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Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Controls and Electrical => Topic started by: fabr on July 28, 2015, 06:41:22 PM
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1994 Chevy Kodiak toter.Factory uses no fuses,all circuit breakers.Fine,I like that. However,I've been trying to track down an issue with the heat/AC blower motor shutting down since I bought it.
AC/heat works fantastic on low and medium but blower shuts down on high after a few minutes. Replaced blower,traced the entire wiring circuit,pulled the fricken dash all apart to do so and check for a short or anything that could be causing the issue. Did running amp checks many times .
On high it pulls approx 20 amps as it should.Circuit is protected by a 30 amp circuit breaker. Should be no issue there but I found that circuit breaker was the one causing the issue by tripping early. These are the weird ass UCB size breakers that are just slightly narrower than the standard ATO size breaker. I go to town Sunday and all I can find is the ATO size breaker. WTH, can make a couple jumpers to get it to at least work to check this crap out. Viola , the thing didn't shut down-at all. So I figure I was right and it was just a faulty breaker.
Monday ,off to the parts store to get the correct breaker. No problem,in stock. I go home,install it and the damn thing trips after only a couple minutes. OK,FINE,SOB!!!!!!!! I grab a 30 amp fuse and the thing runs without issue. For the last 3 hours anyway.
I was always of the impression a circuit breaker of 30 amp capacity should run right up to 30 +-amps before tripping. WTH?!?!?!??!!! I never dreamed the breaker itself was the issue and could only handle 20 amps even though it was a 30 amp breaker. Is this just a UCB breaker thing since the standard ATO breaker worked just fine? Or was I just unlucky enough to get a bad replacement breaker?
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I tried some super sleuth searches. What year is the mini baller rig?
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I tried some super sleuth searches. What year is the mini baller rig?
Never mind it is a 94.
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Ya,it's almost an antique. Only had 70K on it when I got it. Around 85 now. Still a good rig and didn't cost a fortune.
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Maybe it surges past 30 when it cycles on/off and ya need one of those slow blow breaker thingies? Does the picture on the diagram look even slightly different than the ones around it?
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You replaced blower motor, so that is out. There is a chaffing issue on Kodiaks but several model years away.
Is it possible that something is heating up from draw and then shorting? I have no idea what it would be, just trying to think as to what would trigger it.
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As these circuit breakers are made they make them by the thousands and with piss poor quality control (it happens even in good shops) they could have gotten the wrong guts or defective parts inside that "proper 30 amp" circuit breaker.
The replacement could EASILY be from the same batch made at the same time.
That said you could try the 'proper" circuit breaker in a test bed on a bench to see how many amps it REALLY deals with before it trips out.
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Maybe it surges past 30 when it cycles on/off and ya need one of those slow blow breaker thingies? Does the picture on the diagram look even slightly different than the ones around it?
I pulled the breaker and put a jumper in it's place and then used a clamp on amp meter on the jumper to see running amps in real time. It never pulls over 22 amps at the fuse panel.
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You replaced blower motor, so that is out. There is a chaffing issue on Kodiaks but several model years away.
Is it possible that something is heating up from draw and then shorting? I have no idea what it would be, just trying to think as to what would trigger it.
Blower motor is usually the culprit in these situations. Next is a shorting wire as you suggest. Entire dash has been taken apart to get access to the entire circuit from fuse block to blower. No damage anywhere along the circuit. We're thinking along the same lines but ,nope.
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As these circuit breakers are made they make them by the thousands and with piss poor quality control (it happens even in good shops) they could have gotten the wrong guts or defective parts inside that "proper 30 amp" circuit breaker.
The replacement could EASILY be from the same batch made at the same time.
That said you could try the 'proper" circuit breaker in a test bed on a bench to see how many amps it REALLY deals with before it trips out.
I agree. I replaced the new 30 amp breaker that trips just like the factory original with a 30 amp fuse last night and it did not blow . Going to get another breaker and see if it trips out like the other new one did. Only reason I can think of is due to a faulty new breaker. Just my luck . Think I'll rig a jumper with the breaker in it so I can measure amp draw when it trips out. That should determine if it is an under capacity(faulty) breaker or if there is a different issue . I'm thinking there is no way for the 30 amp fuse to live if there is some transient amp draw tripping the breaker yet not blowing the fuse. I mean,if the fuse doesn't blow,the circuit breaker should not either.
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Does it have a capacitor for motor?
Id try a diff brand of breaker if I could. Maybe some elec grease on terminals where breaker snaps in.
Thought it might have a low voltage draw, 11v or so, causeing amps to spike and trip it.
Or put a slow blow 30 fuse in there and call it.
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Does it have a capacitor for motor?
Id try a diff brand of breaker if I could. Maybe some elec grease on terminals where breaker snaps in.
Thought it might have a low voltage draw, 11v or so, causeing amps to spike and trip it.
Or put a slow blow 30 fuse in there and call it.
No capicitors. No alternative for the breaker. I'm stumped as to why the breaker trips but the fuse wll not blow.
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Is there another breaker in box same size you could try?
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No capacitors. No alternative for the breaker. I'm stumped as to why the breaker trips but the fuse will not blow.
This all says spike to me. The fuses are slow to react compared to a breaker. Much slower. Keep in mind we're talking milliseconds difference here..... Which is why you might not even visually see the spike on your meter?
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Problem. Solved.
No need to thank me.
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lol yummi I can actually see a few people trying that lol not off this forum but just people
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now carl has read about this as I have and saying this is the issue but maybe provoke an idea. on our 7.3 fords and my e 99 to 2003 model in particular there is a problem with the cam position sensors ( cps sensor) going out faster than many other vehicles, to the point most just carry a spare cps in the glove box. there was a ford service bulleting posted up a while back where they figured out since the windshield wiper motor shared a common ground stud with the rest of the pcm and electronics that the motors were starting to leak a small amt of voltage into the ground wire which in return went into the pcm and other electronics and that ground point is right next to thhe wiper motor. seems the reason most of the aftermarket cps sensors to last long or work at all has pretty much been traced back to this issue. fords fix is to replace the motor but most have figured out if they remote the ground wire to the otherside of the truck the problem goes away. just a thought
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I like the relocate ground idea. Would lower overall resistance? Cheap easy and worth a shot?
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Yummi, that aftermarket a/c is cool. But the aftermarket tail/brake light are pure genius! rofl
Can you feel the wires from this breaker? Hot? Kink/internal break? If I could route another wire (up one size) I'd try that along w new ground.
Either that or F it, get back to the rock work.
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There must be a reading comprehension issue today. Lol.
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Carl ,rock work sux big ones.only a few days more if it thankfully!!!!! Back on topic,ground issue is not the issue. I'm only pulling a max of 22 amps and tripping a 30 amp breaker yet not blowing a 30 amp fuse. The toter has been running for the last 4 hours with a fuse. It's cold as ice inside. Yet the breaker will trip within 2-20 minutes. I have rigged up a fuseholder and willccheck running amps in and out of breaker later today. Im thinking the new breaker was just a POS.
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There must be a reading comprehension issue today. Lol.
Mr. Grumpy Pants. Don't blame us you did not buy a Ford.
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There must be a reading comprehension issue today. Lol.
:wwp:
:wwp:
:wwp:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I dont read much
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Mr. Grumpy Pants. Don't blame us you did not buy a Ford.
LMAO LMAO LMAO don't start with that crap now!!!! rofl rofl rofl
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:wwp:
:wwp:
:wwp:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I dont read much
;D ;D ;D ;D
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This all says spike to me. The fuses are slow to react compared to a breaker. Much slower. Keep in mind we're talking milliseconds difference here..... Which is why you might not even visually see the spike on your meter?
I was thinking the same thing. Get this shiit though. I rigged up a fuse holder I could plug into the fuse block to enable me to check out amps in/out of the breaker or fuse. So far the very same breaker is holding with 22 amps thru it in/out with it in the fuse holder! Now the same breaker is holding in the fuse block itself. WTF? Letting it run now to see if it does not trip with a long run time. Could the fuse block terminals be the culprit?
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I was thinking the same thing. Get this shiit though. I rigged up a fuse holder I could plug into the fuse block to enable me to check out amps in/out of the breaker or fuse. So far the very same breaker is holding with 22 amps thru it in/out with it in the fuse holder! Now the same breaker is holding in the fuse block itself. WTF? Letting it run now to see if it does not trip with a long run time. Could the fuse block terminals be the culprit?
Sounds right.
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I was thinking the same thing. Get this shiit though. I rigged up a fuse holder I could plug into the fuse block to enable me to check out amps in/out of the breaker or fuse. So far the very same breaker is holding with 22 amps thru it in/out with it in the fuse holder! Now the same breaker is holding in the fuse block itself. WTF? Letting it run now to see if it does not trip with a long run time. Could the fuse block terminals be the culprit?
How do they look? The only thing I can think of is corrosion. Which with the right magnification (we've both got old eye-s) you should be able to see?
Just bring your jury rigged fuse on the trip and buy another breaker to run as the primary. One way or another you'll have a cool cruise. You surely don't want to drive all that way without A/C................that would just flat suck!
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x1000 on that lance !!!!
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Well,MAYBE, problem solved. I happened to look at the original breaker and noticed the 2 spade terminals were not in the same plane. One had a slight twist in it. Upon getting some good light on the socket in the breaker panel it appeared one side was a bit wider open than the other. I closed up the gap and it ran 2 times for over an hour without tripping. I'm thinking the heat of 18-22 amps with the added heat of marginal contact of one breaker leg was enough to cause it to trip. An automotive breaker is ,after all, just a heating element and a bi metal spring on a set of points. the breaker was getting very warm previously and now runs markedly cooler.
Have I mentioned yet how much I hate electrical gremlins?
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Does this mean no Ford?
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Happily,no,no Ford. ;D ;D ;D ;D