Well I guess distilled water will actually draw minerals out of the cooling jacket and reduce the cooling efficiency? Well, I now have purified drinking water and that Royal Purple additive.  All things combined, I can run it really REALLY hard in the dunes and it will get up to 210 with a 95* ambient air temp.  I don't push it past that, as I will stop for literally 30 seconds to a min. and it will drop to 190 and stay there under "normal" driving around on the dunes.  Possibly may go to a 4 row Civic rad vs the 2 row I currently have.

I also made some adapters for my bead-lock wheels!  It looks KILLER!  so from going from 8" wide wheels to a 10" wide wheel and 13" wide paddles there is more of a contact patch on the sand.  It really hooks up good now! 

I made some spring adjustments too.  Originally had 300# on the bottom and 250# on the top...WAY over-sprung.  I had 2" of shaft in the body..(LMAO)  I was hoping for 4-5" of shaft in the body..(LMFAO, married mans dream).  I did the math over and over and my simple mind said if you need to drop another 2" cut the poundage in half.  Well, my numbers matched up to the calculations that Downsouth Motorsports came up with.  I should be getting the new coils today.  150 on the bottom with 100 on the top.  This will allow me some pre-load if I needed.  Then I will have to test and possibly some valving.

This car is just too much damn fun!  Not sure if I want to start another build, or do a Busa swap with this car.  Looking at dyno numbers of the 750, bikes are seeing 55# ft of torque at 12k...the first gen busa has that at 2500 rpm...  And this car will pull the front wheels juuuust ever so slightly over a roller at 10-13k RPM.   


I'm sorry but I gotta call BS on that. The simple truth is that there is no better coolant than 100% distilled water. Is there a problem with running pure distilled? Yup,no corrosion inhibitors. That is why it needs at least some antifreeze in it. Water wetter products ,IMO,are just marketing hype and will absolutely not cool any better than water/antifreeze that also provides ample corrosion protection. If a person is having controlling temps it is simply a matter of either too small a radiator or much more likely too little airflow through the radiator due to either radiator placement of crappy,low cfm fan/s. You shouldn't need or really want a 4 row since the extra restriction will basically stop the airflow through the core. This has been hashed over on many,many forums and in written literature for a very long time now. There is a reason why universally 50/50 distilled and antifreeze is recommended in an engine. On a side note 210 is absolutely not an issue. Hell even at230-240 which is perfectly fine for an engine to run at water will not boil if the cooling system is able to hold enough pressure. Here is a chart to show this. SOOOOO,forget the fancy stuff and get you cooling system airflow and system pressure up to par. 

Here is a chart showing the effect of pressure on boiling point . It's just physics. Honestly,don't worry yourself about keeping the water temp to any certain number like 210 or below. Just run enough system pressure to prevent boiling. Easy peasy. The YXZ's I have all run 220-240 all the time as yamaha designed them to do . I know how hard it is to get comfortable with the higher coolant temps but most all new stuff run hotter by design today. I run approx 33% antifreeze in the busa buggy and the same in the v8 with 20 psi caps. No issues at all.




i have never seen a chart like this and very good info. should make that a sticky note.
3
UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by dsrace on Yesterday at 01:25:41 PM »
The answer to that is that there is no actual answer. Suspension tuning is a matter of driver preference and riding conditions within a big window of settings. You are within that window. What do YOU think will make you happy? Personally,I'd go out and drive it and see how you like it now. You made a HUGE spring rate change,need to try it out. As to having the ability to add some pre load if needed,yes you are right BUT you may be happy with the change you made  as it is.

i agree with fabr on this one.......tuning is how the driver likes it. setting up a rail for jumping is diff than a smooth ride and again in desert etc etc so set it how yo like it and so it doesn't bottom out.

i do like the idea of the kawi h2. fabr is right the busa has massive support as far as parts and high performance builds go. the yamaha 1.7 vmax is an awsome motor too but the aniversary edition must be a grey hair only bike cause no one seems to wreck them!  ;D ;D ;)
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UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by dsrace on Yesterday at 01:09:42 PM »
I will definitely keep the Kawi in mind.  The numbers look really good for sure. 

A little rear spring update.  I put the new coils on last night and bolted on my dirt wheels to take it for a little spin around a construction site near my house.  WOW!  It feels like riding on a cloud now!  There was a small jump if you will.  Normally if I were to hit something like that, it would kick the ass end up.  Not now!  The valving seems to be pretty good too.  I had it on the softest setting on the clicker and I think I can actually stiffen it up a tad.  I may actually now get a slightly lighter spring for the top on the front. 

The rear, I have 4.5" of shaft in the shock in the rear.  (14" shock using 12" of stroke.) 
The front I have 4" of shaft in the shock with a 10" shock.  Seems like I could go another inch into the shock.  This would level the car out and get that front down a little more.
Below is a picture of how the car sits now, with my lovely assistant behind the wheel.
 

Justin

really wondered until i saw this type as justing doens't sound female   LMAO LMAO
5
UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by fabr on Yesterday at 07:30:12 AM »
Well,
It's been a busy year so far and haven't been on here in a while!!  Well I have done a couple things to the car as of lately.
I went from a 10" ebay fan to a 12" Spal curved blade fan, drained my coolant and used some Royal Purple "water wetter" type stuff.  What I used before was distilled water and water-wetter.  I used distilled water per Suzuki.  However that is mixed with antifreeze.  Well I guess distilled water will actually draw minerals out of the cooling jacket and reduce the cooling efficiency?  Well, I now have purified drinking water and that Royal Purple additive.  All things combined, I can run it really REALLY hard in the dunes and it will get up to 210 with a 95* ambient air temp.  I don't push it past that, as I will stop for literally 30 seconds to a min. and it will drop to 190 and stay there under "normal" driving around on the dunes.  Possibly may go to a 4 row Civic rad vs the 2 row I currently have.


I thought I'd re-address this point. I called BS on it not because it is incorrect.  Water will always dissolve almost anything into it and make it more impure. That is a fact. SO,that said,yes distilled will draw minerals existing in the water jackets into it. Same with tap water. This is my take on this subject. If using brand new castings and radiator and all new coolant lines there is every reason to use distilled since there are no minerals to get dissolved into the distilled water. On a used block/heads,etc.,the use of distilled is still best practice but good clean tap will likely be just fine due to the fact distilled will "draw out "the deposited minerals coating the water jackets (so will tap water)and in effect turn it right back into tap water. Do I use distilled? Nope. I use 25-30ish% antifreeze to get the needed anti-corrosion and pump seal protection while keeping most of the good heat transfer that pure water would give.
6
UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by fabr on Yesterday at 07:00:27 AM »
Fabr,
GREAT INFO, and thanks for that chart!  I will be draining my system today and will fill er up with some distilled water and antifreeze.  Ya can't argue with what you have stated at all. 

And for the engines, I agree too with the engines.  I like to have the availability of parts, pieces and whatever may be needed at any given time for an common engine. 

Justin
Distilled is not an absolutely ,100%,gotta have it or disaster happens thing either. It is the best practice but good clean tap will work almost as well.
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UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by fabr on Yesterday at 06:57:22 AM »
The answer to that is that there is no actual answer. Suspension tuning is a matter of driver preference and riding conditions within a big window of settings. You are within that window. What do YOU think will make you happy? Personally,I'd go out and drive it and see how you like it now. You made a HUGE spring rate change,need to try it out. As to having the ability to add some pre load if needed,yes you are right BUT you may be happy with the change you made  as it is. 
8
UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by deranged on Yesterday at 05:26:25 AM »
So i made a quick spreadsheet of my available travel and shock stroke to see where I am at.

It looks like I have 10" of available travel with me in the car and near 11" in the front of available travel. 

So that being said, I think my ride height is pretty spot on, or should I drop down a spring size from 200 to maybe 150?  That will give me a window of adding some preload too.  I will have to crunch some numbers later today.

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UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by deranged on Yesterday at 04:53:08 AM »
I will definitely keep the Kawi in mind.  The numbers look really good for sure. 

A little rear spring update.  I put the new coils on last night and bolted on my dirt wheels to take it for a little spin around a construction site near my house.  WOW!  It feels like riding on a cloud now!  There was a small jump if you will.  Normally if I were to hit something like that, it would kick the ass end up.  Not now!  The valving seems to be pretty good too.  I had it on the softest setting on the clicker and I think I can actually stiffen it up a tad.  I may actually now get a slightly lighter spring for the top on the front. 

The rear, I have 4.5" of shaft in the shock in the rear.  (14" shock using 12" of stroke.) 
The front I have 4" of shaft in the shock with a 10" shock.  Seems like I could go another inch into the shock.  This would level the car out and get that front down a little more.
Below is a picture of how the car sits now, with my lovely assistant behind the wheel.
 

Justin
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UTV Member Project Logs / Re: AR-51 build
« Last post by Carlriddle on July 19, 2018, 09:16:29 AM »
The zx12 while I love it, can be a bitch.  Odd ball output sprocket spline, crank trigger is odd number signal.  I worked around it all, had computer stuff reprogrammed, dug up parts, made others.  The 12 revs snappy like a 1000 but w more torque.
 
If I was doing another, Kawasaki H2, or H2R if ya can find.  Factory supercharged sportbike. 
The busa is the king of aftermarket support, makes upgrades easier and cheaper.
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