Edge ripping?

[Grimm Reaper Racing]

So fellas, I think I need to clear somethings up about Edge.  I was sent this PM this morning.

Can i ask Grim why it is that you guys rip on EDGE for such a bad design of a buggy but yet you and many others build them. If it was such a bad design why bother with it. Do you have any plans on bringing something of your own out.

Don't get me wrong i understand that there are issues with the Barracuda. And that you have had some issues with the way Tony/Edge have retaliated about some post on the forum. But you should understand that what if it was your company and how someone writing this stuff how you would feel about it. I know that you wouldn't like any bad press getting out about the work you do if there was anything wrong with it or just some thing that need work on it.

Unlike the great workshop you have access to the EDGE do it pretty rough compared. Have you seen or been to the shop. There isn't a lot to work with. Have you been in or had much to do with R&D? Not to mention juggling all this while trying to satisfy customers, family and keeping up to date with forums. Tony runs a business, has to do R&D when he can to satisfy everyone and look at future designs all by himself.

It take a lot of time to develop and test your designs. I can tell you that EDGE rely on the forum for feedback and help with there design. Look at what developed from the piranha and hypersprint. He done a bloody excellent job.

Do you also realize that EDGE is one of the biggest off road distributors in AUS. That's a pretty good call for such a small workshop that works is a space that is no more bigger than the shed i have in my backyard.

I have great respect for EDGE being that there in my own backyard and for an AUS company they make me proud that it has the aussie flag on it. If it wasn't for EDGE i wouldn't have done any of the work i do with solidworks and i am taking what i've learnt from the forum and building the cuda myself and designing my own buggy that suits me.

I can understand the frustrations you get from the trouble you have had from the forum but you should really put yourself in there shoes and ask yourself if what your doing is good or not.

     I believe this message had to do with a recent post of mine.

My suggestion, only run the 12" shocks in the rear.  There is no reason to run them up front, the a-arms fowl on the frame before the shocks bottom out.  POOR Design by the EDGE

     So lets set some things straight.  Some of you may recall this post just the other day.

     Thanks Fabr, But I can't take all of the credit.  With a-arms it's not too hard to do, especially when you have thousands of dollars worth of 3D para solid CAD software at your disposal.  After I modeled the Edge's design with Auto Desk's Inventor, I could put the a-arms through their motion to check plunge.  Tony, at the Edge, did a pretty good job of getting it close with the Edge plans.  I only altered it a tiny bit with a slightly different rear upright.

     If I have said anything that would sound remotely like ripping on the Edge, IT WAS DESERVED!  I was an active member of his forum and was kicked off because of petty bull$h!t. 

     Yes Matt, I bought the plans,  I'm glad that I did.  Tony did a pretty good job with what he had.  I'll give him props for that all day long.  The only issues I had with Tony were between him and I.  The issues with his Cuda design need to be brought up to improve on an already sweet design. 

     If I, or Doug, or Fabr, or anyone else on this forum where selling plans for a buggy, we would all be ready for the criticism to come in.  That's what makes things improve and progress.  I have just seen too many times when issues are pointed out, they don't get changed.

     Let's take for example if there is a recall on, oh, lets say a Toyota (God forbid that ever happend.)  I'm damn sure they would do a lot to make it right, and next years model would likely not have the same inherent flaw.  But Tony continues to sell his plans knowing that certain things should be fixed.  I, nor Doug, nor Fabr, nor any other reasonable human on this forum would do that without being chastised for it.

     So that is where I stand on the EDGE.  I have not been EDGE ripping, without a positive or two thrown in the mix as well.  Just because Tony and I aren't buddies, doesn't mean I can't give him some credit or some $h!t.  Hell, my best friends will tell you that if Tony was one of my best friends, I'd be giving him one hell of an ass chewing.  I'd pat him on the back too of coarse.

     Hopefully Tony has one of his minions read this, and I can only hope I'll see a response to all of this.  So Tony.... If you're out there... I don't hate you or anything about you or your business.  Your Cuda isn't perfect, but with the help of Doug and his sweet ass parts, Fabr, Spec, Yummi, Russel, Jet, Dave, DS,  and many, many, many others, hell I'll even throw Reidy in there too and he hates me, I'll try to get it as close as I can.  

   

[Simon]

Maaaate, I thought P.M's were meant to be private  . You could have got your point across without naming and shaming the author who I'm assuming was trying to get his across in confidence...........

As with the edge design, if you don't like it change it  . No need to get bitter, no need to whinge. If you think you can do it better - do it!!! That's my opinion. I see the plans as a guide, but for the most part, I think they are very good. There is a plethora of info on mods in various forums and the informed builder will do his research before starting his build. Its human nature to think your design is the best and react badly to criticism. Me, I choose to buy some things and make others. Some things break (doesn't mean I have to be happy about it though), tough titties, make it again so it doesn't.

Just my opinion of course  .

[Grimm Reaper Racing]

Maaaate, I thought P.M's were meant to be private  . You could have got your point across without naming and shaming the author who I'm assuming was trying to get his across in confidence...........

As with the edge design, if you don't like it change it  . No need to get bitter, no need to whinge. If you think you can do it better - do it!!! That's my opinion. I see the plans as a guide. There is a plethora of info on mods in various forums and the informed builder will do his research before starting his build. Its human nature to think your design is the best and react badly to criticism. Me, I choose to buy some things and make others. Some things break (doesn't mean I have to be happy about it though), tough titties, make it again so it doesn't.

Just my opinion of course  .

     I agree...

     I'm not bitter toward Tony, I thought I made that clear.  It's more like I'm indifferent towards him.  I don't care one way or the other.  Tony has made that clear that he has had his issues with me, that would be why I no longer use his forum.  (I was banned)

     This is not me whining about anything, just telling it like it is.

     So let me reiterate what I said before... I am NOT ripping on Tony or the Edge, just pointing out the few mistakes in the plans, and giving him credit for what I believe to be is the best looking mini buggy design out there.  IMO of course.

[SPEC]

Let's not let this turn into a shitfest,
Doug has been criticized openly for the mods he has made to Tony's plans...
He takes the heat and keeps on going,
Tony has a pretty good set of plans, and is a vendor here on DTS  I'm happy Tony and Doug are here
There are some short comings...As there are with ALL plans...
In my humble opinion

The EDGE BUILD section here is very active, and that's a good thing,
With that being said
If this even starts to smell like a shitfest to I will lock it

[Grimm Reaper Racing]

Thank you Spec,

     Not trying to make anything smelly, just want people to know it wouldn't matter who's design it was, if I thought something was wrong with it, I would bring it up and point it out.

     I, like many others don't just point out the negative unless I have what I believe to be is a better way of doing it.

     I'm sure you understand.  I just don't want people to think I don't like the guy or his design. 

     If that were the case, I wouldn't have a Cuda build on this forum.

[Doug Heim]

Id give you my 10 cents but my 2 cents is free, so here is my 2 cents...

I too have always loved the looks of the Edge Buggies although since the Cuda has come out, It takes the cake and the Piranha in my is now ugly. Edge plans are a great guide and the plans are well laid out. Wether it needs chainging is to be decided on the builder / owner as most people are working out of their garage and have limited access to cad and high performance tooling and just want to "get by". for the more serious driver and someone that prefers to alter a few things, in my case drasticaly, Others see this and want the same quality. Since it is not covered orchanged in he plans, they ask me if I can do the same for them where they dont have the access and obviously I should do it for free because I run a charity, right?

Bottom line is there are mistkes in the plans and I pointed out directly to Tony simple typos or tolerance mistakes and he never updated them. Thats what really sucks as the average weekender may not catch the mistakes. Honest mistakes too, Im not talking about what works better. Im talkin about mistakes on how things fit togethr that hinder the build.

When I release plans Im positive there will be mistakes but I will up date them and supply updated pages as rorty does with his plans. Thats the true difference!

Anyway I could go on and on but quite honestly I dont need to explain myself. I sleep good at night!

[Nutz4sand]

 Its human nature to think your design is the best and react badly to criticism.

Just my opinion of course  .

I will argue thats its not human nature. Its POOR human nature. It might be ok for a person who is doingthis privately out of the back oftheir garage for themselves. But not for a buisness open to the world.

If someone does not like the LOOKS of my design I could care less. In fact I might like it. Do I like when people LIKE the things I make? Yup. But if they do not like it then tough. Water off a ducks back to me. I LIKE things that are different. But they still have to be right!




But as mentioned in Dougs thread above.

If there are plain simple errors that the person will not acknowledge? Thats not even poor human nature either. Thats wrong. No reason not to fix or offer an update.

If I paid $150.00 for plans to find out parts did not fit when made to the plans I would be more than cheesed off.

I have bought several plans (Including the Phiranas. Have not owned a set of Barracuda plans yet) JUST so I could see how the different builders layed them out in the blueprints. So as I draw my own I use them to teach me how to lay it out a lil better perhaps (but I use MY measurements) I have sat in several machines and mine needs to be a lil bigger to fit me comfy anyways.

The main reason is there may be a little influence of one buggy or another but it will be MY design and I have to answer to ME for errors.

But if I designed a buggy then built one (The way it should be done to prove he design) and found errors the plans would be altered then and there to show it done right.

I do not see any other way being acceptable. Especially on plans a person plans to sell. They should build two or three or four and have others build a couple for feedback before the plans are let loose to the world!   

Then the mistakes could be more easily corrected and MUCH less if any. 

Thats what I think.   
 

[fabr]

 I agree with what Doug said. My question was and still is though,why does he not change the typos and such when it would be so easy? I just don't get that.

[Simon]

If there are plain simple errors that the person will not acknowledge? Thats not even poor human nature either. Thats wrong. No reason not to fix or offer an update.

I wasn't really refering to errors when I made the comments about about human nature and critism. Errors probably should be fixed, thats one of the reasons they have drawing revisions. The comment was aimed at things that are functional and do work, but others do not consider it to be "right" and tell the designer so (usually with good intentions, but sometimes with poor delivery  :-\).

Some people take (constructive) critism well and learn from it, others can get a bit cranky as they protect the thing they have probably spent the last 12 hours making. I'm sure if I spent 10 minutes looking through some old post on this forum, I could find plenty of examples of both. The Barracuda is The Edges design and they have the right to market it (critical error free hopefully) as they please, but the builder has the right to change the design to suit themselves with credit given to the edge for providing a lot of the groundwork.

[SPEC]

I've been going to do the 460's in plans and kit form for the last few years...But haven't been healthy enough to give them the thrashing they deserve before I'd let them out in public...
I say this because all points so far have been really good ones...

[Reidy02]

Your Cuda isn't perfect, but with the help of Doug and his sweet ass parts, Fabr, Spec, Yummi, Russel, Jet, Dave, DS,  and many, many, many others, hell I'll even throw Reidy in there too and he hates me, I'll try to get it as close as I can.  

 

Adam I have never said I hate you! Hell I've never even meet you! I do know that what I had ordered from you was not what I got! Weather it was a misscommunication or what Idon't know, to your credit you fixed it all up and I thanked you for it! I think Simon hit the nail on the head when he said that when you spend soooo much time designing something and building it to have someone tell in a certain way, that you may not really appreciate you may well get pissed off to say the least, you tend to get a bit protective of ya baby!! Hey?? Hey I don't know you may well be a nice guy in real life instead of a little smart arse!!! As you tend to come off on the site....

[Yummi]

Hell I've never even meet you!

Not required.  I hate Mr. Obama and Ms. Pelosi and I have not met them.  Just saying....

[Reidy02]

TRUE Yummi too true!!

[Grimm Reaper Racing]

Adam I have never said I hate you! Hell I've never even meet you! I do know that what I had ordered from you was not what I got! Weather it was a misscommunication or what Idon't know, to your credit you fixed it all up and I thanked you for it! I think Simon hit the nail on the head when he said that when you spend soooo much time designing something and building it to have someone tell in a certain way, that you may not really appreciate you may well get pissed off to say the least, you tend to get a bit protective of ya baby!! Hey?? Hey I don't know you may well be a nice guy in real life instead of a little smart arse!!! As you tend to come off on the site....

 

It's true, I am a smart ass...

Better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass though.

I was kidding about the you hate me part Reidy.  If you really knew me, you would know just how sarcastic I really am.

[Doug Heim]

Reidy will know me in person soon. Sounds like Im getting a visit from him today!  Im looking forward to it!