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Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: big dave on January 08, 2018, 10:28:53 AM

Title: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 08, 2018, 10:28:53 AM
WELL I DID IT 2.5 DOHC SUBARU OUTFROUNT MOTOR HAS BEEN ORDERED.  :s :s :s :s :swig: :swig: dd: dd:
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 08, 2018, 10:37:49 AM
well good to hear...does this mean the vw bus sold? 

i thought you had decided on the turnkey 600 hp 3.0 6cyl from out front????










 ;) rofl
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 08, 2018, 10:38:53 AM
soooooo what are we talking 4 weeks installed and running?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on January 08, 2018, 11:25:15 AM
Plenty of time to hit the dunes this spring........................
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 08, 2018, 11:53:27 AM
yes there is!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 08, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
soooooo what are we talking 4 weeks installed and running?
Three week lead time on motor build.  I'm thanking, I will not be able to sleep tell it is running. so ya maybe 24 hours after it hits the house,  it will be running. to be honest it should slide right in where the 2.0 was. wire and plum it and go.   rofl rofl rofl ya right. Went with race fuel  110 over E85. on 10 psi of boost John says race fuel.  6 psi I can run pump gas. it would be the difference of 280 hp pump gas or 340 race fuel. I was very happy with the old Vw hp.  I may try pump gas at first. then If needed,  say like a trip to saint Anthony's turn it up to the 340 when it is really needed.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 08, 2018, 01:12:46 PM
Plenty of time to hit the dunes this spring........................
oh ya I will be there.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 08, 2018, 01:24:36 PM
soooooo what are we talking 4 weeks installed and running?
Three week lead time on motor build.  I'm thanking, I will not be able to sleep tell it is running. so ya maybe 24 hours after it hits the house,  it will be running. to be honest it should slide right in where the 2.0 was. wire and plum it and go.   rofl rofl rofl ya right. Went with race fuel  110 over E85. on 10 psi of boost John says race fuel.  6 psi I can run pump gas. it would be the difference of 280 hp pump gas or 340 race fuel. I was very happy with the old Vw hp.  I may try pump gas at first. then If needed,  say like a trip to saint Anthony's turn it up to the 340 when it is really needed.

good plan! pump gas is the easiest and most readily available! e85 has some really good benefits but bled differs from town to town and even more so state to state. honestly there is another post with 2 calculators........there are a lot of street racers mixing pump fuel and e85 for say e40 to e55 blend for the higher octane with out the cost of 110 leaded race fuel.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 08, 2018, 01:33:20 PM
soooooo what are we talking 4 weeks installed and running?
Three week lead time on motor build.  I'm thanking, I will not be able to sleep tell it is running. so ya maybe 24 hours after it hits the house,  it will be running. to be honest it should slide right in where the 2.0 was. wire and plum it and go.   rofl rofl rofl ya right. Went with race fuel  110 over E85. on 10 psi of boost John says race fuel.  6 psi I can run pump gas. it would be the difference of 280 hp pump gas or 340 race fuel. I was very happy with the old Vw hp.  I may try pump gas at first. then If needed,  say like a trip to saint Anthony's turn it up to the 340 when it is really needed.

good plan! pump gas is the easiest and most readily available! e85 has some really good benefits but bled differs from town to town and even more so state to state. honestly there is another post with 2 calculators........there are a lot of street racers mixing pump fuel and e85 for say e40 to e55 blend for the higher octane with out the cost of 110 leaded race fuel.
I need to do the research on that. race fuel is hard to come by around here. I like to buy 50 gallon drum when I get it. but you have to put in for it with the locale vender then what tell he get enough guys buying, to go get a load. other then that its drive 3.5 hours one way to get it. we do have E85 on pump and the price of it, as you know is 3rd the price as race gas.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 08, 2018, 02:19:10 PM
we are lucky enough to have 2 locations that i know in the city of lincoln, for 95 octane and 100 octane. both unleaded so best for 02 sensors. expensive , yes.....but the expense of 20 gals for a 3 or 4 day trip to the dunes is actually minimal compared to the entire trip expense.   now if one was to pre mix e40 to e55 for the higher octane and i say pre mix for consistant blend or by by the drum like fabbr and thin out with 87 octane, perfect everytime and cheaper.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 08, 2018, 03:23:15 PM
well good to hear...does this mean the vw bus sold? 

i thought you had decided on the turnkey 600 hp 3.0 6cyl from out front????

No bus has not sold. I sold the 2.0  out of my car.  I'm thanking you my need that 6cyl. it's to much for my bank.  :m :m










 ;) rofl
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 08, 2018, 03:49:24 PM
well good to hear...does this mean the vw bus sold? 

i thought you had decided on the turnkey 600 hp 3.0 6cyl from out front????

No bus has not sold. I sold the 2.0  out of my car.  I'm thanking you my need that 6cyl. it's to much for my bank.  :m :m










 ;) rofl



 ;D bs1  your pockets are far deeper than mine! new diesel and new rail powerplant  rofl rofl  ;) ;) :D
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on January 09, 2018, 04:57:58 AM
Nice. You will be happy with the new motor. I have a 400hp 2.5 from out front on race fuel and love it
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 09, 2018, 05:50:49 AM
Nice. You will be happy with the new motor. I have a 400hp 2.5 from out front on race fuel and love it
ya I'm sure it will make me happy for a long time.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 09, 2018, 06:16:58 AM
well good to hear...does this mean the vw bus sold? 

i thought you had decided on the turnkey 600 hp 3.0 6cyl from out front????

No bus has not sold. I sold the 2.0  out of my car.  I'm thanking you my need that 6cyl. it's to much for my bank.  :m :m










 ;) rofl



 ;D bs1  your pockets are far deeper than mine! new diesel and new rail powerplant  rofl rofl  ;) ;) :D
to be honest if Mother nature had not drop some hail stone on my race trailer. I would still be running the 2.0. God himself made this one happen. That and the insurance company. I finally got a pay back from all the years of paying them.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: budlight69 on January 09, 2018, 02:41:19 PM
Awesome, it sounds like the same motor I have, and I love it!  There be lots of new toys at the dunes this spring
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 09, 2018, 03:29:01 PM
Awesome, it sounds like the same motor I have, and I love it!  There be lots of new toys at the dunes this spring
I just was not happy with the 2.0 at the dunes. so I sold it.. it ran great. It just did not have the hp that the car had with the 2332 VW engine. I have the VW motor back together. I would like to but it back in my first baja . I'm thanking ahead to next winter. thanking 3x3. full tube frame, maybe one of dsrace front ends. time will tell. I'm still trying to sale the old bus. that will get a 091 built box for the build.
(https://s9.postimg.org/71zxlc4yj/IMG_0830.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/71zxlc4yj/)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 09, 2018, 05:07:03 PM
oh you will be with the 2.5! i was going to ask for a ride at st a in that 2332 aircooled but never got around to it. transman has a 2187 or something ...his is n\a so i wanted to feel the diff. would`ve been a good comparison from pass seat to pass seat. that baja will be a blast with that turbo aircooled for sure! if you do go 3x3 and another one of my front ends, i`ll see about 2 changes to tailor it to your specific fit.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 09, 2018, 05:10:12 PM
btw i know what it`s like to not be happy with a motor! for what ever reasons it always goes back to that. i am happy now and it just keeps getting better! lol
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on January 09, 2018, 09:38:44 PM
What turbo are you going to run?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 10, 2018, 05:53:03 AM
What turbo are you going to run?
t3/t4..
 not sure other then that. it will be a turn key motor from john built for 340hp.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 10, 2018, 05:59:17 AM
btw i know what it`s like to not be happy with a motor! for what ever reasons it always goes back to that. i am happy now and it just keeps getting better! lol
it was hard not having a strong 4 gear pull. just took the fun out of it. it would pull 4th put would not come up. I always knew I was going 2.5.  I just could not pass up the 2.0 for the price. I sold it for more then I paid for it.  and got to hold on to all the outfront parts I had put on it. 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 23, 2018, 11:46:59 AM
just a UPDATE. talked with john at outfront last week. long block is to together. or should I say was together. john put the wrong water pump on for my application. most of them shot under the car/motor. mine can not run that way. the frame is in the way. so he is changing it to the style that comes straight out back to the timing cover then up.   It's not as clean. but this why I have more ground clearance. I Don't thank this will slow him down much. I have also ask him to put the metal timing chain shields on. I'v  seen some of the guard melted on the Subaru timing covers .  I will still have the plastic one these will just be a heat shield.  I hope to hear from John this week telling me its ready to ship. last weekend, I got the frame cleaned up and repainted. good old rattle can paint. fuel had leaked onto the paint and then sand got on the soft paint made it look like sand paper. some day...... I will stop welding on it.......... and have it powder coated.  LMAO LMAO 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 23, 2018, 12:26:54 PM
i don't know a single person that can tell me there sand rail is finished!  ;) LMAO
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on January 23, 2018, 01:21:55 PM
THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A FINSHED SAND RAIL.? ????????? 2: 2: 2: 2: 2: bounce
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on January 23, 2018, 03:21:53 PM
ya know there actually is.....i've had 5 myself that were finished.  the minute they started down the road on someone else's trailer they were officially finished to me!   ;D ;) ;)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 01, 2018, 03:11:17 PM
 I'M PICKING UP THE NEW ENGINE IN THE MORNING. I'M SURE THERE WILL BE NO SLEEP TONIGHT. dd: hh: hh: hh: hh: hh: :swig: :swig: :swig: :swig: :swig: bb: bb: ii: ii: ii: ii: ii:
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 01, 2018, 06:50:17 PM
congrats! so did you take the day off too? you know to play with your new toy?! lol your going to love that power!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on February 01, 2018, 08:17:28 PM
 :swig:
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 02, 2018, 07:53:11 AM
its morning wheres the pics!!!!!! lol
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on February 02, 2018, 08:00:27 AM
I SWEAR I HEARD IT START UP.............................. ;) ;)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 02, 2018, 08:20:31 AM
i thought i did too!  ;D LMAO
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on February 02, 2018, 01:20:59 PM
Well.......
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Carlriddle on February 05, 2018, 06:10:44 AM
Prob been in shop nonstop, wide eyed on red bull! LOL
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 05, 2018, 06:48:30 AM
have You guys figured out, the only time I'm on DTS is when I'm goofing off at work. :m  put yes I have been in the shop all week end. had the engine in and out a few times. John used a newer style intake so I will have to relocate/remove one of my fans. I puller one of the studs on the adapter plate. have that fixed. I have had the vw bus for sale on eBay. that eat up some of Saturday. had to  get it ready for shipment to California next Friday.   hoping next weekend will get it back in the car and start to plum it. 
(https://s9.postimg.org/rpqhxnnbv/IMG_3718.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/rpqhxnnbv/)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on February 05, 2018, 07:08:33 AM
There always seems to be something needing changed. You'll get 'er done though!l
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 05, 2018, 07:17:26 AM
so you sold the bus? you`ll get it done and be riding wheelies at 70 mph in no time lol
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 05, 2018, 07:50:42 AM
There always seems to be something needing changed. You'll get 'er done though!l
oh ya I will get it in the car. hell or high water.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 05, 2018, 07:55:18 AM
so you sold the bus? you`ll get it done and be riding wheelies at 70 mph in no time lol
for the money it should be 4th gear at 70 on a wheelie.  :m
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 05, 2018, 10:17:11 AM
ya i can agree with that lol but 4th gear....maaaabey never know!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 05, 2018, 10:40:03 AM
ya i can agree with that lol but 4th gear....maaaabey never know!
A guy can dream.  LMAO
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 05, 2018, 01:54:08 PM
i should re phrase that ......on flat ground maaaaybe, never know. off a roller and rear engine, be careful! and for goodness sake don't do any reverse wheelies like another memeber!!!! lol
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 12, 2018, 05:56:19 AM
not much to report. Worked most of the weekend installing the new engine. just some pic.
(https://s9.postimg.org/3k7x465l7/IMG_3718.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/3k7x465l7/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/otvjf0tln/IMG_3738.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/otvjf0tln/)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Carlriddle on February 12, 2018, 06:39:39 AM
Yummm, looks purdy in there.  Glad I'm not the only one going crazy with updates to car. Drowning
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on February 12, 2018, 07:13:28 AM
Yummm, looks purdy in there.  Glad I'm not the only one going crazy with updates to car. Drowning
I'm getting real close to firing it up . I hope to hear it run next weekend. 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on February 12, 2018, 08:47:54 AM
looking good
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on February 12, 2018, 09:06:34 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 06:57:21 AM
took the new 2.5 for a short spin this weekend. runs out great on the top end. But it has a dead spot just of idle. Any thoughts????  this was the first run out, so I'm  thanking it may  just needs some drive time on it.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 07:05:49 AM
drive time.....polite break in  rofl but that flat spot if right off idle could be acell enrichment or tps itself. hard to say with out a data log . glad to hear it ran great though. so for all of us that aren't lucky enough to have a sand dune like syracuse right next door,any pics?.......how does the 2.5 compare to the 2.0?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 08:01:54 AM
I ended up just going to the river. not much run out room down there. Dam thing has been running for almost two years. night and day on power from the 2.0. I'm only running 7 psi boost for break-in but there is a big difference. I will be stepping it up to 10 psi after break-in. no pics at this time. the car pretty mush looks just like it did with the 2.0 in it.  when I mounted the ecu I did not cut out a spot in the box for the communication cable. so I thank that will be on the plans for this weekend. I sure I will have to down loads the program.   then is just plug and play to make it communicate with laptop. I hope. lol lol  tps would be the easy first step. time will tell.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 08:53:17 AM
well if you do jog over to syracuse take a video even if it's a cell cam. i would like to see what it looks like these days. haven't been there in a long time lol 9 or 10 years now and it had potential back then if they would've just killed the vegetation off!  glad the power is what you were hoping for....doubt choke cherry will be an issue  ;) ;) i will not make st a this year for sure. get the lap top communicating and data log,data lop,data log!  does that ecu using a tuning program that has autotune?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 05, 2018, 09:03:28 AM
 I hit Syracuse just after opening. Sucked balls for dunes. It had potential for some fun desert type riding that I enjoyed.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 09:10:42 AM
well if you do jog over to syracuse take a video even if it's a cell cam. i would like to see what it looks like these days. haven't been there in a long time lol 9 or 10 years now and it had potential back then if they would've just killed the vegetation off!  glad the power is what you were hoping for....doubt choke cherry will be an issue  ;) ;) i will not make st a this year for sure. get the lap top communicating and data log,data lop,data log!  does that ecu using a tuning program that has autotune?
that's the plan. log as much as I can. no auto tune on it.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 09:13:47 AM
I hit Syracuse just after opening. Sucked balls for dunes. It had potential for some fun desert type riding that I enjoyed.
it has a lot more open sand new. but still no LS. Lots of trails to ride. No one likes to get out in the ruff and cut new trails. this would help open the sand.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 10:02:45 AM
I hit Syracuse just after opening. Sucked balls for dunes. It had potential for some fun desert type riding that I enjoyed.

i was there the 2nd year it was open. very very small center body of open sand and that was it for open sand. otherwise all trails and full of sage that would cut paddles.  nothing like LS but big potential. now if they didn't want to chemically kill the grass they could bring plows in and kill it! after a few years of blowing there could be some nice dunes there and the town itself is nicer than waynoka.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 10:03:40 AM
well if you do jog over to syracuse take a video even if it's a cell cam. i would like to see what it looks like these days. haven't been there in a long time lol 9 or 10 years now and it had potential back then if they would've just killed the vegetation off!  glad the power is what you were hoping for....doubt choke cherry will be an issue  ;) ;) i will not make st a this year for sure. get the lap top communicating and data log,data lop,data log!  does that ecu using a tuning program that has autotune?
that's the plan. log as much as I can. no auto tune on it.

no auto tune well that would be nice.

so this suby engine builder in cali ...outfront? if you run a data log is he willing to make changes to the fuel map based on your run at LS? or st a? then email back for you to input?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 05, 2018, 10:17:10 AM
I hit Syracuse just after opening. Sucked balls for dunes. It had potential for some fun desert type riding that I enjoyed.

i was there the 2nd year it was open. very very small center body of open sand and that was it for open sand. otherwise all trails and full of sage that would cut paddles.  nothing like LS but big potential. now if they didn't want to chemically kill the grass they could bring plows in and kill it! after a few years of blowing there could be some nice dunes there and the town itself is nicer than waynoka.
I was told they were planning on clearing the vegetation years ago. It's still a lot smaller than LS though.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 10:29:10 AM
well if you do jog over to syracuse take a video even if it's a cell cam. i would like to see what it looks like these days. haven't been there in a long time lol 9 or 10 years now and it had potential back then if they would've just killed the vegetation off!  glad the power is what you were hoping for....doubt choke cherry will be an issue  ;) ;) i will not make st a this year for sure. get the lap top communicating and data log,data lop,data log!  does that ecu using a tuning program that has autotune?
that's the plan. log as much as I can. no auto tune on it.

no auto tune well that would be nice.

so this suby engine builder in cali ...outfront? if you run a data log is he willing to make changes to the fuel map based on your run at LS? or st a? then email back for you to input?
I have not went down that road yet. my guess is yes. I need to make the call. I see no point in calling him tell I can communicate with the ecu. 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 11:41:46 AM
dave.....completely agree!

fabr....... you were right years ago it wasn't worth the drive but it was worth experiencing it once  ;) ;D
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 11:43:50 AM
I got cut short on the last post. (work got in the way). the plan is to get communication set up for the ecu. . now that I'm thank about it. he offers serval different ecu units. I will have to call john  find out what I have and the right program to download. then run with it from there.
.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 11:45:11 AM
what is the name of the ecu you recieved? haltech? does he offer a ms3 ecu? (megasquirt)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 11:50:07 AM
what is the name of the ecu you recieved? haltech? does he offer a ms3 ecu? (megasquirt)
it is called a stinger system. his on build I believe
.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: budlight69 on March 05, 2018, 12:44:36 PM
he sells the EMS series:  http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/engine_management.htm

The only bad part is that the programs are locked and can't be tweaked by the user. 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 01:24:00 PM
that was one of the first things I ask him. john told me they are not locked. oh no here we go. lol lol lol.... I need to call him. i just have not done it yet. he even supplied me with the communication cable.  Drowning Drowning Drowning rofl rofl rofl. come to thank of it. he even told  me how I could adjust the fuel if I needed to. I will dig back into it this Friday and see what I come up with.  :nw :nw :nw
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: budlight69 on March 05, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
that was one of the first things I ask him. john told me they are not locked. oh no here we go. lol lol lol.... I need to call him. i just have not done it yet. he even supplied me with the communication cable.  Drowning Drowning Drowning rofl rofl rofl. come to thank of it. he even told  me how I could adjust the fuel if I needed to. I will dig back into it this Friday and see what I come up with.  :nw :nw :nw

Well then, I stand corrected.  That is the way I remember it back when I bought mine, but that was 7 or 8 years ago. 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
for some ...locked is a good idea  rofl rofl but for you 2 unlocked is better!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 02:27:11 PM
it is very possible yours is locked. I now it is done a lot. I will know for sure this Friday if I can or can not communicate with it. I can see why a engine builder would lock them. I'm sure it saves them a lot of headaches down the road.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 02:54:25 PM
I hit Syracuse just after opening. Sucked balls for dunes. It had potential for some fun desert type riding that I enjoyed.

well def has opened up a more than i thought compared to when i went.  not as much as LS still and syracuse is only 30 mins closer.  def worth seeing once.

https://youtu.be/JiACnYJZb-Y
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 03:09:37 PM
the video is gone but most of the pics are still there! this is when i went to syracuse.

https://dtsfab.com/index.php?topic=1729.0
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 03:13:02 PM
I will say the camping is nice. the city has done a lot of up grades to the campsites / bathhouse.  no more cargo box bathhouse!! built a new building by the road. but for 30 min. I would still go to LS. its a great fast get away for me 45. min from the house.
 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 03:15:37 PM
the video is gone but most of the pics are still there! this is when i went to syracuse.

https://dtsfab.com/index.php?topic=1729.0
oh ya a big change from back then.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 05, 2018, 03:18:06 PM
just got off the phone with outfront. I just need to download the program for emsefi.com - v4. and I'm tuning. I will see if its that easy.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 03:29:25 PM
we camped right over by the bridge . it was nice and quiet. they had a subway and a couple other fast food places in town... they had an actually car lot lol waynoka doesn't!  that trip was 9 years ago.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 05, 2018, 08:48:44 PM
the video is gone but most of the pics are still there! this is when i went to syracuse.

https://dtsfab.com/index.php?topic=1729.0
oh ya a big change from back then.
Wellllll,watched the vid. Yup ,much improved yet still sux. It's 8 hours for me. Never again unless that damn river dries back up!!!!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 05, 2018, 09:30:11 PM
oh i may make the trip again in the future maybe lol
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on March 06, 2018, 05:38:10 PM
What did John say about sending the motor out and it not running correctly? I would expect a motor that needed absolutely nothing since you ordered it turn key from him 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 06, 2018, 07:14:43 PM
I was wondering the same thing.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 07, 2018, 06:45:55 AM
 I feel the same way guys. but I live in kanas and john is in California. so my thought is. I need to have my ducks in a row before I call him. my first step is make sure I can communicate with the ecu unit. that way if needed he can remote  into  my laptop and make corrections or direct me in the right direction to make the corrections. He told me right off. I have first run on a new injector he is using and it my need tuning . it runs great other then the dead spot off idle. and ya that sucks. I have the software download to attach to the ecu. i just have not had the time to try it. it looks very similar to my two other injection system software. if it was easy woman and children would be doing it!!!!   LMAO All jokes aside. I'm sure john will make it work/right one way or another.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 07, 2018, 06:56:06 AM
he sounds like a stand up guy and i am sure he will work with you too. you are correct you need to get that lap top communicating before calling and maybe even datalog the event logging all parameters then email then call. you know what to do and i'm sure he'll get it sorted out.  no matter what it's drivable and more fun than the 2.0!  ;D
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on March 07, 2018, 06:49:26 PM
I got my motor tuned in the car at his shop. He definitely likes to upsell but knows his stuff for sure. Took my 2.5 from 300hp to 400hp with some parts and a tune
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 07, 2018, 07:02:10 PM
punkur you got a bigger turbo at the same time too didn't you?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 07, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
 bb:
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on March 07, 2018, 07:27:10 PM
punkur you got a bigger turbo at the same time too didn't you?


I made 300hp with the motor how I bought it on 91 octane. I changed the turbo from a Garrett t3 to a Turbonetics t3/t4 and bigger header and tuned to 400hp on 110 octane.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 07, 2018, 09:09:30 PM
i thought i remembered a change in the turbo and oh what a diff that extra 100 hp made!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on March 07, 2018, 09:18:02 PM
i thought i remembered a change in the turbo and oh what a diff that extra 100 hp made!


Definitely a big difference
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 08, 2018, 06:38:36 AM
I got my motor tuned in the car at his shop. He definitely likes to upsell but knows his stuff for sure. Took my 2.5 from 300hp to 400hp with some parts and a tune
I do agree with you on the up sell. I had to keep shutting him down on that.
 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 08, 2018, 06:42:33 AM
punkur you got a bigger turbo at the same time too didn't you? 


I made 300hp with the motor how I bought it on 91 octane. I changed the turbo from a Garrett t3 to a Turbonetics t3/t4 and bigger header and tuned to 400hp on 110 octane.
what turbonetics turbo did he sell you. just wondering how it compares to what I got.
(https://s9.postimg.org/5oja5rvaz/IMG_3719_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5oja5rvaz/)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Punkur67 on March 08, 2018, 05:02:21 PM
punkur you got a bigger turbo at the same time too didn't you? 


I made 300hp with the motor how I bought it on 91 octane. I changed the turbo from a Garrett t3 to a Turbonetics t3/t4 and bigger header and tuned to 400hp on 110 octane.
what turbonetics turbo did he sell you. just wondering how it compares to what I got.
(https://s9.postimg.org/5oja5rvaz/IMG_3719_1.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/5oja5rvaz/)


I will need to look when I get home. I know they called Turbonetics when I was there and they said it was sized for 400-415hp
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 08, 2018, 06:18:55 PM
the worst part of turbonetics is they dont mark or label the turbo build.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 08, 2018, 06:26:01 PM
the turbonetics i have is a to4e. stage 3 exh and 50 trim comp. doesnt say that but thats whats on the recipt. really no info online as to what that supports lol
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 12, 2018, 06:19:20 AM
just a little follow up. I could not communicate with ecu. gave outfront a call. well long story short, thy sent the wrong communicate cable. new one will be at the house Tuesday. no charge.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 12, 2018, 07:28:42 AM
thats very nice of them. mistakes do happen, it how well a company makes good on them that matters. once you connect you can data log all info\sensors and send that to john for a once over to fix the flat spot.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 26, 2018, 10:57:14 AM
Got some time on the sand car this weekend. turns out that the tps sensor is bad. Outfront is standing by it and sending a new one out. I have been working on the dead spot. with Johns help, and it is all but gone.  :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s :s
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 26, 2018, 01:14:09 PM
good to hear! i take it you got the ecu communication issue figured out.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 26, 2018, 01:43:52 PM
Ya, just had the wrong cable supplied by Outfront.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 26, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
The bad TPS was your flat spot.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 26, 2018, 03:41:45 PM
def the flat spot but upon installing the new one it would be best to calibrate the ecu for the new one if the tuning software allows it. for example if i adjust  my idle with the idle screw it throws my tps off on it's scale. not much  but enough that it can go into neg instead of 0 at idle. that's an adjustment of 200 rpm now imagine the small adjustment in the tps itself when replacing!
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 26, 2018, 07:09:51 PM
SFAIK,all tps's have to be either calibrated to a set value at idle or the ecu needs to be sync'd to it. Either way,ya can't just slap on a new TPS and be done with it. The ECU has to know the idle value or it won't know what to do.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 27, 2018, 06:19:02 AM
no, the TPS was not the flat spot. it was the accel enrichment value. I had to bump it up. then gave it some more duration time on the fuel enrichment. the car is idling high know 1200 rpm. just need to put the TPS in and Cal. it.. this should bring it back down . I like it down in the 900 to 1000 rpm range.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 09:31:37 AM
You may be right but I think you will find out differently when you replace the tps and calibrate it to the ecm. If I understand this right,you have not yet replaced the TPS? Yes ,fiddling with the accel enrichment and such can mask a faulty,glitchy or improperly calibrated TPS but when replaced ,all the changes you made before replacing the TPS will likely need to be done over.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 27, 2018, 10:35:36 AM
You may be right but I think you will find out differently when you replace the tps and calibrate it to the ecm. If I understand this right,you have not yet replaced the TPS? Yes ,fiddling with the accel enrichment and such can mask a faulty,glitchy or improperly calibrated TPS but when replaced ,all the changes you made before replacing the TPS will likely need to be done over.
Good bit of information. New TPS will be at the house Friday. calibrating and changing settings back is not a big deal if needed.  I just want it to run right.  :m The dead spot SUCKS. John has been great to work with. I'm sure we will get it right in the end. thanks Fabr
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 11:40:39 AM
With EFI there are a few things that just have to be functioning correctly or nothing works correctly . TPS and O2 sensors absolutely must be right before tuning can be done.MAF and/or MAP must be functioning correctly if used. Coolant and air temp sensors also need to be in good order.If any of the sensors are putting out corrupt data,the engine will never run right all the time if at all. Before fiddling with it any more you need to get the TPS correctly replaced.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
As a side note,there can be no air leaks in the exhaust either. Even extremely small air leaks create havoc with O2 sensors. The old saying,garbage in =garbage out really applies to EFI.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 27, 2018, 12:24:51 PM
very true! the tps is a vital part to the fueling. once you get the new one in, 0 out the tps at idle then calibrate for wot then check AE again. may not make a huge change but a change will need to be made.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 27, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
As a side note,there can be no air leaks in the exhaust either. Even extremely small air leaks create havoc with O2 sensors. The old saying,garbage in =garbage out really applies to EFI.
this would apply if it had a O2 sensor. not to talk down  Outfront. but john down right said,, A O2 probe was just going to burn up on race fuel. no need to put it on. I do not agree with this! I have ran O2 probes before with race fuel and had no problem. this is somethings else I found strange. I have the wiring for the intake air sensor but the Engine did not come with a sensor. programing seems to be set up to use it. here is my thought on this. one step at a time! get the car to run right. then start asking why.  5: 5: 5: 5: oh ya Johns response to the TPS being bad. it really does very little.?!?!  Then why put it on at all!  HA ha ha
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: budlight69 on March 27, 2018, 01:11:43 PM
"It does very little", wow, that is strange.  Dave, what software did you download to access the computer?    I looked back thru but maybe missed it.  Do you have the EMS stinger?  I need to check my TPS someday, after all of fabr and DS's comments.  Are you bringing your laptop to LS with you?   8)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 27, 2018, 01:37:17 PM
"It does very little", wow, that is strange.  Dave, what software did you download to access the computer?    I looked back thru but maybe missed it.  Do you have the EMS stinger?  I need to check my TPS someday, after all of fabr and DS's comments.  Are you bringing your laptop to LS with you?   8)
Yes it is the stinger ecu. the software is STINER V4 ECUS . V4.17.3. Looking at there sight they have three stinger software downloads. Yours may be a older version. ????  I planed on bring my laptop to the dunes.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: Enemy on March 27, 2018, 02:16:23 PM
"It does very little", wow, that is strange.  Dave, what software did you download to access the computer?    I looked back thru but maybe missed it.  Do you have the EMS stinger?  I need to check my TPS someday, after all of fabr and DS's comments.  Are you bringing your laptop to LS with you?   8)

Well, not too strange depending on the setup really..
TPS is used for determining an "engine state", for example like WOT, Flood clear, DECEL fuel cut, closed loop idle control, Launch control enable, idle timing, and accel enrichment IF it is setup to use it.
Some do accel enrichment as MAP based as I have done in the past with a screw type supercharger, instant boost needed a more defined control for accel enrichment. A combination of TPS and MAP can be used on some systems to do the job. On the most basic of builds if I don't have (or want) closed loop idle or decel fuel, the only thing the TPS is doing is flood clear. Not saying this is the rule, just that there is more than one way to skin the cat.
 
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 27, 2018, 02:49:32 PM
thanks for the info Enemy. All of it very good. I beleave your right that John is doing accel enrichment as MAP based.  that might explain his statement about the TPS not really doing much. It's been a long road trying to learn this on my own. I have not found much help in my town. This is my 3rd system and all of them have been a little  different. I have found lots of help on DTS.  Thanks to all of you.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 03:08:13 PM
As a side note,there can be no air leaks in the exhaust either. Even extremely small air leaks create havoc with O2 sensors. The old saying,garbage in =garbage out really applies to EFI.
this would apply if it had a O2 sensor. not to talk down  Outfront. but john down right said,, A O2 probe was just going to burn up on race fuel. no need to put it on. I do not agree with this! I have ran O2 probes before with race fuel and had no problem. this is somethings else I found strange. I have the wiring for the intake air sensor but the Engine did not come with a sensor. programing seems to be set up to use it. here is my thought on this. one step at a time! get the car to run right. then start asking why.  5: 5: 5: 5: oh ya Johns response to the TPS being bad. it really does very little.?!?!  Then why put it on at all!  HA ha ha
Welllll,I had a lot of respect for him until I read this. Total BS.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: budlight69 on March 27, 2018, 04:22:57 PM
fabr, I'm with you, but I'm old school tuning.  I have been reading the manual for mine today, and learning a lot.  It says you can use the TPS or MAP for load source.  It reads:

"Throttle position sensors are one of the most unreliable sensors on an engine. This is
because of their mechanical nature. They are vulnerable to water, mud, dust and
other contaminants that get inside the TPS mechanism. In order to increase reliability
EMS have made this an optional sensor
. Providing that the engine is tuned with MAP
as the main load source, if the TPS stops working the ECU will still continue to
operate. "

But I still think the computer should know what my foot wants!   :s

Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 05:41:12 PM
All I can say is uh huh ,sure. Whatever. If that's the case ,John should have informed you it was not needed/programmed. Something smells fishy.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 05:43:28 PM
Sounds like our friend ol' limp mode is what happens when the TPS shitcans. You still NEED the TPS to run right though.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 27, 2018, 09:16:27 PM
my gut reaction is BS! however i don't know turbo suby's. i guess if the tps's are known high failure issues then i could see tuning them diff but i would also think finding a better reliable one would be easier for tuning for him and the end user. i say this as fine tuning for the end use is the best way but if these are tuned in totally foreign ways that experts only understand. then not really user friendly imo .  so w/0 an 02 sensor and no real input from tps, i would then have to ask how these are tuned? how has he had you adjusting AE? everything changes with load , altitude, fuel quality etc etc
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 27, 2018, 09:31:39 PM
ya know a while back there was a tuner in omaha neb that was hired by some of the big tuner shops in LS cali. well liked and tuned rails in omaha brought to him from cali and texas etc. he was a huge advocate for haltech ecu's and tuned a couple na v8's of guys i knew. now i am not a tuner so let me be the first to admit that. that being said after viewing two of those engines i noticed the maf, iac, knock sensors and 02 sensors were removed. i asked one day how he tuned them with most of the sensors removed and just using tps, map and crank/cam sensors. his response was in a nutshell he tunes them like there carb'd engines. i didn't ask more as i was out of my element and would've just sounded like gen snowflake  rofl but i walked away thinking to myself, WTF!! all those sensors to add to fine tuning and that expensive ecu why would you do that. last i heard he has a big following in cali, has decided he really likes the megasquirt now. still why would you? how would you, tune a FI engine like it's a carb'd engine?
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 27, 2018, 09:34:06 PM
"It does very little", wow, that is strange.  Dave, what software did you download to access the computer?    I looked back thru but maybe missed it.  Do you have the EMS stinger?  I need to check my TPS someday, after all of fabr and DS's comments.  Are you bringing your laptop to LS with you?   8)

Well, not too strange depending on the setup really..
TPS is used for determining an "engine state", for example like WOT, Flood clear, DECEL fuel cut, closed loop idle control, Launch control enable, idle timing, and accel enrichment IF it is setup to use it.
Some do accel enrichment as MAP based as I have done in the past with a screw type supercharger, instant boost needed a more defined control for accel enrichment. A combination of TPS and MAP can be used on some systems to do the job. On the most basic of builds if I don't have (or want) closed loop idle or decel fuel, the only thing the TPS is doing is flood clear. Not saying this is the rule, just that there is more than one way to skin the cat.

who needs those  LMAO
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: fabr on March 27, 2018, 09:47:44 PM
Ever wonder why tuners lock the ecm's?????  ;) ;)
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 28, 2018, 07:23:35 AM
not for some time now  ;) ;) but used to
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 28, 2018, 09:39:28 AM
the only explanation i can come up with for locking the ecu is......." there tune is good until the motor blow" ........ ;)         so dave i really think you need an 02 sensor so you can monitor afr. if its going waaay lean you have an issue. fix it or blow it. i cannot believe he doesnt connect an 02. with a tinly down pipe/dump pipe it wouldnat be effective so you make have to make a longer one atleast say 18" or 22"????? anyone have a guess on min length for decent reading?  afr is a key indicator of an issue before it blows.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 28, 2018, 09:42:15 AM
i have coolant, afr, oil psi and air intake temp on my gauge and with the push of 1 button i can switch to flex sensor(e85 alcohol content), tps and ignition advance to view them while i`m driving.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on March 28, 2018, 12:56:25 PM
I thank it will be great, to add the O2 probe and intake air temp later. but one step at a time. make it run. I could be wrong, but for know!!  I'm sure the tune will work. is it right ?????? it's probably not a 100% right. I do feel good about the tune that is in it.  just based off the fact that Kim and Budlight have had Zero problems with their Outfront engines.    ;D ;D ;D I'm a stepper. one step at a time.  :m :m :m
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on March 28, 2018, 01:26:16 PM
i would tend to agree and fast had good luck with it. spun bearings don't count or burnt turbo's  ;D ;D but none the less your higher in elevation than cali and diff sand. diff wight rail and diff driver so a slight change is good but the tune if prob fine.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on July 09, 2018, 07:07:48 AM
this is the square tube chassis i was talking about that larry's offroad used to sell for baja's or fb buggies.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: big dave on July 10, 2018, 07:23:21 AM
that is right along with what I'm thanking. if all goes well I hope to start it this winter.
Title: Re: 2.5 subaru
Post by: dsrace on July 10, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
easy enough to build but even cheaper to call and buy lol not sure if they still sell it or not  but great way to start especially if one was adding an a arm front end!