DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)

Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: 78crew on February 21, 2018, 05:55:18 AM

Title: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 21, 2018, 05:55:18 AM
I will be receiving an a-arm kit here shortly and wanted to get started ordering parts to put it together with.  I had some questions and know that many of you are very intimate with this particular kit.  I know you have the answers I am seeking.  The only information I have so far is what I have read on the Sandparts.com description.  So here goes...

What bearings do I need to get for my spindle mount rims to work on the combo spindles?  I am assuming inner should be 62mm x 30mm and outer should be 52mm x 25mm?  Also, what is the inner seal size?  Is it the same as a VW or bigger?

The description mentioned that the spindle threads were 3/4" fine.  Does that mean that they are both right hand threads or is there left and a right thread?  Can I just get a couple of 3/4" castle nuts for this and use cotter pins?

What, in your experience, is the best shocks to use?  I have an old set of nitrogen Fox 14" stroke shocks (smooth without springs).  They are pretty long though (about 37" extended).  Will these work or am I better off getting something shorter?

Do you have any advise on lower shock mounting?  Any detailed pictures showing how others have done the lower shock mounts?

Is there an ideal buggy length/wheelbase to shoot for?  Eventually I want to get a bigger engine.  I want to keep the buggy as light as possible but don't want to have something that I can't keep the front wheels on the ground. 

Well... that's it for now.  I must run off to work.  Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 21, 2018, 08:36:50 AM
i too run one on my sand rail. have for the last going on 7 years now and absolutely love it. my only complaint is the builder is an a$$hole to deal with  LMAO. 

ok so the spindles are combo spindles. pretty much all the parts store carry there bearings. now if you are running spindle mount rims, then determine if they were the larger center bore rim or not. if not, then you need to replace them. if they are then fullerten sand sports has all that info and bearings for them to go from link pin to combo. the spindles come with spindle nuts, nylock lock nuts and bored for cotter pins. yes they are both right hand thread. never been an issue and i have never installed the cotterb pin on my own.             

  14" fox air shocks are just to big, imo,  can be done, will look funny and will be tricky to tune but yes you can always use them if you really want to. if your 3x3 with 19.25" axles and holding  26* max on cv's for wheel travel.... then 10" stroke air shock in front is more than enough unless you want coil overs. thats up to you and both will work.  say 16" travel in rear really only need 18" up front. shock placement will be configured for this but set the front chassis 2" higher than rear ( ground clearence) then lean shock in and measure angle, wheel to shock ratioetc etc but if this placement works ( and has for majority of users) then go with it. most likely this will work for you too. there is a bit more to it than that and sounds like fastcorvairs will be close by to help, he knows all this first hand.   i have found that, the 10" stroke fox air at about 20* to 22* (lean in) will get you close. if going with fox 2.0 air 10"  then mark at marks sand trans is a good place to buy them. ask for 60 comp and 2-1 or 90 rebound (i pre fer 2-1 rebound that's personal preference though). i am no expert but this is a good starting point. prob need to charge them 250 psi and 10 cc additional oil in the end.           

ok as far as wheelbase.....depends on goals, to wheelie or not to wheelie lol       

 lower shock mounts come welded on lower a arms unless specified differently before ordering.  measure wheel base before starting with beam still on. i say this as the rear trailing arms are usually off on aligment so align before starting. there is an inch or two you can cut off the cradle to shorten but i doubt you will want to. 1st thing to do is level the chassis front to rear and side to side. focus on the front if not possible to get both level. rare to find a square chassis esp in the old beam frames. 

 so once you get all that done drop the beam off and start cutting the inner structure back to the first cross tube. no need to cut the outers at this point as your not sure how your going to connect the out upper and lower to the cradle at this point. level the cradle and square it to the chassis. the best way imo to do this is to  measure diagnolly off the lower a arm tabs back to the torsion housing. this of course assumes its welded in straight and most likely isnt but thats what you setting the trailing arms off of and with little to no adjustment as they are trailing arms. none the less imo thats a good place to square off of and should make the front end easier to align.     

again just my opinnion the final decision is the installers.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 21, 2018, 06:30:19 PM
not to hijack anything but received some pics from a customer that installed his in a baja bug. not sure why but someone must have split this posting?? anyway thought i would share some pics. set up for 18" wheel travel in the front.


(https://s9.postimage.org/zbnzg8d6j/thumbnail_IMG_2049.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/zbnzg8d6j/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/x73mf5yp7/thumbnail_IMG_2062.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/x73mf5yp7/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/812o8bhzf/thumbnail_IMG_2352.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/812o8bhzf/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/9svn38w7f/thumbnail_IMG_2591.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/9svn38w7f/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/e20d5ecbf/thumbnail_IMG_2650.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/e20d5ecbf/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/bkoly57uj/thumbnail_IMG_2651.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/bkoly57uj/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/4u84oq04b/thumbnail_IMG_2652.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/4u84oq04b/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 21, 2018, 06:39:47 PM
Thank you very much for the information.  That gives me somewhere to start.  I am excited to see how much better it will handle once all done.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 21, 2018, 06:44:49 PM
it will be a major improvement. now if you decide you the standard universal lower shock mount location doesn't work let me know and i will build new blanks for you. since your a member and a friend of fastcorvairs. ship the yours back and i can ship new ones out, if the location doesn't work. i spoke with fast about this.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 21, 2018, 09:12:09 PM
i too run one on my sand rail. have for the last going on 7 years now and absolutely love it. my only complaint is the builder is an a$$hole to deal with  LMAO. 



I know the effer and yes he is.  ;) ;) :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Carlriddle on February 22, 2018, 05:23:50 AM
i too run one on my sand rail. have for the last going on 7 years now and absolutely love it. my only complaint is the builder is an a$$hole to deal with  LMAO. 



I know the effer and yes he is.  ;) ;) :m
He's fine aslong as you ceramic coat his new turbo like you were suppose too.  kick
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 06:09:26 AM
 rofl  i'm waiting for a call back but as many know my patience wear thin then i start calling and thats where thing usually spiral out of control  5: LMAO
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 22, 2018, 11:13:11 AM
I know the feeling. I called JE Pistons this morning and they had no idea where my piston was I sent in for inspection. Had to drive home to get tracking info . When I called them back,they had found it.   Well,at least, it wasn't lost . Said they would get on it quickly. We'll see.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 01:01:45 PM
iam dealing with full force diesel. so i do have to say that they called me promptly at 8:30 am this morning! kaydon had already looked up tracking #`s, pulled up invoices and spoke with staff so he had all the answers up front. they again have my respect and applause! the gal in charge of shipping didnt send the first invoice and ordered the turbo with turbine housing rather than a super core. so my thermal coated housing is on its way just seperate with all the other parts i had thermal coated. he said the mishap occured because i am the first to request the hot side thermal coated. up pipe and down pipes all the time just no exh housing. all handled , poor communication from this gal but i know they have talked to her lol     all in all , at this point in time, i am very pleased with this company.....kaydon in particular.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 22, 2018, 01:52:46 PM
Brodix has been stellar . I picked up my #3 set of heads yesterday. I bought 8 new titanium intake valves,16 new guides,hone guides to size,valve job,surface decks and intake flanges and apparently got a FREE set of valve seals AND exhaust valves since the bill was for the initial estimate less ex valves and seals!!!!!!! Hell the last set of Ti intakes cost me more than all of this together.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 03:32:29 PM
titanium valves... that would be nice! ya sounds like this company is better on there prices but customer service and parts. he customer service goes a long ways but most companies just don't care anymore!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Punkur67 on February 22, 2018, 06:10:16 PM
This topic got side tracked
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 06:26:12 PM
i noticed that too....not sure how it happened but happens sometimes lol
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 22, 2018, 07:21:40 PM
This topic got side tracked
Well ,if you knew the guy that made those front ends you would understand how the topic got sidetracked..........................I mean,the front ends side track as well............................









 This is just bs1 though ,honestly,they are very well designed front suspensions. They work quite well. DS makes them.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 07:27:10 PM
 LMAO ya i do get side tracted from time to time lol
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 07:33:12 PM
so lets put this back on topic just for punkur  ;) ;D   

this will be a bit lengthy  ;D

     so interesting email last week. dale from sand parts.com emailed me with a question from his customer ( the pics of the baja bug) asking if there was a diff rack that would fit as he feels the front end steers to fast. i replied stating this is the first time i have ever been asked this question. its not a go to answer like most places that say "we've never heard of that issue before" lol personal favorite of mine. however in this case i have never heard this question asked so i was intrigued. so i replied stating there are 2 style steering quickeners available through speed way motors. i attached direct links as this makes understanding by seeing what i`m speaking of easier imo. i linked 1.5 :1 and 2:1 and said flip them over and reduce. i have never tried it but in theory i think it would work?!? after responding i asked dale for the customers contact info as i would like to understand such a request.

dale cc'd me into the reply and informed the customer of this and asked permission for contact info to be given. now i fully appreciate this approach. so his response said ya definitely , he would like to ask some questions and included his cell #. he also said he is trying to tame down the bump steer. now the issue has changed now and not surprising as we all perceive things differently but i also know that many do not align my front ends as stated and this will create bump. a trailing arm  rear end also not properly aligned will set the front end into what could  be perceived as bump steer as well. username deano experienced this after i personally converted his chassis then called me and i knew for a fact it wasn't the front end as i set it on the money before it left! so i asked that he and transman check the rear as i didn't and should've.

i called the customer and chatted a bit about his issue. now based on the pics and what he told me on the phone he has done a very good job on the install.  his complaint was that while driving down a rutted dirt road or trail that every rut or washout hole he hit that the wheel would twitch left of right. i asked if the front end was steering left or right as well. he said no it tracks straight as he can let go of the wheel and it continued straight but the wheel would twitch left and right, back and fourth. didn't matter if the wheel stroked 2" or 15" it's the twitch or jerk in the wheel but again doesn't self steer back and fourth.


the reason i post this as i would like some input from others........i call this steering feed back however is there another term for this?  with a manual rack and pinion i don't believe you can tune feedback out but can minimize it with a shock like the stock vw's used or eps ( electric power steering). i know my eps took 95% of the feed back out depending on level of assist.

now also, come to find out, he had a slight mishap, bent one lower a-arm, understands why/ how and openly admits it was his fault. he didn't care as he wanted a narrower front end any way so he made a jig and built new arms but 2" shorter per side i believe. he said the steering wheel does the same as is did before down a very harsh road. he is also running 10" wide tires up front as well.  it sounded like he understood and caught the design in my a arms that most don't and included it in his new arms. he has not aligned the front end as i specified as he wanted it just a little different. such changes will effect bump steer but for those that know and understand front ends, he is only using 18" out of 24" travel so this minimizes bump steer if the design is good to close. when we run across the rutted out sand at LS i feel what i call feed back in my wheel before eps.now i don't and it's wonderful!  ;)


so to sum it all up.....

what idea's do others have to reduce feedback with a manual rack and pinion?

i know this isn't bump steer ( in it's most known form)  in the sense the front end steers left or right but just the steering wheel twitch's back and fourth. 
  would you call this feedback?

i did suggest fast's rack snuggy for adjustments but as we all know this will have nothing to do with a steering wheel twitching.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 08:08:22 PM
one thing to note also is he chose a wider rim with a higher offset along with a wider tire so if you look in the pics the scrub is off a bit. the spindles have a true 10* sai ( king pin angle) with a 8.5" spacing top to bottom. note that all that look like these at shops like kustom 1 or moore parts etc etc are not 10* as advertised they are in fact 5*. i have bought from 3 diff sources and checked.





also i do have to add that this customer is very pleased overall with the quality and said this was the easiest front end to install. yes that's a plug for myself  ;D ;D rofl 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 22, 2018, 08:15:03 PM
How much offset do his wheels have?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 22, 2018, 08:18:59 PM
oops,question answered. I think the offset greatly exaggerates the feedback he is getting. So does the wider tires. Another thing,how much angle is in the steering shaft uj/uj's? Are they timed correctly?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 10:15:30 PM
oops,question answered. I think the offset greatly exaggerates the feedback he is getting. So does the wider tires. Another thing,how much angle is in the steering shaft uj/uj's? Are they timed correctly?

all good questions however i didn't ask but based on the pics close to min back space which i belive is 2 or 2.5". we did discuss clocking/timing the u joints on the steering shafts, he didn't know but does now.  yes i agree that will help clocking/timing will/could help.

another thing he said i forgot to mention is that when he drops air psi to 8 psi the effects are greatly reduced. again i consider this feed back up through the steering wheel, if using this term correctly so if not please correct, as the purpose of this forum is to get it correct!!  i do not know the steering angle on the steering u joints either.  now getting the alignment correct will not have a significant effect on  feed back imo but may help to reduce it. based on the pics as well as knowing for sure that the spindle i use ( custom built for me by doug heim btw so credits to doug) do in fact have 10* sai. as such the scrub angle is based on a 31" tall tire on a 6" wide spindle mount rim so in other word center mounted. brakes will move the wheel out so then on say a 5.5" ( more common) a 3.5" back space would be more appropriate. that being said customer that purchase through sand parts.com don't know this as dale doesn't know it. customers that purchase direct via dts do know this as i inform them of this before wheel purchase. i run a 5.5" cms rim with 3.5 back space on 9.50 dirt tires and the 8.80 razor backs.

so i must include that these front ends are designed with 10* caster. the spindles ship with 3- 1/8" thick washers zip tied to a good starting point. these washers are two fold.......for quick adjustment of caster with out loosening heims like shims. the washer on the steering heim allows up to 1/8" shim top or bottom for tie rod placement for6* or 8* caster. i think most of us know what 1/8" up or down on tire rod location does to bump steer when pushing travel to its extreme limits!!!!

 i have tested to know that 8* to 10* work just fine. i know the " industry ideal stated" is 4-6* but i pre fer 10* so that is how i have always set them up. i feel no diff between 8* or 10*. this customer had set them at 6*. again though he is only using 18" travel so it is minimized and seems to be working on the bump steer front. i told him to set at 8* then try 10* and report back.

so he also knows now that one has to set alignment with the wheels off the ground lol but he also discovered that caster on 1 spindle is 6* and 5* on the other. said something must have shifted when setting. this could be true but at the same time when we set these numbers with all bolts loose then when we tighten things move in diff directions and can make unwanted changes. i stress to triple check tighten bolts and re check. simple adjustment to make if once you know what direction every thing is pulled upon tightening.  getting the alignment set just right takes time and patience lol unfortunate i don't practice what i preach as i set mine close 5 years ago and have checked it once since. i know it's " good enough" lol and tracks very well at 80+ mph on the hwy ........don't anyone run them down the hwy, were not designed for that and it's illegal.  :D  rofl  LMAO luckily i don't live in a town or city so just have combines and tractors to pass and waive at  ;) ;)

if you notice the rotor appears to be flush with the inside of the rim. the hub isn't much farther forward or atleast on my front brakes.
(https://s9.postimage.org/3p17h4uln/thumbnail_IMG_2062.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/3p17h4uln/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 10:16:43 PM
this discussion will be good info for 78crew and his buds fast and jerry when they help.  ;D

i don't put that gusset in the upper a arm anymore and the bumpers were for an idea for a customer. that gusset proved to get in the way of coil overs.

(https://s9.postimage.org/4ftxmmubf/thumbnail_DSCN3086.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/4ftxmmubf/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/ed4yfp9mz/thumbnail_DSCN3088.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/ed4yfp9mz/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/3qb5aa97f/thumbnail_DSCN3092.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/3qb5aa97f/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 22, 2018, 10:34:20 PM
always like these customers ideas/builds.



(https://s9.postimage.org/hy0tyvogb/thumbnail_021.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/hy0tyvogb/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/5w5g4qmxn/thumbnail_do3.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/5w5g4qmxn/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/n9fqjlxob/thumbnail_IMG_0318.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/n9fqjlxob/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/j0b0hg24r/thumbnail_IMG_0335.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/j0b0hg24r/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/ai1kd5dmj/thumbnail_008.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/ai1kd5dmj/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/6lo8h60cr/thumbnail_010.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/6lo8h60cr/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/6yfmncqcb/thumbnail_011.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/6yfmncqcb/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 23, 2018, 10:04:29 AM
oops,question answered. I think the offset greatly exaggerates the feedback he is getting. So does the wider tires. Another thing,how much angle is in the steering shaft uj/uj's? Are they timed correctly?

all good questions however i didn't ask but based on the pics close to min back space which i belive is 2 or 2.5". we did discuss clocking/timing the u joints on the steering shafts, he didn't know but does now.  yes i agree that will help clocking/timing will/could help.

another thing he said i forgot to mention is that when he drops air psi to 8 psi the effects are greatly reduced. again i consider this feed back up through the steering wheel, if using this term correctly so if not please correct, as the purpose of this forum is to get it correct!!  i do not know the steering angle on the steering u joints either.  now getting the alignment correct will not have a significant effect on  feed back imo but may help to reduce it. based on the pics as well as knowing for sure that the spindle i use ( custom built for me by doug heim btw so credits to doug) do in fact have 10* sai. as such the scrub angle is based on a 31" tall tire on a 6" wide spindle mount rim so in other word center mounted. brakes will move the wheel out so then on say a 5.5" ( more common) a 3.5" back space would be more appropriate. that being said customer that purchase through sand parts.com don't know this as dale doesn't know it. customers that purchase direct via dts do know this as i inform them of this before wheel purchase. i run a 5.5" cms rim with 3.5 back space on 9.50 dirt tires and the 8.80 razor backs.

so i must include that these front ends are designed with 10* caster. the spindles ship with 3- 1/8" thick washers zip tied to a good starting point. these washers are two fold.......for quick adjustment of caster with out loosening heims like shims. the washer on the steering heim allows up to 1/8" shim top or bottom for tie rod placement for6* or 8* caster. i think most of us know what 1/8" up or down on tire rod location does to bump steer when pushing travel to its extreme limits!!!!

 i have tested to know that 8* to 10* work just fine. i know the " industry ideal stated" is 4-6* but i pre fer 10* so that is how i have always set them up. i feel no diff between 8* or 10*. this customer had set them at 6*. again though he is only using 18" travel so it is minimized and seems to be working on the bump steer front. i told him to set at 8* then try 10* and report back.

so he also knows now that one has to set alignment with the wheels off the ground lol but he also discovered that caster on 1 spindle is 6* and 5* on the other. said something must have shifted when setting. this could be true but at the same time when we set these numbers with all bolts loose then when we tighten things move in diff directions and can make unwanted changes. i stress to triple check tighten bolts and re check. simple adjustment to make if once you know what direction every thing is pulled upon tightening.  getting the alignment set just right takes time and patience lol unfortunate i don't practice what i preach as i set mine close 5 years ago and have checked it once since. i know it's " good enough" lol and tracks very well at 80+ mph on the hwy ........don't anyone run them down the hwy, were not designed for that and it's illegal.  :D  rofl  LMAO luckily i don't live in a town or city so just have combines and tractors to pass and waive at  ;) ;)

if you notice the rotor appears to be flush with the inside of the rim. the hub isn't much farther forward or atleast on my front brakes.
(https://s9.postimg.org/3p17h4uln/thumbnail_IMG_2062.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3p17h4uln/)
I'LL ADD THAT ,IN GENERAL,THE ALIGNMENT NEEDS SET AT RIDE HEIGHT. Any deviation from that skews the numbers .Put another way pick a height to set it and always use the same height when making changes or you will be chasing your tail.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 10:29:12 AM
agree

i always lift mine off the ground to set it all. simple to do and always an equal starting point.     everything starts with proper alignment and no denying that but.....that still wouldn't reduce or remove feedback to the steering wheel. not sure there is any way to do that with out a shock dampener like the stock vw used but def agree higher offset tires and wider tires will exaggerate it. wonder if longer steering arms on the spindles would reduce that via leverage???
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 23, 2018, 11:40:36 AM
agree

i always lift mine off the ground to set it all. simple to do and always an equal starting point.     everything starts with proper alignment and no denying that but.....that still wouldn't reduce or remove feedback to the steering wheel. not sure there is any way to do that with out a shock dampener like the stock vw used but def agree higher offset tires and wider tires will exaggerate it. wonder if longer steering arms on the spindles would reduce that via leverage???
Putting it another way,I think,short steering arms that achieve faster steering ratios like we desire,but it is that fast ratio that will exaggerate the feedback.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 11:49:32 AM
true in the end the only way to get all you want is to design it for your chassis but not possible in the case of a " universal" fitment.    i dont see a way to tune out feedeback from an a arm front end with a manual rack w/o the use of a shock ( bandaid imo) or eps. eps would be my choice.                      hey enemy have i told you how much i like my powersteering  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO  LMAO :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 11:50:20 AM
and ya ya i know you really like your 1st gear too  bs1 rofl beathorse.gif~c200 :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 23, 2018, 12:06:21 PM
As for a steering dampner,I have always wondered about using one. I feel it would be a very good addition but haven't seen anyone do it.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 23, 2018, 12:09:52 PM
I haven't noticed any dramatic reduction in the feedback with EPS,just a LOT easier steering.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 12:29:45 PM
I haven't noticed any dramatic reduction in the feedback with EPS,just a LOT easier steering.

i definitely have a reduction in feedback with my eps. along with easier to steer. i am pretty sure david colson's rail felt a reduction in feed back and i knwo scott smiths did!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
here is a link to the a-arm kit on sand parts site      http://www.sandparts.com/A-Arm-Conversion-Kit-Long-Travel-Beam-Car-Conversion-or-Mini-Rail_p_72771.html

just so people know
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 23, 2018, 01:37:39 PM
I haven't noticed any dramatic reduction in the feedback with EPS,just a LOT easier steering.

i definitely have a reduction in feedback with my eps. along with easier to steer. i am pretty sure david colson's rail felt a reduction in feed back and i knwo scott smiths did!
^^^^ :D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Enemy on February 23, 2018, 02:04:29 PM
Yup..
Got yer "feedback" right here DS...


Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 02:12:47 PM
Yup..
Got yer "feedback" right here DS...
                 rofl rofl LMAO LMAO    beathorse.gif~c200 beathorse.gif~c200 to  LMAO rofl
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 23, 2018, 06:27:17 PM
in a previous post there was small pics of a blue rail. they were cell pics but i did get one of full size of it finished.


(https://s9.postimage.org/iug5gxvtn/20151205_130740.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/iug5gxvtn/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/9mnx08wh7/thumbnail_20151205_130719.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/9mnx08wh7/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 12:23:28 PM
78 crew....per our phone converstaion, here is the FB link to nick mailloux and the trailing arms he builds. he builds them for woods buggies and look stout. i'll see if i can't snag a pic or two to post so everyone that runs TA's can look them over and help you decide. he makes stock stub axle style and micro stub style. micro stub allows for a longer axle  which = more travel but also requires purchasing more parts for the swap. the pics are standard 3x3 and 3x5 with micro stubs. he makes them any config. his # is  260 706 1769 posted on his home page.

 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208700125979205&set=pcb.1971755162838817&type=3&theater&ifg=1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208737790760801&set=pcb.1978784608802539&type=3&theater&ifg=1

his home page    https://www.facebook.com/nick.mailloux.1?fref=gs&hc_ref=ARQ8vwAhKKlU9v9ZTqHVYrUZ9aNBRpM0X9yUeprKSCLgu62k1wla5sLZUybZTImUdu0&dti=1456235651057440&hc_location=group
(https://s9.postimage.org/y8jhf3nbv/27858152_10208700126539219_1019904722316611186_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/y8jhf3nbv/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/n8ya3ik23/27971738_10208700125979205_1878147748453996717_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/n8ya3ik23/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/c9d2rx1cr/28055810_10208700126859227_4285560273990781027_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/c9d2rx1cr/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/8pr523bhn/28056393_10208737791440818_3833478848304923368_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/8pr523bhn/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/a4spqu7fv/28058373_10208700127059232_3337820985275134537_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/a4spqu7fv/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/y8jhf4xmj/28059245_10208737791000807_235462089274417269_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/y8jhf4xmj/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/kev4q3cqz/28168274_10208700126259212_1032753956976275751_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/kev4q3cqz/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/eqotz7g4b/28278996_10208737790760801_7471989201106122416_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/eqotz7g4b/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 12:33:42 PM
since you seem to have a high side barrien chassis.....post a couple good pics of your buggy. measure these two spots.



(https://s9.postimage.org/r6ljsywln/929rr3.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/r6ljsywln/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 01:04:34 PM
which one do you have?      http://acmecarco.com/berrien-buggy/sand-rails/2-seat
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 24, 2018, 02:07:15 PM
Mine is the Venture 2 seater.  I will post some pictures up when I get a little time. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 03:17:40 PM
i have always like the shape of the upper nose where it welds to the suspension cradle. i know it's not everyone's cup of tea for but the way the upper frame is bent in then back straight leaves a very nice pocket to mount a shock.
(https://s9.postimage.org/l23oqg2rf/images.duckduckgo.com.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/l23oqg2rf/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 03:18:33 PM
venture  chassis...says 100" wheel base.  using a beam of course.
(https://s9.postimage.org/5gmd6olq3/venture.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/5gmd6olq3/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
here is a way to approximate wheel base. from the inside edge of the rear lower a arm tab to the center of the bottom spindle is 12".
(https://s9.postimage.org/ut10gdbi3/thumbnail_IMG_20180224_165933.png) (https://postimage.org/image/ut10gdbi3/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 24, 2018, 10:14:41 PM
Here are a few pictures of the buggy before new a-arms. 

(https://s18.postimg.org/6y6i0xgh1/20180224_133752.jpg) (https://purtostimg.org/image/6y6i0xgh1/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/6lf3uqqhh/20180224_133849.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6lf3uqqhh/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/yyall74hx/20180224_133921.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yyall74hx/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/zb1zrd7c5/20180224_134656_001.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/zb1zrd7c5/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 24, 2018, 10:21:06 PM
For comparison.....


(https://s18.postimg.org/yyallbeth/20180224_132135.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yyallbeth/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/h88x09tit/20180224_132148.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/h88x09tit/)

As you can see it will be significantly wider.  It looks like if I attach the cradle to the front horizontal bar that runs across the lower side bars, the wheels will move forward about 2 inches from where they are with the beam.  I am thinking of lengthening the two tubes on the back of the cradle to give me a little bit more length.  That seems easier than moving the existing bar forward.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 24, 2018, 10:25:44 PM
Thanks for putting out the information for the trailing arms.  Those look very nice.  I will have to look into getting a pair. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 24, 2018, 11:26:51 PM
should match 3x3 ta`s. his ta`s do look very nice. you can extend the tubes or add a 2nd cross tube farther forward. i would thin k 105 to 106" wheel base would a good size. just my opinion though. i`m sure others will chime in with experience or opinions as well. with the a arms flat out it is at its widest but at full droop narrower. my rear engine 3.8 v6 rail was 106" wheel base and my current mid engine is 115". diff designs though.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 09:29:45 AM
you asked about wheel base soooo as a sort of visual reference...... the blue rail is my old 3800 series II v6 rear engine rail i built almost 8 years ago and ran for 3 years. it's 106" wheel base and the lower shock mounts are 1/4" thick flat plate, cut to shape and butt welded to the lower arm.  1/2" tube welded through for a 1/2" bolt, wanted to try this on my own rail before anyone else's and worked quite well. still holding strong to this day up at silver lake sand dunes. both rails have the same front end you have less lower shock mount.


(https://s9.postimage.org/b95bg5ivf/DSCN2914.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/b95bg5ivf/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/kgxjwv5d7/DSCN2932.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/kgxjwv5d7/)

this is my current rail but mid engine and 115" wheel base.


(https://s9.postimage.org/evb4sf74r/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/evb4sf74r/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 25, 2018, 06:04:51 PM
How long are the front shocks on those buggies you showed?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 07:43:05 PM
the blue rail has 2.0 fox 12" stroke n20 and red one has 12" stroke 2.5 fox n20. do not use the 2.5 n20 on the front.....trust me on this one. remember mine have 24" wheel travel. 16" to 18" won't need 12" stroke imo. i think 10" would prob be best. 

10" are 27.43" fully extended and 12" stroke are 31", in a fox 2.0 n20.  2.5" fox n20 have a 3" taller body which is why i had to drop mine below the a arms.  http://markssandtrans.com/FoxShox5.html
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 25, 2018, 10:04:58 PM
Right now I am liking the way this person set up their front shocks.  I am not sure if his shocks are 10" or 12" shocks (my guess is 10").  I like the looks of his shock hoops and the angular braces which tie the hoops into the center crossbar on this blue buggy.  My white buggy already has upper cross bracing and I think I will leave it, or at least most of it.  I can put in two tubes that go from the main upper crossbar down and back to the lower crossbar.  That will give me something to weld the top mounting tubes of the a-arm cradle to.  I can also weld braces front the shock hoops to that same upper crossbar much like the braces on the blue buggy shown below.  Hopefully with 10" shocks the shock hoops won't have to be too high up above the upper horizontal side frame bar.  I am sure it is hard to follow what I am talking about.   
       
(https://s18.postimg.org/5iw73r211/sandrail_027.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5iw73r211/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/515n23jyt/20170530_085338.png) (https://postimg.org/image/515n23jyt/)

I was also thinking of making the nose of the buggy flat and making an an aluminum skid plate which follows along the front of the lower curve on the a-arm cradle.  Of course, all my plans may change.  Nothing is set in concrete.   ;D

Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 10:16:23 PM
sounds like you have a good plan in place! i'm sure it will change a bit here and there....it always does lol

those are 10" stroke shocks. you can kind of tell considering the spindle up right bolt spacing is 8.5" on center. he did  a nice job on his install for sure.

are you still thinking about cutting the bracing and spreading the frame up 3"?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 10:22:30 PM
no matter what you do just make sure the upper a arm clears the frame on the top side. and skid plates come in very handy sometimes lol
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 10:31:36 PM
?
(https://s9.postimage.org/3rnfg3d2j/001.png) (https://postimage.org/image/3rnfg3d2j/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 25, 2018, 10:32:20 PM
Yes.  The plan is to cut the two vertical sidebars (the vertical bar under the windshield and the smaller vertical bar which is up toward the front of the buggy).  I think we can spread them apart then insert a short piece of tubing back between the cut and weld it back up.  I really don't think it is going to need to go 3".  I think it will take only 1-1/2" to 2" to get that upper bar high enough to tie into the upper front bars.  Actually, I think the lower bar is more likely to move down than the upper is to move up.  Either way, they should move apart.  i will make sure the a-arms clear.  The plan is to start cutting tomorrow morning.   
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 25, 2018, 10:35:36 PM
That picture you drew up is pretty much what I was thinking, except that I was not planning on putting in the two long tubes from the windshield down to the front of the buggy.  Do you think they are needed?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 10:43:38 PM
if you use fox air shocks ( nitorgen n20) then 2.0's are good in the front but not enough for the rear! need 2.5's for the rear.

if your spreading the frame then take the top main tubes to the nose and then you won't need the top 2 i drew.

here's a few that username big dave never posted lol i'm posting them in reference to the flat nose and shock hoop.

(https://s9.postimage.org/lvqg0p863/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/lvqg0p863/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/toh3sotkr/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/toh3sotkr/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/yzw0de7xn/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/yzw0de7xn/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/b8wmvauvv/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/b8wmvauvv/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/efr6ex7m3/Photo02191753951.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/efr6ex7m3/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/hmlpyk7hn/Photo02192003.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/hmlpyk7hn/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 25, 2018, 10:46:22 PM
(https://s9.postimage.org/udzw5amh7/0212142142.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/udzw5amh7/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/6zrwthevf/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/6zrwthevf/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 25, 2018, 10:57:02 PM
Those give me something to think about.  I hadn't thought of doing it that way.  It sure does give the a-arms lots of room.  What I was thinking of is something simple like this and with the shock hoops you drew up.  I tried drawing hoops and shocks on there but it proved to be above my abilities. 

(https://s18.postimg.org/9qvkqrvkl/20170530_085338.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9qvkqrvkl/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 25, 2018, 11:00:13 PM
I need to go to bed for tonight.  I am sure it is even later for you than me.  Thanks for staying up and taking the time to help me work out some ideas.  I will be sure to take some pictures as I start.   
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 06:42:21 AM
Those give me something to think about.  I hadn't thought of doing it that way.  It sure does give the a-arms lots of room.  What I was thinking of is something simple like this and with the shock hoops you drew up.  I tried drawing hoops and shocks on there but it proved to be above my abilities. 

(https://s18.postimg.org/9qvkqrvkl/20170530_085338.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9qvkqrvkl/)

this looks good to. it really comes down to what you want it to look like. as long as the cradle is welded in correctly and the top of the nose as well us center on the rear is supported then the rest is just a look. i pre fer to extend the frame out to the top of the cradle but that's just my preference. post up pics a long the way so we lend idea's lol we're all real good at idea's  ;D ;)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on February 26, 2018, 07:23:07 AM
if you use fox air shocks ( nitorgen n20) then 2.0's are good in the front but not enough for the rear! need 2.5's for the rear.

if your spreading the frame then take the top main tubes to the nose and then you won't need the top 2 i drew.

here's a few that username big dave never posted lol i'm posting them in reference to the flat nose and shock hoop.

(https://s9.postimg.org/lvqg0p863/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lvqg0p863/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/toh3sotkr/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/toh3sotkr/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/yzw0de7xn/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yzw0de7xn/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/b8wmvauvv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b8wmvauvv/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/efr6ex7m3/Photo02191753951.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/efr6ex7m3/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/hmlpyk7hn/Photo02192003.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hmlpyk7hn/)
Looks like some facebook stocking going on.  :m LMAO
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on February 26, 2018, 07:24:54 AM

(https://s9.postimg.org/krt038va3/IMG_0230.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/krt038va3/)

hard to see in this pic. but this is what I ended up doing.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on February 26, 2018, 07:27:01 AM
just another look
(https://s9.postimg.org/4i2tzz2i3/IMG_E3402.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4i2tzz2i3/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 26, 2018, 08:14:49 AM
And another close up look at a ds front end............................. :m :m :m JUST KIDDING YOU GUYS!!!!!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 08:31:16 AM
just another look
(https://s9.postimg.org/4i2tzz2i3/IMG_E3402.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4i2tzz2i3/)
      nice pics big dave and glad you didnt go with that big shock hoop......it turned out real nice. the power steering addition on big daves  rail is what prompted me to look deeper into one for myself, along with all the info and feedback he gave me .
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 08:33:20 AM
And another close up look at a ds front end............................. :m :m :m JUST KIDDING YOU GUYS!!!!!!
          how long have you been holding onto the photo for just this occasion????    kick rofl  beathorse.gif~c200  beathorse.gif~c200  bs1  LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO      sad to say i have seen others attempts that weren`t far off from that.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 26, 2018, 09:12:45 AM
And another close up look at a ds front end............................. :m :m :m JUST KIDDING YOU GUYS!!!!!!
          how long have you been holding onto the photo for just this occasion????    kick rofl  beathorse.gif~c200  beathorse.gif~c200  bs1  LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO      sad to say i have seen others attempts that weren`t far off from that.
LMAO LMAO LMAO
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 26, 2018, 12:15:06 PM
I started cutting the buggy up today.  Here are a few pictures.  There is a no going back now. 

(https://s18.postimg.org/ycn0atyf9/20180226_085802.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ycn0atyf9/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/3tx7qg9et/20180226_085811.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3tx7qg9et/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/5lq6lcl1x/20180226_091047.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5lq6lcl1x/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/a8w8mjno5/20180226_091054.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/a8w8mjno5/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/o2klbl0tx/20180226_091420.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o2klbl0tx/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/glbdwxobp/20180226_091428.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/glbdwxobp/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
excellent start, that's how i would be cutting it......now extend the upper frame out to the top of the cradle with a straight edge and see how close you are base on the lift in the pics. what little you spread the frame members shouldn't have changed the look or shape of the roll cage.  great feeling to cut your own frame up isn't it?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 01:39:49 PM
did your front tires rub that paint off the frame?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on February 26, 2018, 08:15:47 PM
It looks like it only needs to spread apart about 2" in order to run the top bars across the top of the cradle.  It moves fairly easy.  I won't be able to really get going on the serious work until next week.  Today,  I ordered my shocks, as per your recommendations, and they should be here the end of the week.  It is a little unnerving to cut up the frame but I am pleased with how the plan is coming together.   It helps to have friends helping along the way.  And Yes, the front tires did  rub on the frame when turning sharp. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on February 26, 2018, 08:18:39 PM
You will be really,really,really,happy you did this.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 08:22:57 PM
the best part of the conversion is the comfortable ride. i`m sure fast and jerry are lending a hand  :) ;)  won`t have an issue with tire rub again lol i`m sure mark was helpful choosing shocks too. this is your rail and your decision but i personally like the existing upper frame tubes extending out to the top of the cradle. it makes it look like it was built that way imo.  take your time and get it the way you want it.  fabr is right you WILL enjoy the ride!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 26, 2018, 08:26:03 PM
and fyi.......i always get akick when i get to cut the nose off one and send the owner a pic of laying on the floor  rofl i know it makes them nervous but they are all very happy with the new look and especially the ride and forget about that shocking picture  :D 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on February 28, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
if you use fox air shocks ( nitorgen n20) then 2.0's are good in the front but not enough for the rear! need 2.5's for the rear.

if your spreading the frame then take the top main tubes to the nose and then you won't need the top 2 i drew.

here's a few that username big dave never posted lol i'm posting them in reference to the flat nose and shock hoop.

(https://s9.postimg.org/lvqg0p863/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/lvqg0p863/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/toh3sotkr/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/toh3sotkr/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/yzw0de7xn/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/yzw0de7xn/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/b8wmvauvv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b8wmvauvv/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/efr6ex7m3/Photo02191753951.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/efr6ex7m3/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/hmlpyk7hn/Photo02192003.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hmlpyk7hn/)
Looks like some facebook stocking going on.  :m LMAO

as funny as that is! no ...you text me those pics way back. that is the only pics i got from you and guessing they were taken with a cell. lol but hey i'm good with FB stocker  rofl rofl
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 04, 2018, 05:36:58 AM
Yesterday we spent a few hours at Jerry's house getting the front end ready to put on.  Jerry, Glenn, and Dan are the brains as well as the skill in this project.

(https://s18.postimg.org/elcg9mutx/20180303_120509.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/elcg9mutx/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/gd5f4j6h1/20180303_120518.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/gd5f4j6h1/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/n3lwdylx1/20180303_120526.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/n3lwdylx1/)

(https://s18.postimg.org/ujl5zp4gl/20180303_124015.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ujl5zp4gl/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 04, 2018, 06:48:54 AM
so you hired a team of protectionists to get the job done  rofl rofl this will be an exceptional ride when it's done !
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 04, 2018, 06:49:39 AM
and why am i not surprised there is a lathe in his winter homes garage!!  ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: budlight69 on March 04, 2018, 07:02:52 AM
Very cool.  Keep the progress pics comIng please. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on March 04, 2018, 07:13:35 AM
and why am i not surprised there is a lathe in his winter homes garage!!  ;D

A mill too.  It's the one with a cover over it.  Found them in some guys driveway and made a good deal.  Had some rust we had to deal with and the lathe is all  miteric but we can deal with that.  Use them quite a bit. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 04, 2018, 07:35:12 AM
i bet......funny thing is i have always thought every good garage should at bare min have a welder. i guess you two feel that every vacation garage should have a bare min machine shop in it  rofl rofl this is why i like you two  ;D ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 04, 2018, 07:36:01 AM
78 crew is very lucky to have access to sooooo many years combined experience and a machine shop  ;) ;) ;D ;D rofl
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 04, 2018, 09:16:00 AM
WHat a crew. Larry,Moe and Curly. I'll let you guess which one is Curly.  :m ;D ;D  Great bunch of guys for sure. EVERY shop needs those pieces of equipment also!!!!!!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 04, 2018, 12:52:01 PM
 rofl rofl LMAO LMAO ;D terrible but funny  rofl rofl i do think i know who curly is  ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 06:48:43 AM
Looks like it is coming along. it will be a top notch build with that pit crew.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 05, 2018, 05:28:17 PM
We made a lot of progress today.  Having a couple metal-masters really helps out.
 
(https://s14.postimg.org/qzn55sap9/20180305_101937.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qzn55sap9/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/5pziuy9u5/20180305_113653.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5pziuy9u5/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/9z48x45dp/20180305_163813.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/9z48x45dp/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/ng17fz09p/20180305_165727.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ng17fz09p/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/ttqaj900t/20180305_165738.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ttqaj900t/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/xdc890sfx/20180305_165805.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xdc890sfx/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 06:36:29 PM
i made a suggestions tonight after everyone left.  fast held it up and snapped a pic for me. not up to me but i like this location on that style of shock hoop better for point of connect.
(https://s9.postimage.org/jfcqaup3v/output.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/jfcqaup3v/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 05, 2018, 06:50:56 PM
i made a suggestions tonight after everyone left.  fast held it up and snapped a pic for me. not up to me but i like this location on that style of shock hoop better for point of connect.
(https://s9.postimg.org/jfcqaup3v/output.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jfcqaup3v/)

Are you talking about where the shock hoop is sitting on the top horizontal bar (in line with the vertical bar) or where the shock is in relation to the hoop?  I am trying to understand what the suggestion is.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 08:28:22 PM
where the shock hoop intersects or mounts on top of the new upright tube. i say this as the shock pushes up on the hoop it will pull on the upper frame so attached at this point you have a tube welded to the lower frame supporting the end of the shock hoop.
(https://s9.postimage.org/3u004mfe3/image.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/3u004mfe3/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 08:30:28 PM
the rail is coming along and looking good btw. if you make side panels and a hood no one will recognize the rail!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 05, 2018, 08:53:38 PM
I understand now.  Thanks.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 05, 2018, 08:58:42 PM
I have been real pleased with the way it is turning out.  I don't think it is going to scream beam conversion.  I am also excited to see how it feels.

I have been researching microstub kits this evening.  Anybody have any recommendations?  I see there are several kits out there with varying prices.       
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 09:23:43 PM
i bought this kit from dale at sand parts. i paid $1100 and now it's on sale for $774. not the best one out there.  doesn't come with the weld flange that the caliper mounts to so make sure to order that if your going to build your own. or make sure you buy 3x3's from the guy i posted built for micro stub hub kit with 3.60" pilot hole. these are a 24 spline stub axle and the brake calipers are a chinese knock off of wilwood, so far they have been up to the task with 12" wide rims on a 4.5" back space and 1450 #2 cut stu (sport tires of america made by stu) paddles. the wheel bearings are the only thing i have had to watch. i have had to re torque them 3 times. so far they have been holding after the last re tq. for the money they are right now, for a lighter weight rail ( mine has to be atleast 1600 lbs), i would buy them again.

http://www.sandparts.com/5-Lug-Micro-Stub-Brake-Kit_p_83605.html
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 09:29:13 PM
note.....with that kit check every bolt and screw on the hub rotor assembly as 50% were loose when i got them.

this TA he sells has what looks like the 3 bolt flange for the micro stub hub kit. if you bought those from sand parts i would buy the caliper weld on flange and send it to the TA builder so he can weld them on.

i think these pic's are of 3x5's but he makes them in 3x3 also.

(https://s9.postimage.org/ic1sq9w23/28056393_10208737791440818_3833478848304923368_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/ic1sq9w23/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/81zdr1dwb/28059245_10208737791000807_235462089274417269_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/81zdr1dwb/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/kgm5rdd4b/28278996_10208737790760801_7471989201106122416_n.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/kgm5rdd4b/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 05, 2018, 10:01:05 PM
Thanks.  That seems like for the price it might be a pretty good deal.  I will look into it.   
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 08, 2018, 07:56:34 PM
We finished the install today, minus the painting.  Tomorrow we are going to the dunes to see how it does.  I am super excited.  I think it turned out great.  I was fortunate to have great help. 

(https://s10.postimg.org/oulnyyaqt/20180308_104148.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/oulnyyaqt/)

(https://s10.postimg.org/pk4gbbj05/20180308_104231.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/pk4gbbj05/)

(https://s10.postimg.org/4n886nsp1/20180308_104238.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/4n886nsp1/)

(https://s10.postimg.org/d5hoaz4cl/20180308_104245.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/d5hoaz4cl/)

(https://s10.postimg.org/x03pwyedh/20180308_104252.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/x03pwyedh/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 08, 2018, 08:16:48 PM
A little shock tuning and you will be VERY happy!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 08, 2018, 08:27:04 PM
like fabr said....little shock tuning and you'll be very happy. it may be damn close now too and you will get soooo used to that power steering you won't be able to do with out it again lol  ;) ;)  that really turned out very nice! wasn't sure how those shock hoops were going to look but they look good!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 08, 2018, 08:33:56 PM
like i told fast and jerry....need to go run it through the rough for a very short spert then re charge the shock as it will prob loose 20 psi to the oil. they always do on a fresh shock or anytime you add oil. other than that the valving should be pretty close.  what eps did you use?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 08, 2018, 08:41:06 PM
shouldn't there be another brace tube here on each side?
(https://s9.postimg.org/94buyo6wb/20180308_104245.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/94buyo6wb/)


(https://s9.postimage.org/45ock8ijv/20180308_104148.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/45ock8ijv/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 08, 2018, 09:06:17 PM
I'd think so.

I think that's the best looking conversion I've seen yet.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 08, 2018, 09:12:10 PM
big improvement


(https://s9.postimage.org/ycwos6yxn/20180224_133752.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/7f2rqgtq3/20180224_134656_001.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/7f2rqgtq3/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/kvzq9cbrf/20180308_104238.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/kvzq9cbrf/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/o2u9sz3x7/20180308_104252.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/o2u9sz3x7/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 08, 2018, 10:54:17 PM
I ordered the EPS from Pacific Customs.  It's the same kit that a few of the guys here recently put in their buggies.  We talked about putting a diagonal brace in that spot.  In the end, we didn't think it would add much benefit.     
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 09:40:32 AM
i would put the tube back in. just my opinion infact i would weld it over the splice point on that upright to strengthen that seam.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on March 09, 2018, 12:46:08 PM
Put it to the test. Hammered it in the sand this morning and like D's said we had to add air too then shocks. Car did great. He even dropped it off into a deep witches eye, recovered it,.and drove it out to
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on March 09, 2018, 12:47:23 PM
More when I get home.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 09, 2018, 02:41:33 PM
I had a great time in the sand today.  The difference in the ride is night and day.  I am really pleased with how much better it drives.  Unfortunately, I was too busy driving to take any pictures but Jerry did take some video.  Maybe if I can figure it out, I will post a clip or two.  Like Fast said, I did get myself stuck at the bottom of a deep witch's eye.  I was able to self-extract and drive out.  Overall, it was lots of fun and I have the sand in my teeth to prove it.  :D  ;D :D   

I will have to decide if I want more bracing or leave it as is.  I hate to add more weight if it isn't needed.  Then again, I would hate to have my buggy fold up like a taco. bounce 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: budlight69 on March 09, 2018, 03:08:50 PM
The A-arm mod came out great.  One of the cleanest I have seen.  Larry, Moe and Curly should be applauded! 

On the two extra braces- Do it like DS said.  Not that much weight.  Look at your A pillar and project that line down.  It needs a brace.  Triangulation will take a shear load so much better than a square box.  just my 2 pennies

Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 03:51:26 PM
oh we always want video's!!!!!!    ;D i take it your happy?  rofl i knew you would be , imo a arms beats beam any day for comfort! two 1" od tubes can't add more than 3 or 4 lbs to the nose and the extra shear strength out weighs that! do as budlight suggested you won't regret it. so does it wheelie still?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 03:53:11 PM
you guys did a fine job on the conversion. now that the bar is set high.......we'll have a comparison to another member once he starts his  ;D ;) no pressure now  rofl


you'll have to upload the video's to youtube then post them.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 09, 2018, 04:08:16 PM
two 1" od tubes can't add more than 3 or 4 lbs to the nose and the extra shear strength out weighs that! do as budlight suggested you won't regret it. so does it wheelie still?

Okay...I will do it.  I will add the diagonal bars on the sides.  And as far as wheelies go, I am sad to say that it still won't wheelie.  I think you are going to have to work on the kit some more. :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 04:36:54 PM
 rofl well set the rebound faster and pogo stick the front off a roller and she'll wheelie! that being said ...wheelies are over rated and keeping your wheels on the ground is far far better! this is why i pre fer mid engine. once you get 3x3's on the rear or 3x5's ( dealers choice) you will be equally impressed yet again at the diff it makes! i bet my front end steers far far better than that old beam and the power steering really helps in the soft fluffy sand.


fast told me the zensis racing team only had 23 hrs into converting it so thast the best time yet! once you convert to 3x3's in the rear, it should gain apprx 4" gc ( ground clearance). i also heard you had perma grinn running across the sand.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 09, 2018, 04:50:00 PM
I did have a permanent grin.  I am going to either have to get a face shield or stop smiling because I am tired of eating sand. :m  It was a whole new experience today.  Are the 3X5 trailing arms 5 inches or 3 inches wider?  I don't really want to go 5 inches wider, if they are.  And I don't want to have to move the transmission back.  I am pretty sure I can leave my engine as is with 3x3's and 930 CVs.  I don't know about the 3x5's. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 09, 2018, 04:54:54 PM
rofl well set the rebound faster and pogo stick the front off a roller and she'll wheelie! that being said ...wheelies are over rated and keeping your wheels on the ground is far far better! this is why i pre fer mid engine. once you get 3x3's on the rear or 3x5's ( dealers choice) you will be equally impressed yet again at the diff it makes! i bet my front end steers far far better than that old beam and the power steering really helps in the soft fluffy sand.


fast told me the zensis racing team only had 23 hrs into converting it so thast the best time yet! once you convert to 3x3's in the rear, it should gain apprx 4" gc ( ground clearance). i also heard you had perma grinn running across the sand.  ;D ;D
Bingo.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 04:58:41 PM
3x3's are 3 longer and 3 wider, 3x5 are 3" longer 5" wider. 3x3's are a bolt on with no trans movement.  normally are i guess i should say. with side panels and/or hood no one will ever recognize that rail ! lol

on another note fast told me you are at 175 psi in the front shocks. that must be a very light rail as i am 250 psi in 2.5 air's but i am 115" wheel base and mid engine plus a tad over 1600 lbs wet.

just a note.....not sure if you had a co pilot on today's run but if not then i bet you wind up adding an additional 5cc's oil and 10 to 20 psi more. just keep that combo in the back of you head for future use. the valving must be very close and with the addition of the 5cc i said to add right of the bat sounds like you didn't use all the travel but 15 inch's or so.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 05:00:10 PM
these are pretty nice but lens choice sucks/

http://savephace.com/Tactical/Tactical-Masks
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 05:00:35 PM
rofl well set the rebound faster and pogo stick the front off a roller and she'll wheelie! that being said ...wheelies are over rated and keeping your wheels on the ground is far far better! this is why i pre fer mid engine. once you get 3x3's on the rear or 3x5's ( dealers choice) you will be equally impressed yet again at the diff it makes! i bet my front end steers far far better than that old beam and the power steering really helps in the soft fluffy sand.


fast told me the zensis racing team only had 23 hrs into converting it so thast the best time yet! once you convert to 3x3's in the rear, it should gain apprx 4" gc ( ground clearance). i also heard you had perma grinn running across the sand.  ;D ;D
Bingo.


some how i knew you would agree  rofl ;) ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 09, 2018, 06:01:36 PM
these are pretty nice but lens choice sucks/

http://savephace.com/Tactical/Tactical-Masks

Jerry let me try out his today.  It is now on my list of things to buy.  Unfortunately, the boss put her foot down and told me I have spent enough money for a while so these other things are going to have to wait.  It seems I am officially shut down.  aa: 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
for now...... are the key words  ;)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Stickflipper on March 09, 2018, 07:33:24 PM
you guys did a fine job on the conversion. now that the bar is set high.......we'll have a comparison to another member once he starts his  ;D ;) no pressure now  rofl


you'll have to upload the video's to youtube then post them.

can't start cutting the front off, have to work OT to cover all the new rail stuff  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 09, 2018, 07:42:50 PM
these are pretty nice but lens choice sucks/

http://savephace.com/Tactical/Tactical-Masks

Jerry let me try out his today.  It is now on my list of things to buy.  Unfortunately, the boss put her foot down and told me I have spent enough money for a while so these other things are going to have to wait.  It seems I am officially shut down.  aa:
Love the save phace masks but as said earlier,the lenses SUCK. I'd gladly pay a LOT more for quality lenses for them. On the other hand,I will likely be wearing the helmet a lot more .
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
you guys did a fine job on the conversion. now that the bar is set high.......we'll have a comparison to another member once he starts his  ;D ;) no pressure now  rofl


you'll have to upload the video's to youtube then post them.

can't start cutting the front off, have to work OT to cover all the new rail stuff  ;D ;D ;D ;D

excuses excuses lol  ;D well it will happen soon enough. ya know fast, jerry, dan and 78crew aren't far from you  in yuma
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 08:10:45 PM
these are pretty nice but lens choice sucks/

http://savephace.com/Tactical/Tactical-Masks

Jerry let me try out his today.  It is now on my list of things to buy.  Unfortunately, the boss put her foot down and told me I have spent enough money for a while so these other things are going to have to wait.  It seems I am officially shut down.  aa:
Love the save phace masks but as said earlier,the lenses SUCK. I'd gladly pay a LOT more for quality lenses for them. On the other hand,I will likely be wearing the helmet a lot more .

i agree and would too and have talked to them about just that......she didn't care.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 09, 2018, 08:22:30 PM
They will when a lot more of us finally give up on them. I'm almost there.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 08:38:17 PM
i hear ya.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 09, 2018, 09:01:01 PM
This is the first testimonial on their website. You would think they would be smart enough to have not posted it at all. Anyway ,here it is.

Testimonials SUM

NAFC Field Test Results Overall Rating: 7.5-wasn't higher because the price was published wrong. It's a lot lower now.
Scale: 1-10 (1 being poor and 10 being excellent)
Design: 7.5
Ease of Use: 8.8
Quality: 7.7
Versatility: 8.2
Appearance: 7.0
Effectiveness: 8.4
Rated against similar products: 7.0
Visibility: 9.0


 Pretty crappy ratings ,huh. At least I agree with it.   ii:
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 09:17:43 PM
i like the masks....comfortable and fit me well. protect well and peripheral vision is good imo but the lens need to be offered in a few more colors and polarized would be nice. they scratch waaay to easy as well. now my vision is diff than others from the lasik surgury so the majority may love them. i have never read those testimonial ratings as you, fast and another had them and liked them. i still like them but will have to figure out how to affix my goggles to them in a removable fashion for a better lens.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 09, 2018, 09:41:10 PM

(https://s14.postimg.org/y0sleqiel/20180309_213447.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/y0sleqiel/)

(https://s14.postimg.org/5nx3o9oyl/20180309_213459.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5nx3o9oyl/)

There it is.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 09, 2018, 10:43:47 PM
i like it.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 10, 2018, 06:41:03 AM
ditto!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Carlriddle on March 10, 2018, 06:49:30 AM
Very nice.  Told DS one of my fav beam swaps.  Get some paint on her and and keep on testing. 
Great job, by the whole pit crew.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 10, 2018, 07:22:58 AM
i like the masks....comfortable and fit me well. protect well and peripheral vision is good imo but the lens need to be offered in a few more colors and polarized would be nice. they scratch waaay to easy as well. now my vision is diff than others from the lasik surgury so the majority may love them. i have never read those testimonial ratings as you, fast and another had them and liked them. i still like them but will have to figure out how to affix my goggles to them in a removable fashion for a better lens.
Welllll,I didn't say I don't like the mask.If they made a decent lens it would be perfect. It's been what, 10 years and no improvement?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 10, 2018, 07:47:21 AM
i like the masks....comfortable and fit me well. protect well and peripheral vision is good imo but the lens need to be offered in a few more colors and polarized would be nice. they scratch waaay to easy as well. now my vision is diff than others from the lasik surgury so the majority may love them. i have never read those testimonial ratings as you, fast and another had them and liked them. i still like them but will have to figure out how to affix my goggles to them in a removable fashion for a better lens.
Welllll,I didn't say I don't like the mask.If they made a decent lens it would be perfect. It's been what, 10 years and no improvement?

i know you like them or you wouldn've wear it and your right no improvements in a decade. they can't say there have been no suggestions lol and i cannot be the only one! i asked the rep at oakley when i called if i sent a lens if they could make some for me lol he said no i even said i would be willing to have 50 made he still said they don't do that! always have to try as we never know!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 10, 2018, 07:48:58 AM
78crew.....your next investment should be a go pro  ;D i have been buying cheap used ones on ebay so i'm not upset when they get destroyed  :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 11, 2018, 05:35:14 PM
i asked fast what angle the shock wound up being laid over, said he would check and let me know. shouldve been 22 to 24*. but just so the info is in the build log.........78crews front end using a fox 2.0 air shock 10" stroke has 18" usable wheel travel with 5.5" ground clearence (GC) at full bump ( fully compressed shock).  so 23.5" GC at full droop ( fully extended shock).
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on March 12, 2018, 06:11:54 AM
ni8ght and day. that is one good looking buggy
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 12, 2018, 09:35:39 AM
yours was night and day diff too but i don't remember seeing your conversion log posted??  ;) ;) ;D ;D so i can't say it was a great build log  rofl
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 12, 2018, 06:23:08 PM
found these in an archive folder in my email.

(https://s9.postimage.org/tznmjgogr/thumbnail_IMAG0012.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/tznmjgogr/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/eqxp5phxn/thumbnail_IMAG0014.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/eqxp5phxn/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/4gva6gcmj/thumbnail_IMAG0018.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/4gva6gcmj/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/c9lxyg5qz/thumbnail_IMAG0019.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/c9lxyg5qz/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/inb11q5i3/thumbnail_IMAG0020.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/inb11q5i3/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/bwujsa2wr/thumbnail_IMAG0021.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/bwujsa2wr/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/cmdc4m8l7/thumbnail_IMAG0022.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/cmdc4m8l7/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/skm1urpyj/thumbnail_IMAG0025.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/skm1urpyj/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/giqo0njaz/thumbnail_IMAG0044.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/giqo0njaz/)

(https://s9.postimage.org/q3aanj0x7/thumbnail_IMAG0045.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/q3aanj0x7/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 13, 2018, 12:07:13 PM
Sorry, I haven't had much time to keep up with the thread.  The buggy is currently all apart right for paint.  It is going slow since I have been working around my real job.  When I get the buggy back together I will check clearances.  I know it is quite a bit taller in the front than it used to be.  I would guess the belly is probably 26 inches or so off the ground with the shocks fully extended.  I will confirm in a few days when it gets back together. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 13, 2018, 12:09:31 PM

(https://s14.postimg.org/amid7amkt/20180313_110745.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/amid7amkt/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 13, 2018, 12:55:11 PM
looks good. the front will balance out once the 3x3as are installed. i told them to set it 4" higher for that reason. i just figured youave been out playing with the crew all this time. lol
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 13, 2018, 12:55:57 PM
are you going to make side panels or a hood or roof to?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 13, 2018, 01:11:12 PM
I would like to get side panels at least but it is down the list a little ways. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 13, 2018, 02:23:22 PM
i hear ya ........it will change the look of the rail for sure. not as much as the a arms did.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 13, 2018, 02:25:45 PM
i`m sure you`ll enjoy it as is rest of the season then do the rest before next season.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 15, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
Yesterday, Fast called and invited me to go riding in the Dunes Friday so I got up early this morning and finished getting the buggy together.  To answer a couple questions, the shocks are angled in around 22" at full extension.  As far as ground clearance goes, at full extension, I have over 26" clearance (that is with the a-arms ratcheted together).  If I had to do it again, I probably would set it down a couple inches lower.  It was my call on the ride height and I chose to put it where it is.  I may end up redoing the lower shock mounts to lower it some...we'll see.     
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 15, 2018, 12:31:51 PM
(https://s14.postimage.org/ow6srq0dp/20180315_105351.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/ow6srq0dp/)

(https://s14.postimage.org/c4sml73gd/20180315_105539.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/c4sml73gd/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 15, 2018, 12:34:05 PM
thanks 78 crew. does that gauge read 67*?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 15, 2018, 01:18:10 PM
Yes.  It reads 67.6.  That is how many degrees it is from horizontal.  Subtract that from 90 degrees and it leaves you with 22.4 degrees.  That is how many degrees it is from vertical. 


Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 15, 2018, 01:25:25 PM
i get that, i forgot to ask if the frame was level and i cannot expand the pic on my phone so it was hard to read.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 16, 2018, 04:43:46 PM
We had a great ride in the dunes today.  The sand was smooth, no one broke down, or had to be dug out.   I am very pleased with how well the buggy turns and handles the bumps/dips. 

(https://s13.postimage.org/n3b09z0w3/20180316_100158.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/n3b09z0w3/)

(https://s13.postimage.org/jwggqc8qb/20180316_100244.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/jwggqc8qb/)

(https://s13.postimage.org/rp74iaz9v/20180316_100308.jpg) (https://postimage.org/image/rp74iaz9v/)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on March 16, 2018, 07:40:25 PM
About five hours of hart pounding speed and tight corners With SandSavior lending.  Don was following Jerry then 78Crew then me. Some of the big bowl's my GPS said we were flying at 45 to 50 miles per hour.  The sand was so soft you could not coast downhill, you had to power your car down the steep hills. We all need to give 78Crew the big ada-boy for his driving performance in the dunes today, for being a newbie to the sand and buggy world.  He was kind of the under dog with just a 2332 VW but he climbed every hill we went up and stayed right on Don's tail.  78's car is light and the front end works so good, I watched him hit the bottom of some of the taller dun's at speed and the front of his car sucked up the transition like it was nothing.  He has reason to be proud of how far he has come.  So let me be the first to say Your the man Justin.   Hair on fire bounce
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 16, 2018, 08:19:53 PM
atta boy,justin!!!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: 78crew on March 16, 2018, 10:04:12 PM
You are very Kind, Fast!  I am learning from the best and having a blast. ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: sandvw on March 16, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
Fast, the motoris a 2276 not a 2332!
Still does good though.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on March 16, 2018, 11:18:38 PM
My bad on the 2276 Still a dang good running motor.   I'm out there running 490 hp to ground and hammering the dog poo out of my 3.0 all the time thinking, that little four banger vw up there staying up with all of us.  kick
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on March 16, 2018, 11:21:31 PM
I fully expect to see a new set of wrist restraints next week Crew.  Your going faster all the time now and need them. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: budlight69 on March 17, 2018, 06:43:37 AM
It looks like an awesome day on the sand, out running with the big dogs.  Glad the car is doing so good.  Keeping up with SandSavior keeps you on your toes, better have your “A” game going.  The wrist restraints are not very expensive, but worth every penny. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on March 17, 2018, 09:55:09 AM
I fully expect to see a new set of wrist restraints next week Crew.  Your going faster all the time now and need them.
YUP,mandatory item!!!!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on March 17, 2018, 12:51:40 PM
sounds like your having a blast! nice pics and i know the front end handles well  ;D ;D ;) lol  now for the important question......where are the video's!!!!!!  ;D   rail looks great 78crew and i know it's a blast running with those guys.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on April 30, 2018, 12:27:13 PM
not sure why but all the pics dont come up for me in this thread?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fastcorvairs on April 30, 2018, 12:52:30 PM
OK Yummi who stole all the pictures from this thread?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on April 30, 2018, 06:56:10 PM
so i'm not the only one that cannot view them.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on April 30, 2018, 07:30:59 PM
I don't see them either. Were they there after to site relocation or before?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on April 30, 2018, 09:24:18 PM
all posted after.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 01, 2018, 05:55:34 AM
pm yummi. I have no clue.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 01, 2018, 06:04:43 AM
i did pm him yesterday evening.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Yummi on May 03, 2018, 08:18:47 AM
So yes, this sucks. 

The image host - Post image - went through a something.  No idea what it was.  The upshot is they had to change there www address.  all the pictures are there.  but, to refrence them it now requires an different address.  the web site address https://postimg.cc works as does the address https://postimage.org  so, the old ones were postimg.org  see the subtle difference?  A picture is below. 

So, if there are missing photos via post image.  Go into the post and change the extension or from "img" to "image."  You can see in this picture how the top two have been chnaged, the bottom one not. 



(https://s14.postimg.cc/88am0m9b5/post_img.jpg)


Like I say this sucks.  Third party, free vendor.  Not much to do other than cuss.  They may fix it (that is my hope)  But this is about the same level as the photobucket fiasco. 

On the bright side, nothing I did, so "yea me."   LMAO
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Yummi on May 03, 2018, 08:29:09 AM
i did pm him yesterday evening.

Not that I don't love you, but sometimes it is so much easier to do from a desktop.  I was on the road. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 03, 2018, 08:56:49 AM
^^^^^^!!!!!!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 03, 2018, 09:50:25 AM
i can change the ones i posted but thats it.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Yummi on May 03, 2018, 10:50:51 AM
i can change the ones i posted but thats it.

Yes, that is the bitch of it.  Everybody can check their own posts as we allow editing.  Fabr and I can change them.  The kicker is the only way to find them is check post by post.   So if folks see a post with that issue, let me know, or they can change it.   

In some fashion postimage lost control of their original domain name.  That may get restored, but who knows? 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 03, 2018, 11:16:01 AM
let me know as well since I now know what to fix.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 03, 2018, 02:16:45 PM
i got a bunch on the first 2 pages. had to get back to work so ran out of time. the good news is i tripped over the cord on my lap top yesterday and shattered the screen so now i get to replace that one lol going to have to ask enemy real nice if he can recover the info on the hard drive.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on September 30, 2019, 02:09:12 PM
here is a good picture of one of my a arm front end kits in action
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on September 30, 2019, 03:37:49 PM
Love it, look at Dune Buggy Dougie go.    LMAO
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 12, 2021, 09:30:17 PM
I know this is an old topic and not much discussion as of late but, I am looking for feedback on this kit. Not much out there for it.
Anyone that has made the swap, how has it been long term? How does the ride and handling compare to a beam? How was the swap itself?

I have what I feel is a pretty good beam set up but am really considering doing this swap but would definitely like more feedback on it before spending the coin and cutting mine apart!

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 13, 2021, 05:52:34 AM
I know several that have done the DS conversion. All are very happy .You will be as well. Well worth the time and money.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 13, 2021, 06:03:10 AM
I know several that have done the DS conversion. All are very happy .You will be as well. Well worth the time and money.

Appreciate the feedback, thanks
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 13, 2021, 06:32:16 AM
I'm sure DS(Brian) will be here before long to answer any questions you may have. He has been very helpful to his buyers.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 13, 2021, 06:56:29 AM
like fabr said, all have been happy. installation will differ from frame desing to frame design and skill level. some have it done in two easy days and some take a week or 2. again, that depends on frame design, skill level and available tools.  there 101 a arm front end out that have been installed, that number says something about them. they are for sale on sandparts.com .......there are a few different conversion threads on here with progress pics.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on May 13, 2021, 08:13:01 AM
i have had mine for around 8 year very well built and reliable system.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 13, 2021, 07:30:22 PM
i have had mine for around 8 year very well built and reliable system.

How is the ride and handling compared to a well set up beam?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 13, 2021, 07:39:46 PM
like fabr said, all have been happy. installation will differ from frame desing to frame design and skill level. some have it done in two easy days and some take a week or 2. again, that depends on frame design, skill level and available tools.  there 101 a arm front end out that have been installed, that number says something about them. they are for sale on sandparts.com .......there are a few different conversion threads on here with progress pics.

Appreciate  the feedback
It does seem like it could be pretty straightforward doing the swap with how it comes as an assembly. Been looking for as much info as I can on it to try to picture how I may want the finish product to look. Seems like there are many options.

Do you know if these units are prebuilt and ready to ship or are they built to order?

Thanks
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 14, 2021, 08:46:10 AM
both depending on demand.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 14, 2021, 01:39:12 PM
yes the kits are weld on. there is some fab work but minor compared to 99% of others.

https://dtsfab.com/index.php?topic=4054.0
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 14, 2021, 06:07:04 PM
yes the kits are weld on. there is some fab work but minor compared to 99% of others.

https://dtsfab.com/index.php?topic=4054.0

Nice.  Thanks for the link and the pics. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 14, 2021, 06:10:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/8FYXyL1x/20210513-225215.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8FYXyL1x)

This is what I am considering updating the kit to. Older pic though. Rear has been updated to coil overs along with some other upgrades. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 14, 2021, 06:16:55 PM

(https://i.postimg.cc/k2BpWjCW/20190816-202950.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2BpWjCW)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 14, 2021, 06:28:55 PM
At this point I'm going to chime in on this.  The DS front end kits are very well designed and work well.  I'm positive there are no unhappy customers that have converted their sand cars from beams or crappy geometry a-arm fronts.  Positive!.   However there is a lot of good to be said for well set up beam fronts when it comes to rugged durability for hitting rocks and snagging trees and stuff. From the pic I may be wrong but it appears your buggy may fall into the rocks and tree obstacle use? If its primary use is sand and open country then there is no way I'd keep the beam.   Just food for thought. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 14, 2021, 09:26:50 PM
At this point I'm going to chime in on this.  The DS front end kits are very well designed and work well.  I'm positive there are no unhappy customers that have converted their sand cars from beams or crappy geometry a-arm fronts.  Positive!.   However there is a lot of good to be said for well set up beam fronts when it comes to rugged durability for hitting rocks and snagging trees and stuff. From the pic I may be wrong but it appears your buggy may fall into the rocks and tree obstacle use? If its primary use is sand and open country then there is no way I'd keep the beam.   Just food for thought.

Thanks for the reply, good info.
I'm in Michigan, we make a few trips to the dunes each summer and primarily just trail ride through the woods and back roads. My beam is very heavy built so I would assume the stronger of the options, but I think for the riding we do this DS set up should be ok. How does it compare in whooped out sections and handling minor jumps at the dunes?

I see in most applications I've seen pictures of, air shocks are the more used shocks, are these preferred over coil overs with this kit for a certain reason or just a personal preference?

Thanks
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 14, 2021, 09:42:38 PM
At this point I'm going to chime in on this.  The DS front end kits are very well designed and work well.  I'm positive there are no unhappy customers that have converted their sand cars from beams or crappy geometry a-arm fronts.  Positive!.   However there is a lot of good to be said for well set up beam fronts when it comes to rugged durability for hitting rocks and snagging trees and stuff. From the pic I may be wrong but it appears your buggy may fall into the rocks and tree obstacle use? If its primary use is sand and open country then there is no way I'd keep the beam.   Just food for thought.

Thanks for the reply, good info.
I'm in Michigan, we make a few trips to the dunes each summer and primarily just trail ride through the woods and back roads. My beam is very heavy built so I would assume the stronger of the options, but I think for the riding we do this DS set up should be ok. How does it compare in whooped out sections and handling minor jumps at the dunes?

I see in most applications I've seen pictures of, air shocks are the more used shocks, are these preferred over coil overs with this kit for a certain reason or just a personal preference?

Thanks
The set up will easily handle anything you wish to do with it in the dunes. No problem.   The air shocks is what the designer has always used from the beginning and I think most buyers have followed suit. They do work well.  I believe that if you were to go coil carriers with bypasses you would have a set up as good as any $$$$ setups out there including the $$$$$$ cars. There is no comparision between an air shock vs simple dual rate coil over vs coil carrier/bypass combo. It's a good/good/best comparision.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on May 14, 2021, 09:47:13 PM
BTW,we have 2 dtsfab group meet ups a year at Little Sahara Oklahoma. Our next one is Oct 18-22 ride days. You are certainly invited. We would love to have you. We have members all over the US that come. Literally, east coast to west and North border area to florida. It's worth the drive.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 06:13:23 AM
fabr touched on some very good points and thanks for the compliment fabr!

the air shocks are the easiest for new to the game people to understand, adjust and install. they are also the cheapest and lightest weight. this has always been the appeal for most but you can use what ever shock you want. when i built them in the beginning i never included from lower shock mounts as it's best to set you own shock mounts up for the finished frame. i had many many people say i really needed to include lower shock mounts, so i started. as most of the experienced dts members know, universal seldom works perfectly. i just happen to know the new builder doesn't offer lower shock mounts either.  if you are running trails and hook a tree at speed, an a arm will likely bend or deform at the least. as fabr mentioned, an a arm will not bounce off like a beam front end..... depending on speed and where they hit that is. i'd like to see a side pic w/o the skin and a measurement between the upper and lower main frame tubes.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 06:15:28 AM
def welcome to ride little sahara sand dunes with the dts group. how wide is the elbow to elbow room in the seating area of that rail? looks pretty good btw.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 06:31:22 AM
the use of air shocks is probably 50/50. the shock choice is up to the end user as only they know how they ride. the best set up is always twins with an external bypass but that takes up a fair amount of space and adds weight. imo and only imo, the next best to that would be a set of 12" stroke podium shocks off the front end of a '17 or newer can am maverick turbo x3. those podium shocks come with internal bypass's so sort of the best of both worlds but not quite. def better than a fox air but again, depends on the end users goals/needs and ability to tune them. air shocks are by far the easiest to tune but have there limitations. they have worked well for myself and many others over the years as well. in the last pic the customer used a hoop to mount the lower shocks. i don't recommend that as it doesn't spread the load out far enough as he found out. the shocks load tube differently between a top mount and a lower mount location. strange but tried and true over the years. the farther inboard the absolute need to spread the load.

(https://i.postimg.cc/T582bgJ2/012.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T582bgJ2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqMNwz5G/015.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqMNwz5G)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BtDn07Jj/020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtDn07Jj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1fQ550zJ/4198-FCA4-4-AB6-48-D2-8-D3-B-54-A812-E88-BB3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fQ550zJ)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 06:39:33 AM
this pic of doug heims rail that is running my front end, shows a sort of boxed lower shock mount. he took a run of 1"x2" rectangle tube and split it diagonally then ran a piece 1" od & 1/2" id tube through it for lower shock mounts. this really strengthens the arms not only for a lower mounted shock but impact as well as protects the shock head.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPZ9hWrX/71800281-10157396417591206-1316073349243207680-n.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPZ9hWrX)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 08:54:35 AM
At this point I'm going to chime in on this.  The DS front end kits are very well designed and work well.  I'm positive there are no unhappy customers that have converted their sand cars from beams or crappy geometry a-arm fronts.  Positive!.   However there is a lot of good to be said for well set up beam fronts when it comes to rugged durability for hitting rocks and snagging trees and stuff. From the pic I may be wrong but it appears your buggy may fall into the rocks and tree obstacle use? If its primary use is sand and open country then there is no way I'd keep the beam.   Just food for thought.

Thanks for the reply, good info.
I'm in Michigan, we make a few trips to the dunes each summer and primarily just trail ride through the woods and back roads. My beam is very heavy built so I would assume the stronger of the options, but I think for the riding we do this DS set up should be ok. How does it compare in whooped out sections and handling minor jumps at the dunes?

I see in most applications I've seen pictures of, air shocks are the more used shocks, are these preferred over coil overs with this kit for a certain reason or just a personal preference?

Thanks
The set up will easily handle anything you wish to do with it in the dunes. No problem.   The air shocks is what the designer has always used from the beginning and I think most buyers have followed suit. They do work well.  I believe that if you were to go coil carriers with bypasses you would have a set up as good as any $$$$ setups out there including the $$$$$$ cars. There is no comparision between an air shock vs simple dual rate coil over vs coil carrier/bypass combo. It's a good/good/best comparision.

Great info, thanks.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 09:01:37 AM
BTW,we have 2 dtsfab group meet ups a year at Little Sahara Oklahoma. Our next one is Oct 18-22 ride days. You are certainly invited. We would love to have you. We have members all over the US that come. Literally, east coast to west and North border area to florida. It's worth the drive.

Nice. Definitely appreciate that. We make a couple trips a year to Silver Lake Sand Dunes here in Michigan, my kids have asked about other dunes and Little Sahara was the first they mentioned. You'll have to let me know when next years rides are planned and we will see if we can make that happen. I dont think i could make this year but would like to see if we could next year. Appreciate the invite.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 09:21:43 AM
fabr touched on some very good points and thanks for the compliment fabr!

the air shocks are the easiest for new to the game people to understand, adjust and install. they are also the cheapest and lightest weight. this has always been the appeal for most but you can use what ever shock you want. when i built them in the beginning i never included from lower shock mounts as it's best to set you own shock mounts up for the finished frame. i had many many people say i really needed to include lower shock mounts, so i started. as most of the experienced dts members know, universal seldom works perfectly. i just happen to know the new builder doesn't offer lower shock mounts either.  if you are running trails and hook a tree at speed, an a arm will likely bend or deform at the least. as fabr mentioned, an a arm will not bounce off like a beam front end..... depending on speed and where they hit that is. i'd like to see a side pic w/o the skin and a measurement between the upper and lower main frame tubes.

Pics of side removed and the measurement between the tubing.
Dont mind the dust, dirt and rats nest for wiring....she's been been gunna get tore down for paint and re-done for the last 3 winter's, but I keep finding more and more to do to her, and it looks like one more project before paint headed her way  :)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BtzXJr0X/20210515-104134-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtzXJr0X)

(https://i.postimg.cc/18Gtc4Nq/20210515-110852-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18Gtc4Nq)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 09:33:23 AM
def welcome to ride little sahara sand dunes with the dts group. how wide is the elbow to elbow room in the seating area of that rail? looks pretty good btw.

Room inside is not to bad, I have added suspension seats and they seem to fit good with a little room between. It is a pretty comfy cockpit and protected from things pretty well. I believe this is an older Berrien off-road chassis but not 100% sure. I lucked out when I found this 5-6 years ago and its been fun upgrading things. We used to have to climb through the roof but I have fabbed up doors that at first glance you cant see but they are pretty functional and make it a lot easier to get in and out. I've done 2 different engine swaps to it and now looking to do the a-arm conversion, then it should be time to paint and finish how I would like it. All part of the fun is the build for sure.

(https://i.postimg.cc/rdHvDNFC/20210515-104225-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdHvDNFC)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 09:58:04 AM
the use of air shocks is probably 50/50. the shock choice is up to the end user as only they know how they ride. the best set up is always twins with an external bypass but that takes up a fair amount of space and adds weight. imo and only imo, the next best to that would be a set of 12" stroke podium shocks off the front end of a '17 or newer can am maverick turbo x3. those podium shocks come with internal bypass's so sort of the best of both worlds but not quite. def better than a fox air but again, depends on the end users goals/needs and ability to tune them. air shocks are by far the easiest to tune but have there limitations. they have worked well for myself and many others over the years as well. in the last pic the customer used a hoop to mount the lower shocks. i don't recommend that as it doesn't spread the load out far enough as he found out. the shocks load tube differently between a top mount and a lower mount location. strange but tried and true over the years. the farther inboard the absolute need to spread the load.
Quote

Appreciate all the pics, helps see all the different options and ideas.
We currently have converted my daughters, sons and my rail over to coil overs, although still playing with valving would probably be the shock i will use for this. We put a set of Elka stage 5 on my duaghters off a Wildcat I was able to find on ebay, seems used SxS shocks can be a good start point.

I like the boxed idea for the lower shock mount you showed, that look's pretty solid and I like the idea of protecting the shock to.

What does this kit weigh?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:28:19 AM
i do not remember the exact weight anymore but it's seems to me they are just under 90lbs boxed.  def lighter then a stock beam front end. tape measure is in the wrong place but looks like you have a high side frame. those are the easiest to swap out. these front ends were originally designed for the barrien frames and worked well on the acme and prowler lines too.  here are a few more pics of another.


(https://i.postimg.cc/R6msWwSm/20180224-134656-001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6msWwSm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BPQmgsPw/20180308-104238.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/svxnGjrM/20180309-213447.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svxnGjrM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJPgWBSD/20180309-213459.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJPgWBSD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/21B2T03m/20180313-110745.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21B2T03m)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sjy1qL17/20180316-100244.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sjy1qL17)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WtXW4DQR/20180316-100308.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WtXW4DQR)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:32:26 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/JDc1X3j5/DSCN2768.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JDc1X3j5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NLDsf4sg/DSCN2771.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NLDsf4sg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/64WBf70J/DSCN2932-jpg-thumb.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/64WBf70J)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hfGSJdvV/IMG-0972.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfGSJdvV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tYm9F4nw/IMG-1032.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYm9F4nw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PCghFV4M/IMG-1070.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCghFV4M)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hQtq7kDK/IMG-1230.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQtq7kDK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QBcsLgYZ/IMG-20180426-160226.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QBcsLgYZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/0zMPn1pQ/IMG-0354.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zMPn1pQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5jb9VGM7/IMG-1035.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dDsFXy8g/sandrail-022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDsFXy8g)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1nMkPvp2/sandrail-023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nMkPvp2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/47XDrDhp/sandrail-025.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47XDrDhp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sv8RvHtR/sandrail-026.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sv8RvHtR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZvR1q6HR/sandrail-027.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZvR1q6HR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R6PD2Nmz/thumbnail-IMAG0012.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6PD2Nmz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDBjfL78/thumbnail-IMAG0014.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDBjfL78)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pp3g2hFW/thumbnail-IMAG0018.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pp3g2hFW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Tp54HdHZ/thumbnail-IMAG0019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tp54HdHZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qg5FLhQs/thumbnail-IMAG0020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qg5FLhQs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9DGNCx2b/thumbnail-IMAG0022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DGNCx2b)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2bjtHnPw/thumbnail-IMAG0044.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bjtHnPw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RWrbkkkq/thumbnail-IMAG0045.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RWrbkkkq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcHmTJFc/thumbnail-IMAG0021.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nCMJVfSk/thumbnail-IMG-0250.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nCMJVfSk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/06GgXkr8/thumbnail-IMG-0302.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/06GgXkr8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyvMcLd7/thumbnail-IMG-0306.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyvMcLd7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fkR45hsN/thumbnail-IMG-0310.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fkR45hsN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3dks5CWf/thumbnail-IMG-0316.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3dks5CWf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9z86nNXq/thumbnail-IMG-0318.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9z86nNXq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HJgRyqzF/thumbnail-IMG-0320.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJgRyqzF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yJy5XLrx/thumbnail-IMG-0321.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJy5XLrx)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:35:08 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/w1d0fhNm/DSCN0034.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1d0fhNm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/18cMLf0Y/DSCN0035.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18cMLf0Y)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CZhJYSmM/DSCN0036.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZhJYSmM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Thz91rC4/DSCN0037.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Thz91rC4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1g302M3f/DSCN0038.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1g302M3f)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bDMRQb8d/DSCN0950.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDMRQb8d)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZsLYmzf/DSCN0951.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZsLYmzf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Vr5Rrgx3/DSCN0952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Vr5Rrgx3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9ryB7rkF/DSCN0954.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9ryB7rkF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CdB7wvH8/DSCN0955.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CdB7wvH8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xNz3gCT5/DSCN0956.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNz3gCT5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/w1HQc9K5/front-clip.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w1HQc9K5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hzJLPjxn/IMG-0146.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzJLPjxn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yfjTpk9/IMG-0161-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yfjTpk9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWcFwXZG/IMG-0165-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWcFwXZG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/bSk1kB3F/IMG-0171.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bSk1kB3F)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Q9RpB3kT/IMG-0173.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Q9RpB3kT)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 10:40:13 AM
i do not remember the exact weight anymore but it's seems to me they are just under 90lbs boxed.  def lighter then a stock beam front end. tape measure is in the wrong place but looks like you have a high side frame. those are the easiest to swap out. these front ends were originally designed for the barrien frames and worked well on the acme and prowler lines too.  here are a few more pics of another.

Will definitely be lighter than my current set then!

That's the same chassis as my daughters, nice. Better not let see that one converted!!  ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:43:19 AM
as you can see in 2 of the pics, the diff from the upper and lower frame measurement , at seating area in relation to front end. that is an old low side barrien frame. those are just easier to split the upper supports, raise the frame rails a few inches then add the front end.  the low side frames are roughly 8" at that mark and kind of looked like yours is 11" there. hope this helps.


(https://i.postimg.cc/zVLGthN8/DSCN3174.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zVLGthN8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rd9V0C1C/DSCN3175.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rd9V0C1C)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4KG4xF9x/DSCN3176.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KG4xF9x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ygYVFgnq/DSCN3177.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygYVFgnq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1nCyMmY8/DSCN3178.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nCyMmY8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vx4bNJp3/DSCN3179.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vx4bNJp3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/dhrtvKDf/DSCN3180.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dhrtvKDf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/14XmXFfw/DSCN3181.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14XmXFfw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/23tzZ5ZJ/DSCN3182.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23tzZ5ZJ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/D8b7dKQz/DSCN3183.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8b7dKQz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LJK2x0v3/DSCN3184.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJK2x0v3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sn6q37vF/DSCN3185.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sn6q37vF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rdqck0Bd/DSCN3186.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rdqck0Bd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyQxY2xt/DSCN3187.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyQxY2xt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/R6FB3rV4/DSCN3188.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R6FB3rV4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N9zwmN5T/DSCN3189.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9zwmN5T)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sGGCcphL/DSCN3190.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sGGCcphL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/V528NVyP/DSCN3191.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V528NVyP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vc9dxtMg/DSCN3192.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vc9dxtMg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMrCYGDn/DSCN3193.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMrCYGDn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/cvByX1vd/DSCN3194.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvByX1vd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pymvRt6B/DSCN3195.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pymvRt6B)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wtxKPKNL/DSCN3196.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtxKPKNL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gwM9bMy5/DSCN3197.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwM9bMy5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5Yjh4wnt/DSCN3198.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Yjh4wnt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WFKQhhHw/DSCN3199.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WFKQhhHw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8sJ2xm7K/DSCN3200.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8sJ2xm7K)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6TkkK4R9/DSCN3201.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6TkkK4R9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/YhQJC2fQ/DSCN3202.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YhQJC2fQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NKYZ9hpS/DSCN3203.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKYZ9hpS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9DpKyxkM/DSCN3204.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9DpKyxkM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kVgZsQry/DSCN3205.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVgZsQry)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TyNs4Kfv/DSCN3206.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TyNs4Kfv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/627PJBp2/DSCN3207.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/627PJBp2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/JD92RSsT/DSCN3208.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JD92RSsT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8fMncwWT/DSCN3209.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8fMncwWT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vDVK08KC/DSCN3210.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDVK08KC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/vcwNkFFT/DSCN3211.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vcwNkFFT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SJLvpTkr/DSCN3212.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SJLvpTkr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TKRH2VPX/DSCN3213.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKRH2VPX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/87tX77Ff/DSCN3214.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87tX77Ff)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 10:53:14 AM
So many different and great looking ideas on how to tie in the cradle.

Looks like jumping seems to be no issue at all.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:54:52 AM
So many different and great looking ideas on how to tie in the cradle.

Looks like jumping seems to be no issue at all.

only if you land right  ;D  :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:56:58 AM
more old pics ..... completely out of order of course.


(https://i.postimg.cc/tZ4j1sNs/brian-and-dean.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tZ4j1sNs)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XpC0ySdk/dd1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XpC0ySdk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G8g1vbXq/dd3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8g1vbXq)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Cdd0SfKt/dd4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cdd0SfKt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/RJ3xR289/dd5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJ3xR289)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hhwBjPzG/dd6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hhwBjPzG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ns08tHfp/dd7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ns08tHfp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/S2vwJDKP/dd8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2vwJDKP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0WG1t7z/dd9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0WG1t7z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/k2PPQ1y3/do1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2PPQ1y3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/njCWbB1G/do10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/njCWbB1G)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ph462rGb/do11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ph462rGb)

(https://i.postimg.cc/MfBrXwNc/do12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfBrXwNc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hj8N60np/do13.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hj8N60np)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PPGR9Lv1/do14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PPGR9Lv1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6ydmX9Cg/do15.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6ydmX9Cg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/K1xscdNz/do16.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1xscdNz)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qNwDNjbG/do17.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qNwDNjbG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v1mqffCw/do18.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v1mqffCw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5HkP3jMY/do19.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HkP3jMY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NK8qp6Ny/do2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NK8qp6Ny)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hcc6PHpS/do20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hcc6PHpS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sQkwk8x3/do21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQkwk8x3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tnF2p5nW/do22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tnF2p5nW)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8F18373Z/do3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8F18373Z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XBBtFdGY/do4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBBtFdGY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qzn9vcHm/do5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzn9vcHm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXBNzJSK/do6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXBNzJSK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Snf3WysC/do7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Snf3WysC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/3yr61P46/do8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yr61P46)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WD9yHX04/do9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WD9yHX04)

Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 10:58:50 AM
the 4 seater was a small v8 rail. customer nose dived it and folded the beam around into the side of the frame. twisted the fame a bit too. thats why he stripped it down so far to rebuild and convert.

(https://i.postimg.cc/T582bgJ2/012.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T582bgJ2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqMNwz5G/015.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqMNwz5G)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BtDn07Jj/020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtDn07Jj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/nXXTLpmn/013.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nXXTLpmn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gx1sXQy8/014.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gx1sXQy8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jWNXzcv9/016.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWNXzcv9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BLBBzvrB/017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLBBzvrB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9RhB19nf/019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9RhB19nf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqpwcvjL/021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqpwcvjL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/pyPZFDjG/DSCN2849.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyPZFDjG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rzg9CKC8/DSCN2850.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzg9CKC8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rKmNhMQ5/DSCN2851.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKmNhMQ5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/tYMtwwMw/DSCN3086.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tYMtwwMw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/21LFDTp6/DSCN3088.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21LFDTp6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gw9ykRdK/DSCN3092.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gw9ykRdK)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 11:03:22 AM
i built this v6 rail from scratch and used my a arm front end kit.


(https://i.postimg.cc/z3Sqd1VD/2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/z3Sqd1VD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Lnx2pBtr/3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lnx2pBtr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWgm9bDH/DSCN2730.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWgm9bDH)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t1xjWKKj/DSCN2731.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1xjWKKj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Ppnk46H8/DSCN2732.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Ppnk46H8)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xJGVFKjp/DSCN2733.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xJGVFKjp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CnFpyzzh/DSCN2734.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnFpyzzh)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kDcdQFpB/DSCN2735.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kDcdQFpB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PCNhrpKN/DSCN2736.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCNhrpKN)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wh1cXFBS/DSCN2737.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wh1cXFBS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hXHFDCf3/DSCN2738.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXHFDCf3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZCstgYZm/DSCN2739.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCstgYZm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/67RkydZ6/DSCN2740.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/67RkydZ6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/S2hw8JL6/DSCN2742.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S2hw8JL6)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BLBRC4Nd/DSCN2744.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BLBRC4Nd)

(https://i.postimg.cc/21qRfp8Z/DSCN2746.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/21qRfp8Z)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WqpCWCHt/DSCN2747.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqpCWCHt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/6TBkp4pw/DSCN2748.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6TBkp4pw)

(https://i.postimg.cc/G9zZ834D/DSCN2749.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9zZ834D)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 11:04:20 AM
the 4 seater was a small v8 rail. customer nose dived it and folded the beam around into the side of the frame. twisted the fame a bit too. thats why he stripped it down so far to rebuild and convert.

Wow..one heck of a rebuild. Very nice final product though.

Sure looks a few of these out there for sure. Definitely shows it seems to be a great way to convert the ole beam.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 11:06:44 AM
i added vinyl graphics to it. that was 12 years ago now and it is currently for sale by the current owner at the silver lake dunes for $20k


(https://i.postimg.cc/vDjtSCjj/DSCN2914.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDjtSCjj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/N9Z2pvMk/DSCN2915.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9Z2pvMk)

(https://i.postimg.cc/34N2tZZY/DSCN2932.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/34N2tZZY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/4mVV2yp7/DSCN2933.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mVV2yp7)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Hrt5HNZT/DSCN2950.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hrt5HNZT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/NyfX0xSm/DSCN2951.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyfX0xSm)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CZmjC2kc/DSCN2952.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZmjC2kc)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v1qVxVwj/DSCN2969.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v1qVxVwj)

(https://i.postimg.cc/23q4v26x/DSCN2970.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23q4v26x)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qhNCsvk7/DSCN2972.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhNCsvk7)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 11:07:20 AM
i built this v6 rail from scratch and used my a arm front end kit.

That thing must have been one fast SOB
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 11:27:45 AM
i built this v6 rail from scratch and used my a arm front end kit.

That thing must have been one fast SOB

facebook video from the current owner. silver lake dunes and looks like a drag strip.
https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media?thread_id=100004982942097&attachment_id=1333185243724713&message_id=mid.%24cAABa9BPiXNh-0AdJwV4nsHf3OouT
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 11:30:10 AM
another fb video from him. i get a kick out of the " wrong way " signs  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media?thread_id=100004982942097&attachment_id=1150749412070694&message_id=mid.%24cAABa9BPiXNh-02PQbF4oh2XEytU9
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 15, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
it was an n/a 2001 3800 seriesII v6 out of an impala when i built it. they grabbed a super charger off a supercharged 3.8 and bolted it on and had it tunes. bumped it a bit and seems to hook up very well in the wet sand. that was a very fun rail.

https://www.facebook.com/messenger_media?thread_id=100004982942097&attachment_id=1135908206928805&message_id=mid.%24cAABa9BPiXNh-02YxfV4oh2XPCtU9
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 07:35:44 PM
it was an n/a 2001 3800 seriesII v6 out of an impala when i built it. they grabbed a super charger off a supercharged 3.8 and bolted it on and had it tunes. bumped it a bit and seems to hook up very well in the wet sand. that was a very fun rail.

Power to weight ratio must be great in that
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 15, 2021, 07:45:49 PM
Are these measurements more of what you were needing?

At the seat
At the widow base pillar
And where in the area where it would be cut
(https://i.postimg.cc/9r0dWVxn/20210515-205621-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9r0dWVxn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/87Wr5CLt/20210515-205638-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87Wr5CLt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qhmNY6dM/20210515-205703-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhmNY6dM)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 16, 2021, 06:11:11 AM
it was an n/a 2001 3800 seriesII v6 out of an impala when i built it. they grabbed a super charger off a supercharged 3.8 and bolted it on and had it tunes. bumped it a bit and seems to hook up very well in the wet sand. that was a very fun rail.

Power to weight ratio must be great in that

it seems to be well balanced. i never actually weighed that rail so i don't know. i'd guess but i was grossly wrong on my current tank  :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on May 16, 2021, 06:12:02 AM
Are these measurements more of what you were needing?

At the seat
At the widow base pillar
And where in the area where it would be cut
(https://i.postimg.cc/9r0dWVxn/20210515-205621-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9r0dWVxn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/87Wr5CLt/20210515-205638-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87Wr5CLt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qhmNY6dM/20210515-205703-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhmNY6dM)

those are the measurements i was looking for....spot on in those locations. you have a high side so this conversion will be a lot simpler.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on May 16, 2021, 05:48:11 PM
Are these measurements more of what you were needing?

At the seat
At the widow base pillar
And where in the area where it would be cut
(https://i.postimg.cc/9r0dWVxn/20210515-205621-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9r0dWVxn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/87Wr5CLt/20210515-205638-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87Wr5CLt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/qhmNY6dM/20210515-205703-resized.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhmNY6dM)

those are the measurements i was looking for....spot on in those locations. you have a high side so this conversion will be a lot simpler.

Good deal, looking forward to making this swap   :) :)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on June 17, 2021, 11:20:58 AM
Rumor has it my front end will be shipping today!!  :) :)

Looking forward to seeing this bad boy!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on June 17, 2021, 05:31:08 PM
You're going to like the upgrade!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on June 17, 2021, 08:05:30 PM
I got to see a sneak peek picture of it before it shipped, definitely gonna be an upgrade from the ole beam I believe
 :D :D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on June 18, 2021, 06:47:23 AM
yep i too heard you had a front end in route  ;)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on June 21, 2021, 10:44:24 AM
Best thing i did to my car. well next to the subie.  :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on June 21, 2021, 07:48:37 PM
Best thing i did to my car. well next to the subie.  :m

That's what I am hoping to, and I'm positive it wont disappoint. We just did a 7 day trip and logged alot miles riding in the upper peninsula of Michigan. Alot of different terrain and trails, whoops to washboard. I think my current beam set up is decent but my sons rail is arms and riding with him it sure dont take long to see and feel a difference.

Not sure on that subie though.... :m
I went a different direction and engine swapped to a 2.3 EcoBoost out of a mustang.  😊😊
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on June 22, 2021, 08:21:27 AM
so now you ha e to tell all of us the detailed info on the 2.3 ecoboost?????   

i run a built turbo 2.3 out of an '88 thunderbird. i know thaat ecobbost makes great power stock but dont know how much and at what rpms. how does the bottom end feel?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on June 22, 2021, 10:40:09 AM
so now you ha e to tell all of us the detailed info on the 2.3 ecoboost?????   

i run a built turbo 2.3 out of an '88 thunderbird. i know thaat ecobbost makes great power stock but dont know how much and at what rpms. how does the bottom end feel?
I'm with DS tell us how you like the ecoboost
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on June 22, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
yes,do tell!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on June 23, 2021, 04:08:22 PM
 LMAO

Opened up a cam worms there huh! It's a fantastic engine and blast to drive. I'm at 28hrs on the engine currently since putting it in so still early though. I had a 2.0 EcoBoost in it the last 2 years out of 2013 fusion but over the winter swapped mine to a 2.3 out a of 2018 mustang and swapped the 2.0 into my sons rail. That has probably 90 hours on it by now.
I'll check back in later tonight when I got a minute to type more to give ya the build history of each and more importantly how they run, i have feeling that's what you really want to know..  :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2021, 11:34:44 AM
yep we want to know how it runs  :D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on June 24, 2021, 07:32:14 PM
It was like xmas morning at my house today  8)
Came home from work to find a nice box waiting for me  ;D
Of course its already in the garage and opened up and ideas flowing on how to proceed.
We have a 4th weekend trip planned, after that shes getting a makeover, I can't wait to get started.
Big thanks to those who helped get this here..... :)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2021, 08:22:35 PM
It was like xmas morning at my house today  8)
Came home from work to find a nice box waiting for me  ;D
Of course its already in the garage and opened up and ideas flowing on how to proceed.
We have a 4th weekend trip planned, after that shes getting a makeover, I can't wait to get started.
Big thanks to those who helped get this here..... :)

enjoy and post pics.
christmas is always a great time lol
we are still wanting to here how well the 2.3 ecoboost does  ;D

there not hard to install just takes some time. i'm sure you will find the right fit for your frame. always interesting to see the variations on installs.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on June 30, 2021, 08:26:31 AM
Around 4 years ago I had the idea of trying the Ecoboost, I’m a Ford guy so an Ecotech was not an option, I did consider Subie but really wanted something different. The power to weight ratio of the Ecoboost really had me curious so after researching the control packs that Ford Performance had for the engines in a stand-alone kit I thought I would give a try. At that time I started with a 2.0. I was really surprised how cheap I could find these engines to pick up. I located one, brought it home then over the winter worked on the swap. Kennedy supplied the adapter and he rest was adding the fuel system and water cooling ability. Over all a pretty easy swap for someone that had not done one. Until…….I went to purchase the control pack. After I had the swap complete minus the pack I realized that Ford Performance had discontinued the control pack for 2.0 in favor of the 2.3 engine that had come out for the mustang. I could not find one anywhere. Many talks later with a very helpful gentleman from F.P. (he really did try everything he could to help me with no luck) I shelved the 2.0 and decided to save for a future swap to the 2.3 being I was already set up for it. Being I was ready to purchase the control pack I went ahead and bought a 2.3 kit just so I knew I would have it for that someday swap so I didn’t run into this when I did it. I was assured by anyone I asked that the 2.3 kit would not run a 2.0 engine. I had hoped there was a way to use it and find someone to re-program it but iwas told it was not an option… Once I received the kit curiosity got the best of me and I installed it any way. Long story short the engine did fire and it was music to my ears. I ran that set-up for 2 years putting over 70 hours on it. That engine over the winter was pulled and we swapped it into my son’s rail and it is still going strong with close to 100 hours on it now.
At the same time we swapped the 2.0 to his I picked up a 2.3 from a mustang and put it in mine. Engine went right in with same adapter and after changing 2 things (only because the engine was a 2018 model and the pack runs 15-17 model years) the engine fired rite up. The F.P. kits make this so easy, the only thing I wish they would do is give you the option to purchase pieces from the kit instead of all of it. We only needed 3 pieces from the kit so the rest goes un-used so a lot of cost for this. Those can be sold though.  I have 25 hours on this engine now and am loving it.
Knock on wood these have proven quite reliable and maintenance free. The fun factor is 10 as well. You can Sunday cruise all day or build boost and have perma-grin. Anyone we take for a ride gets out smiling and shaking their heads. They build boost really quick with almost no notice of any turbo lag at all. We both have tablets on board using Torque Pro to monitor the engine. I have wanted to play around with logging to compare spool to RPM but have not done yet. I will have to do that in the near future and report back. In comparison to “seat of the pants” feel, they engines feel pretty similar to one another. They both spool quickly and pull pretty well. We both agree the 2.3 seems to have more up top RPM than the 2.0 but other than that they are surprisingly close. They are both running the same programming which was what came from Ford Performance out of the box.
We have scaled both cars since completed, they are 2 totally different variations of rails so they vary quite a bit. His tipped the scale at 1560 wet no one in it and mine at 1860 wet with no one in it. Mine will be going on a diet very soon with a very nice, newly acquired a-arm kit!!! (Thank you!). Hoping to start this build in the coming weeks, I am sure I will be asking plenty of questions and plan to take picture along the way to share.
Sorry for the delay getting this rite up out there for you, it has been a very busy few weeks for me. I’ll try to answer any questions I can if you are curious about anything specific.
 :D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on July 01, 2021, 08:31:15 AM
sounds like a great engine. stock Numbers 0f 350 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 350 lb-ft @ 3,200 rpm. sound like it would be a reliable motor at that. Its going to be fun keeping the front end on the Ground.  Just a ball park Guess. what was the Cost of motor/ adapter and Ford Power system??
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 01, 2021, 02:16:32 PM
big dave, that turbo 2.3 ecoboost runs $2k from the junk yards, around here that is. that changes quite a bit but the 3.5 twin turbo coboost is $3500 or $3k if you know the onwer of the salvage yard lol  prob with the 3.5 is i wont leave it stock!   plenty of people turn them up to 600 hp very easily!  so a 2d wont cut it and thats a big nut to crack  :m   now i run a turbo 2.3.......lima not ecoboost. mines a well built 2.3 out of an 88 thunderbird. i too was born with a blue oval on my cheek   ;) ;D   i know the ecoboost makes more power if not for anyother reason then a quadvalve head! better intake, better head flow as well as  variable cam timing. theres more but you already know.  that 3.5 ecoboost would be a riot.....just need an expensive trans.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 01, 2021, 03:20:32 PM
sounds like a great engine. stock Numbers 0f 350 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 350 lb-ft @ 3,200 rpm. sound like it would be a reliable motor at that. Its going to be fun keeping the front end on the Ground.  Just a ball park Guess. what was the Cost of motor/ adapter and Ford Power system??

no dyno sheet to back this up but many many dyno posts on turbo fod forum that my 2.3 doesnt make peak tq until about 4200 or 4400. we were able to see that reflected in the data log back in the beginning but dont remember for sure. it followed suit with the posts on the forum. if that true then the eco 2.3 is making peak tq 1000 rpm sooner ......thats huge in my book. i hope aprilfools makes a trip to ls so i can see this run in person!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 07, 2021, 06:36:11 AM
sounds like a great engine. stock Numbers 0f 350 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 350 lb-ft @ 3,200 rpm. sound like it would be a reliable motor at that. Its going to be fun keeping the front end on the Ground.  Just a ball park Guess. what was the Cost of motor/ adapter and Ford Power system??

The adapter for the 2.0 & 2.3 are the same. adapter, clutch, presure plate, & flywheel were around 750 shipped.
The control pack to run the engines are 1800 shipped. This is more costly than it should be but this kit makes it so simple and is done well by Ford Performance. I just wish they would let you pick the parts you needed as we used a third of what came in the kit being we swap the engines into a car. But it really is simple to install and make an engine fire.
The 2.0 engine we got a complete wrecked car for 700. These 2.0 engines can be had for cheap! The 2.3 is definitely more, this one came out of 2018 with only 18k on the odometer. But a 10 speed trans was hooked to it and i got the radiator, inter cooler and few other things i could sell to help offset costs. I picked that up for 2700. But DS is correct, 2k is a ballpark salvage yard cost.
I went all AN on my fuel & coolant systems (for safety reasons) and that added to the cost as well.
Probably not the cheapest swap that can be done for sure, but i will say first time you accelerate through the gears the thoughts about cost start to fade and the perma-grin takes it place!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 07, 2021, 06:44:13 AM
big dave, that turbo 2.3 ecoboost runs $2k from the junk yards, around here that is. that changes quite a bit but the 3.5 twin turbo coboost is $3500 or $3k if you know the onwer of the salvage yard lol  prob with the 3.5 is i wont leave it stock!   plenty of people turn them up to 600 hp very easily!  so a 2d wont cut it and thats a big nut to crack  :m   now i run a turbo 2.3.......lima not ecoboost. mines a well built 2.3 out of an 88 thunderbird. i too was born with a blue oval on my cheek   ;) ;D   i know the ecoboost makes more power if not for anyother reason then a quadvalve head! better intake, better head flow as well as  variable cam timing. theres more but you already know.  that 3.5 ecoboost would be a riot.....just need an expensive trans.

Funny you mention the 3.5
I thought about this but just didnt have the room. I did come across a pretty nice frame that was bigger and was a good deal back a few months ago. I could see that car done in my head and i did picture it with a 3.5 when completed. But as i procrastinated building another car it sold, so my thoughts of building one with a 3.5 went away. But maybe someday.... :m
I cant imagine how that engine would be after running this 2.3. And i have alot of tuning left on the table i believe as well. So i am pretty happy with this set up.
You bring up another valued point as well, drive line. Building a stronger box is defintly one of things on my future to do lists that i need to consider.
A suspension upgrade is in my very very near future  :) :)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 07, 2021, 06:52:32 AM
sounds like a great engine. stock Numbers 0f 350 hp @ 6,000 rpm and 350 lb-ft @ 3,200 rpm. sound like it would be a reliable motor at that. Its going to be fun keeping the front end on the Ground.  Just a ball park Guess. what was the Cost of motor/ adapter and Ford Power system??

no dyno sheet to back this up but many many dyno posts on turbo fod forum that my 2.3 doesnt make peak tq until about 4200 or 4400. we were able to see that reflected in the data log back in the beginning but dont remember for sure. it followed suit with the posts on the forum. if that true then the eco 2.3 is making peak tq 1000 rpm sooner ......thats huge in my book. i hope aprilfools makes a trip to ls so i can see this run in person!

I will see if i can do some data logging and share this to see what it shows, i am very curious as well.

The family and i are definitely wanting to do a trip to another dune, so i am hoping we can make this happen, although i am not sure when we could with all we having going on, maybe next summer? But we definitely would like to do this.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on July 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
sounds like a very affordable set up. For what i have in my Qutfront 2.5 Subura motor. I could have went this way and bought a Mendeola and motor. lol lol  Thanks for the update.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 07, 2021, 06:33:17 PM
the suspension upgrade will be huge!

would love to see a data log at some point.

def make a trip to little sahara someday, you will enjoy the dunes and more impotantly the very few rules lol
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 10, 2021, 08:05:40 PM
Well, finally got a start on upgrading suspension today, started on the year, with the new front end i  decided to update the rear to 3x3's and 930's. My plan was to have that done today so i could cut off the front end tomorrow. Unfortunately I didnt make it as far as i hoped to today . I am really hoping to get this wrapped up tomorrow so i can start on the front. My tubing will be ready to pick up monday so i am ready to get this project under motion 👍

So what type of tubing bender are all you gents using?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 11, 2021, 06:41:11 AM
that is going to ride like a whole new rail!

i use a jd bender .
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 11, 2021, 08:23:55 AM
I use the Pro-Tools PT105 Basically the same bender as the JD.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 11, 2021, 06:04:11 PM
Ill give them a look, appreciate the info

Got the rear finished up today, took a little longer than i planned (self inflicted issues...) but i am really happy with the results. If i can get home at a decent time tomorrow i plan to get it on stands and leveled to start the front  ;D ;D

Hope to have pictures of the progress up this week   👍👍
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 11, 2021, 09:14:38 PM
If you happen to buy a PT105 and need 1 5/8" 270* die I have a brand new one,never used I'd sell for 1/2 new price + shipping.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 14, 2021, 05:34:05 AM
Well no turning back now!  ;)

Some before and current pics


(https://i.postimg.cc/NyvZQSgZ/20210705-162128.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NyvZQSgZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xq1hjK2j/20210705-162141.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xq1hjK2j)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7fTBb9Q4/20210712-190202.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7fTBb9Q4)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8Fw4x0sR/20210712-190212.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8Fw4x0sR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WF38VwJQ/20210712-190220.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WF38VwJQ)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 14, 2021, 05:35:22 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/MnSYHSQ0/20210713-181054.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MnSYHSQ0)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wtW5wRbF/20210713-181138.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtW5wRbF)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kBrQYmfr/20210713-181150.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBrQYmfr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HccM3ZMs/20210713-181207.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HccM3ZMs)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 14, 2021, 05:37:45 AM

(https://i.postimg.cc/hQRXsSgp/20210713-190546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQRXsSgp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sBB1RBgT/20210713-190518.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBB1RBgT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XGjNxxzB/20210713-190534.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XGjNxxzB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XXDNcfcX/20210713-190559.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XXDNcfcX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y43M4YCr/20210713-190604.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Y43M4YCr)

(https://i.postimg.cc/K3K2sWrj/20210713-190619.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K3K2sWrj)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 14, 2021, 07:08:10 AM
AW man,you cut your nose off.    You'll like the transplant.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 14, 2021, 11:13:46 AM
how much weight do you think this will shed? just a guess, you know  the front end weighs 92.65 lbs. of course, that is w/o the tubing you will use to blend it in .

looks like a great start and looks like it will be done soon!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 14, 2021, 12:26:23 PM
I am thinking more than I originally thought, obviously your kit can be picked up and carried no problemo, it took 2 of us to carry out the front section we cut out!! I took it out in one piece just so I could see and feel the weight difference. 
I have done a 4 corner scale with a total weight as it was,  definitely will be doing another when it is completed. 
This is the before;


(https://i.postimg.cc/ts1F6Qfm/20210509-123155.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts1F6Qfm)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 14, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
I am thinking more than I originally thought, obviously your kit can be picked up and carried no problemo, it took 2 of us to carry out the front section we cut out!! I took it out in one piece just so I could see and feel the weight difference. 
I have done a 4 corner scale with a total weight as it was,  definitely will be doing another when it is completed. 
This is the before;


(https://i.postimg.cc/ts1F6Qfm/20210509-123155.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ts1F6Qfm)

i am glad you you did as it will be very interesting to know how much weight you dropped off the front end!

on another note..... my rail is 110 lbs heavier  ;D :m  it's a tank but not the heaviest one in the group  ;) ;D :m
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: big dave on July 15, 2021, 09:50:41 AM
YOUR GOING TO LOVE IT.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 18, 2021, 02:29:51 PM
Ya,but mine rides like a magic flying carpet.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 18, 2021, 02:31:19 PM
YOUR GOING TO LOVE IT.
That he will !
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 18, 2021, 06:59:12 PM
Making some pretty good progress on it. Have the cradle all fully welded in now and the main braces in. Still have to put some more bracing in but wanted to get the steering shaft in first and mock up suspension before finishing up that.

If this rides half as good as it is starting to look with this swap i will be ecstatic!!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 18, 2021, 07:21:17 PM
So i took the day off from the a-arm swap project today as we decided to work on the engine for my daughters rail today. This may be a great place to ask these questions as i believe one of you mentioned you are running the first gen 2.3 set up 😊😊

We kinda are....but not really, so i am hoping you guys can help me out.
The engine we installed in her rail today is 2165 VW, but it is running the complete fuel injection, distributor and electronics from a Ford 2.3 along with a garret turbo. All the parts are either from a 84 mustang or 87 thunder bird super coupe, I am not 100% sure, i was told either when i purchased all these parts. After a complete rebuild and some other work we finally installed the engine today. Without many hiccups the engine fired. I now have it if you hit the key it fires right up and sits there and purrs. If the throttle is just lightly but quickly hit it raps up fairly quickly but if anything more than that it will miss and lose RPM fast. I am assuming fuel issue but 100% sure yet. I just called it a night after getting it to fire so have not had much time to tinker with it.

So i am wondering, what are these engines timed at? And what should the fuel pressure be set at? I read 38-42 but not sure if this is with vacuum on or off of regulator at an idle? My Ecoboost you set with vacuum off. Its kind of confusing with some of this, may sound odd but at first i wasn't sure if i time it like a VW or to what the 2.3 should be. I currently have it at 10* as that is what read for the 84 2.3.








 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 18, 2021, 09:03:54 PM
Few pics of the project



(https://i.postimg.cc/1gV6yfQ5/20210219-125510.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gV6yfQ5)

(https://i.postimg.cc/PL6SLLpG/20210219-125517.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PL6SLLpG)

(https://i.postimg.cc/8svbGXHg/20210219-125532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8svbGXHg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CnpkdYNT/20210219-125538.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CnpkdYNT)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 19, 2021, 01:12:48 PM
Ya,but mine rides like a magic flying carpet.

 LMAO :m now what made you think i was referring to your sand rail??  :D  also i know yours does as a result of that weight.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 19, 2021, 01:17:50 PM
So i took the day off from the a-arm swap project today as we decided to work on the engine for my daughters rail today. This may be a great place to ask these questions as i believe one of you mentioned you are running the first gen 2.3 set up 😊😊

We kinda are....but not really, so i am hoping you guys can help me out.
The engine we installed in her rail today is 2165 VW, but it is running the complete fuel injection, distributor and electronics from a Ford 2.3 along with a garret turbo. All the parts are either from a 84 mustang or 87 thunder bird super coupe, I am not 100% sure, i was told either when i purchased all these parts. After a complete rebuild and some other work we finally installed the engine today. Without many hiccups the engine fired. I now have it if you hit the key it fires right up and sits there and purrs. If the throttle is just lightly but quickly hit it raps up fairly quickly but if anything more than that it will miss and lose RPM fast. I am assuming fuel issue but 100% sure yet. I just called it a night after getting it to fire so have not had much time to tinker with it.

So i am wondering, what are these engines timed at? And what should the fuel pressure be set at? I read 38-42 but not sure if this is with vacuum on or off of regulator at an idle? My Ecoboost you set with vacuum off. Its kind of confusing with some of this, may sound odd but at first i wasn't sure if i time it like a VW or to what the 2.3 should be. I currently have it at 10* as that is what read for the 84 2.3.

nice project!   
dont quote me on this but i would start with auto enrich settings on that stutter. mine does it too when i shut ae off. if your running the vane air meter and a stock ecu then it could be mechanical timing or that vam.    could be you need a lot more ae for that combination as well. you'll need a stand along ecu to do anybetter. a pimp ecu is what the lima 2.3 guys used.  lima then duratec then ecoboost. if you look on turbo ford or stinger performance , you may find a used one for $400 to $500. they have base conservitive timing maps.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 19, 2021, 01:19:51 PM
the reason i say that is because you can get rid of the egr and vam with the micro squirt or megasquirt pimp ecu's. pimp, pimpx are microsquirt and pimpxs is megasquirt systems. open source so any competant tuner can tune them.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 19, 2021, 01:20:39 PM
not to tute ones own horn.....ya they look better converted to a arm  :D ;D
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 19, 2021, 04:40:48 PM
not to tute ones own horn.....ya they look better converted to a arm  :D ;D

For sure they do! Everyone that has came in the garage while we are working on this make s compliments about that
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 19, 2021, 04:49:36 PM
Appreciate the feedback on the 2.3 systems.
It is using that (dam) vam thing, hoping to get it running with all the stock components then go from there. I think I have it down to a timing issue. Not 100% but it sure runs and sounds like it.
Everything I read says u have to unplug the "spout" to time, set at 10* btdc plug in and good to go. Well the previous guy cut that out and wired some things together in the harness where this spout thing should be. beathorse.gif~c200. So i set it at 10* as is but when slowing bringing revs up it doesnt advance, it seems to want to but does not. Starts "ok" pending timing at 10* plus/minus some, does seem to kick back over 10*. Idles all day long but just sounds "off".

Any thoughts on what I can do or should try?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 19, 2021, 07:07:31 PM
Well I believe I was wrong. It has to be fuel causing my issue. We put gas in a spray bottle and spristed a shot into the intake rite  at the point it would lose rpm and it sang a beautiful turbo rpm melody to us!! So now I have to figure why it wont feed enough fuel as the R's increase.
I have the fuel pressure set at 40lbs with the manifold boost reference not hooked, when I hook it back up it drops to around 30. Seems to come back up when rpms do. Being this is a Frankenstein set up, not sure if that is set correctly?

Any thoughts on what we can try?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 19, 2021, 07:23:26 PM
Check out the throttle position sensor.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 19, 2021, 07:38:21 PM
Check out the throttle position sensor.

Thanks Fabr, will do that
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 20, 2021, 07:28:06 AM
Just asking ,do you know how to check it out using an analog volt meter? It is the first thing I would check. Then move on to all the other sensors. I assume you have double checked that all sensors are plugged into the correct wiring connector? On some harnesses it is very easy to plug the wrong connector to a sensor .
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 20, 2021, 10:43:31 AM
Appreciate the feedback on the 2.3 systems.
It is using that (dam) vam thing, hoping to get it running with all the stock components then go from there. I think I have it down to a timing issue. Not 100% but it sure runs and sounds like it.
Everything I read says u have to unplug the "spout" to time, set at 10* btdc plug in and good to go. Well the previous guy cut that out and wired some things together in the harness where this spout thing should be. beathorse.gif~c200. So i set it at 10* as is but when slowing bringing revs up it doesnt advance, it seems to want to but does not. Starts "ok" pending timing at 10* plus/minus some, does seem to kick back over 10*. Idles all day long but just sounds "off".

Any thoughts on what I can do or should try?

if your using the stock dizzy with stock ignition module then yes you need the snout. that produces the advance and you do need and def will cause timing issues. yes you unplug to verify 10* and cam timing on a lima motor is important too. vw is diff so maybe not an issue there.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 20, 2021, 11:46:04 AM
Just asking ,do you know how to check it out using an analog volt meter? It is the first thing I would check. Then move on to all the other sensors. I assume you have double checked that all sensors are plugged into the correct wiring connector? On some harnesses it is very easy to plug the wrong connector to a sensor .

Unfortunately no, I have not ever checked one of these. But I have printed detailed instructions on how it is done and plan to give this a look tonight. I'll report back what I find out.

I did take a look at all the connections and all seem in proper place and hooked. I did find a possible vacuum issue that i doubt is the problem but i am still going to change how I had it just to see.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 20, 2021, 11:58:09 AM
Appreciate the feedback on the 2.3 systems.
It is using that (dam) vam thing, hoping to get it running with all the stock components then go from there. I think I have it down to a timing issue. Not 100% but it sure runs and sounds like it.
Everything I read says u have to unplug the "spout" to time, set at 10* btdc plug in and good to go. Well the previous guy cut that out and wired some things together in the harness where this spout thing should be. beathorse.gif~c200. So i set it at 10* as is but when slowing bringing revs up it doesnt advance, it seems to want to but does not. Starts "ok" pending timing at 10* plus/minus some, does seem to kick back over 10*. Idles all day long but just sounds "off".

Any thoughts on what I can do or should try?

if your using the stock dizzy with stock ignition module then yes you need the snout. that produces the advance and you do need and def will cause timing issues. yes you unplug to verify 10* and cam timing on a lima motor is important too. vw is diff so maybe not an issue there.

That's definitely been a issue un itself, trying to decipher what needs to be VW and what needs to follow the electronics for the Ford parts. It seems to be quite the combo....
Some of this I have been impressed with how it was done/built and some seems to be a cobble job. I'm guessing inside some of the cobble lies my issue. This set up had to run and run well at some point as the heads were pushed out do to them over boosting the crap out of it.
We have rebuilt the entire engine and I changed how the intake was some to clean it up and some small other things. After tinkering with it I believe I had it wrong and it is timed according to a VW. The fuel system is "mechanical " with the exception of the fuel injection.  The tps could be the issue, if not it could even be my fuel regulator or pump. Definitely no instruction manual with this one!! Appreciate all the tips and info this far from the group, I'll report back my findings.
I got to get this running so I can get back to my front end!!  ;)
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 20, 2021, 04:31:24 PM
Just asking ,do you know how to check it out using an analog volt meter? It is the first thing I would check. Then move on to all the other sensors. I assume you have double checked that all sensors are plugged into the correct wiring connector? On some harnesses it is very easy to plug the wrong connector to a sensor .

Unfortunately no, I have not ever checked one of these. But I have printed detailed instructions on how it is done and plan to give this a look tonight. I'll report back what I find out.

I did take a look at all the connections and all seem in proper place and hooked. I did find a possible vacuum issue that i doubt is the problem but i am still going to change how I had it just to see.
Just be sure to use an old school analog,not digital, voltmeter. You cannot see if the tps has a clean sweep from closed to full open with a digital.

 Your issue may not be the tps but I'll guarantee you that if it is the culprit nothing you do otherwise willl fix it. That's why I'd check it first. Quick and easy to do.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 21, 2021, 03:36:56 PM
as fabr said .... check the tps first.
def re connect the snout wire. i am not even sure you'll get auto enrich with the snout disconnected. which in essence would be the pump shot if it were a carb.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 21, 2021, 06:02:54 PM
That's definitely been a issue un itself, trying to decipher what needs to be VW and what needs to follow the electronics for the Ford parts. It seems to be quite the combo....
Some of this I have been impressed with how it was done/built and some seems to be a cobble job. I'm guessing inside some of the cobble lies my issue. This set up had to run and run well at some point as the heads were pushed out do to them over boosting the crap out of it.
We have rebuilt the entire engine and I changed how the intake was some to clean it up and some small other things. After tinkering with it I believe I had it wrong and it is timed according to a VW. The fuel system is "mechanical " with the exception of the fuel injection.  The tps could be the issue, if not it could even be my fuel regulator or pump. Definitely no instruction manual with this one!! Appreciate all the tips and info this far from the group, I'll report back my findings.
I got to get this running so I can get back to my front end!!  ;)
[/quote]

What do you mean the heads were blown out? Do you mean the head gaskets?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 21, 2021, 07:47:37 PM
That's definitely been a issue un itself, trying to decipher what needs to be VW and what needs to follow the electronics for the Ford parts. It seems to be quite the combo....
Some of this I have been impressed with how it was done/built and some seems to be a cobble job. I'm guessing inside some of the cobble lies my issue. This set up had to run and run well at some point as the heads were pushed out do to them over boosting the crap out of it.
We have rebuilt the entire engine and I changed how the intake was some to clean it up and some small other things. After tinkering with it I believe I had it wrong and it is timed according to a VW. The fuel system is "mechanical " with the exception of the fuel injection.  The tps could be the issue, if not it could even be my fuel regulator or pump. Definitely no instruction manual with this one!! Appreciate all the tips and info this far from the group, I'll report back my findings.
I got to get this running so I can get back to my front end!!  ;)

What do you mean the heads were blown out? Do you mean the head gaskets?
[/quote]

No sir, VW type 1's have no head gaskets.  It literally made enough sustained boost that it pushed the heads themselves out, aka, stretched the head studs. We did fire this engine last fall briefly after acquiring, but it ran real rough and had a terrible compression leak between the heads and cylinders. We also found out the valves didnt seal and leaked there as well. Shes been freshened up, all new studs, case savers and heads as well. I really believe they did this intentionally from what I found with the boost control, waste gate and blow off valve. Why they would do this i have no idea. 
Shes in a much better home now!

Took some tinkering but we have finally made great progress on this. Turned out to be ground issues causing most of our issues. Last night we lost spark as well and had no idea why. Tonight we tested all 12v points in harness and had them. Then we tested grounds and found 3 not connected in the harness.  After running those we had spark and fuel again. It is now timed (VW style) and advances just like it should when watching with a light. It starts great, idles good but does have a fuel issue through the RPM's. I did test the tps, all voltage is good but when sweeping it gets erratic and not smooth, especially when around 3/4 throttle.  This is felt when driving to. I have ordered a new sensor, will be here next week. Really appreciate the advice pointing towards this and the info on the meter to test. I really hope this cures these issues!! If so this will be a great little motor for this rail. While I wait for this to get here I can get back to my front end to!!
Can videos be posted here? If so I'll throw up one of the engine running. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 21, 2021, 08:06:09 PM
great you found the bad grounds! that will always bit a guy in the back side.

as far as video's....have to up load them to site like youtube or rumble and post the link.

i am amazed it runs with out the snout connector! wonder what they did to bypass that??
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 21, 2021, 08:07:43 PM
as fabr said .... check the tps first.
def re connect the snout wire. i am not even sure you'll get auto enrich with the snout disconnected. which in essence would be the pump shot if it were a carb.

After going through the harness tonight the snout has been removed and is gone. There are wires in the pigtail that goes to the distributor that are cut, some are spliced together.  This was all done prior to me acquiring this. It is advancing now but I am curious of what you mention above with the "auto enrich "? It does seem to stumble right when boost would come on, would this effect that? Or could the TPS as well? After the stumble and hesitations (which are lean) it does finally increase fuel pressure, makes boost and pressure does increase while building boost when watching the fuel gauge. So I am curious of this auto enrich?
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 21, 2021, 08:12:35 PM
great you found the bad grounds! that will always bit a guy in the back side.

as far as video's....have to up load them to site like youtube or rumble and post the link.

i am amazed it runs with out the snout connector! wonder what they did to bypass that??

I'm not sure, the wiring in this thing is a head scratcher to say the least.  There are alot of things missing. But most everything I have tested tests ok. I will admit, I can work on about anything but electrical is not my area at all!! So I get stumped quickly chasing this stuff down.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 22, 2021, 06:30:39 AM
Sorry,I had it in my head you were running the Ford engine with VW controls but it's the other way around. I worked at a VW dealership in the engine/trans dept about 45 years ago. If the head to cylinder surfaces were not good we would lap them in just like doing valves. If that didn't do the trick there were annealed aluminum crush washers/gaskets that we would use. You are correct that there were no head gaskets as such from the factory.

Glad you found the ground issues and the TPS being glitchy. Fix that before you do more to it . You may find all is well then. 
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 22, 2021, 07:09:47 AM
i would like to know how they are getting the stock tfi to function with all the bypassns you described. i wouldn't believe that to work but somehow they have.

auto enrich ( ae) is like the accel pump shot in a carb. its done a few diff ways but in your case ( with a stock ecu) its done via the vam and or tps. that vam is a very early and poor version of a mass air flow sensor, (maf sensor). they do work but there not as a instant response as tps/map based. my megasquirt ecu doesnt use a maf but rather just a map and tps for ae.

as fabr stated above.....replace the tps and verify it operating the correct voltage range. that should help the stumble. beyond that, would have to know what/why whomever bypassed the tfi. if they truly bypassed it then there must be something else controller timing. i wonder if they went with a mechanical advance from the older carb version??
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: fabr on July 22, 2021, 07:49:21 AM
i would like to know how they are getting the stock tfi to function with all the bypassns you described. i wouldn't believe that to work but somehow they have.

auto enrich ( ae) is like the accel pump shot in a carb. its done a few diff ways but in your case ( with a stock ecu) its done via the vam and or tps. that vam is a very early and poor version of a mass air flow sensor, (maf sensor). they do work but there not as a instant response as tps/map based. my megasquirt ecu doesnt use a maf but rather just a map and tps for ae.

as fabr stated above.....replace the tps and verify it operating the correct voltage range. that should help the stumble. beyond that, would have to know what/why whomever bypassed the tfi. if they truly bypassed it then there must be something else controller timing. i wonder if they went with a mechanical advance from the older carb version??
I bet you would be right.
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 22, 2021, 08:50:58 AM
thats the only way i can imagine. i am not sure why one would go to that amount of time and effort then use a carb mechanical advance??!! the motorcraft tfi modules had lengthy lives. the ecu has an effect on timing and uses tps and vam ( vane air meter) for ae fueling. so bypassing that , imo, was counter productive by that person.   at the same time i feel the vam is no kill mouse trap  :D  but it does work
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 22, 2021, 01:29:01 PM
Sorry,I had it in my head you were running the Ford engine with VW controls but it's the other way around. I worked at a VW dealership in the engine/trans dept about 45 years ago. If the head to cylinder surfaces were not good we would lap them in just like doing valves. If that didn't do the trick there were annealed aluminum crush washers/gaskets that we would use. You are correct that there were no head gaskets as such from the factory.

Glad you found the ground issues and the TPS being glitchy. Fix that before you do more to it . You may find all is well then.

My VW engine builder is a close friend of mine, he tried and tried to get the old heads to seal using that lapping method. I even machined the floor of the heads to give a "new surface" and no luck. It was best to make them boat anchors instead of trusting them on this engine!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 22, 2021, 01:36:11 PM
i would like to know how they are getting the stock tfi to function with all the bypassns you described. i wouldn't believe that to work but somehow they have.

auto enrich ( ae) is like the accel pump shot in a carb. its done a few diff ways but in your case ( with a stock ecu) its done via the vam and or tps. that vam is a very early and poor version of a mass air flow sensor, (maf sensor). they do work but there not as a instant response as tps/map based. my megasquirt ecu doesnt use a maf but rather just a map and tps for ae.

as fabr stated above.....replace the tps and verify it operating the correct voltage range. that should help the stumble. beyond that, would have to know what/why whomever bypassed the tfi. if they truly bypassed it then there must be something else controller timing. i wonder if they went with a mechanical advance from the older carb version??
I bet you would be right.

I am surprised as anyone that this combo runs, not sure why they went this way either. Maybe a cheep way to get EFI on a VW? Not sure really.  I think you guys are correct on the distributor, we bought spare one at salvage yard for parts last fall and it ended up having the guts inside completely different.

The VAM thing is definitely not ideal, i just done know a way around it. I am hoping to get it to run good or at least decent and then figure out how to improve it. Or if not change it over to a blow through carb!
Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: Aprilfools on July 26, 2021, 07:57:01 PM
Managed to do a little more on the front end while waiting for the TPS on the other project. Still got a long ways to go as far as bracing and such but definitely making progress. Been a fun project for my son and I.






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Title: Re: DS a-arm kit information needed.
Post by: dsrace on July 28, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
looks really good. for some reason i cannot expand the pictures. i see you went a diff route on shock mounts and they look like they'll work very niecely. did you weigh the steel beam front end?   wont be long and you'll be testing that rail.

completely transformed the look of the rail!!   i like them better this way but i may be a smidge biased  ;D