Author Topic: Turbo waste gate issue?  (Read 8195 times)

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plkracer

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2008, 09:15:04 PM »
Is that tuned for 10lbs exhaust pressure or 10 lbs intake? or are they equal?

Offline fabr

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2008, 09:24:33 PM »
Ya don't tune for ex pressure.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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plkracer

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2008, 09:41:35 PM »
I know, but different turbos will create different intake pressures (and volumes) depeding on the exhaust flowing through them.

Offline Yummi

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2008, 05:25:19 AM »
10 intake.
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Offline fabr

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 05:57:16 AM »
I know, but different turbos will create different intake pressures (and volumes) depeding on the exhaust flowing through them.
True but that has nothing to do with tuning.You do need to match the turbo map to the engine though. Sort of like a cam change.Bigger turbo (think BIG cam) makes more HP in higher rpm range and a smaller turbo(think RV cam) makes more power at lower engine speeds. An over simplification but a good generalization. 
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Yummi

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2008, 06:05:22 AM »
See, the simplistic approach works for me.  Thanks for the info Master - makes sense now how to think of turbo size. 

For me - Outfront did the set up.  The ecu is a "stinger" from them, and they recently re-flashed it for an unrelated matter.   So, they say stick with 10# - assume it is stock 2.0, with "stinger" and away we go.  My guess is that this flows more air than the stock 2.0 turbo.   

Sometimes it really is easier to let other folks worry about that.   I hope to be meeting up with one of the guys over T-day weekend at the dunes - sales call for him, chance for me to pick an experts mind on "next steps."   Win win. 
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I like things that move.   Pretty much limits me to cars and strippers

Did you know I have a blog?  Come on now, it is 2016, everybody does.  http://www.jeepingwithdogs.com

Offline fabr

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2008, 06:11:50 AM »
Business deduction weekend-YEAH!!!
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

trojan

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2008, 08:36:54 AM »
See, the simplistic approach works for me.  Thanks for the info Master - makes sense now how to think of turbo size. 

For me - Outfront did the set up.  The ecu is a "stinger" from them, and they recently re-flashed it for an unrelated matter.

I'm not being narky because you ignored my advice, rather that I fear you are being given advice from someone who has a ve$ted intere$t in what you are doing. Are they the same people who originally "tuned" it with the spring in place of the actuator? What was the "unrelated matter"?

I have some IHI Laboratory documentation (volumes) complete with hand written comments and POLAROIDS! Those guys know their turbo's! I have this opinion because I've seen the way they TEST their ideas.

Welding up a functioning wastegate which was designed to work with the turbo (albeit with a NON-bling actuator) and replacing it with a "billet" generic one is not simplistic to me ;)

Hang on... is it a WRX motor??? which model?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 08:44:39 AM by trojan »

Offline Yummi

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2008, 02:34:14 PM »
Fair question Trojan; I don't think that is a snarky question in the least. 

That is exactly what a board like this is for - learn from each other and help each other out.  I have no doubt that the IHI guys know their stuff. 

Here's the deal, nope, they are not the same folks who tuned / built the motor.  Had they been, I would not have this issue.  I bougt the car used, so I get to clean the other guy's mistakes.  The car had a VW, then he installed a JDM - My guess - he boned it up.

As to the bling - I am not a general fan of the bling.  Having said that it was my call for a couple of reasons; first, I have no idea how long the current turbo will last, this gives me options should it ever need, or should I elect to change it for a higher volume design.  My guess is, no matter how hard you try to keep em running, sand and turbos don't mix very well.  Also, it allows some relatively easy tuning of pressure in the event I want to change injectors, etc.  Lots of bikes / toys in my past have had "just one more upgrade" till I was "happy," so this allows pressure changes even with the current turbo.  Finally, for a buggy motor, and for my driving style, I am sold on the Subaru, it would only be a question of time before I had a bigger or better one.  So, I elected to spend more now, and not have to worry too much later.  This way I can scavage parts from the current motor a bit easier. 

As to the guy selling giving me bad  or bogu$$$$  advice?  Well, that is always a concern.   

I will say this.  The guys at OutFront have spent well over two hours on the phone with me - no charge - to fix my car / diagnose it over the phone.  They have also fixed stuff at a very reduced rate that was not their due simply because it had their name on it.  They have sold me some parts at a lower cost, and quicker than I could get locally.   In fact OutFront will tell you ways to save money using oem parts if the application is correct for that.

The charges for this were a fair value in my mind.  If you want, I will post a copy of the invoice and the board can tell me how much cheaper it could be done.  Frankly I want them to stay in business cause I think they shoot me straight and they know the Subaru.  I might have saved a little bit going elsewhere, but in the end the $50.00 is not worth me saying - "Dang - they went out of business?"   

As a frame of reference, the majority of the charges were parts - and the price was within my cost on-line, and they charged me a total of 1 hour labor for all the work, welding, etc.   Like I say, I would be happy to  post a copy of the invoice. 

Every now and again, we get to run into folks in this game who are just plain and simple straight shooters.  In short, I am sold on OutFront

Hope that helps explain the thought process, and thanks again for watching out for my backside.  ;D
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 02:48:29 PM by yummi »
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I like things that move.   Pretty much limits me to cars and strippers

Did you know I have a blog?  Come on now, it is 2016, everybody does.  http://www.jeepingwithdogs.com

Offline Yummi

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2008, 11:41:21 AM »
I need to install a pick up for the waste gate pressure line via banjo fitting - I have options - right at blower housing or after inter-cooler before throttle body plate.   I have heard that pressure drops after an inter-cooler, so where would it be best to pick up the pick up line at - before or after inter-cooler? 
**********************
I like things that move.   Pretty much limits me to cars and strippers

Did you know I have a blog?  Come on now, it is 2016, everybody does.  http://www.jeepingwithdogs.com

Offline fabr

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2008, 12:55:38 PM »
At the throttle body
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Yummi

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2008, 01:21:34 PM »
OK, So after the inter-cooler it is - now it gets more tricky (for me anyway.)  The plumbing from the inter-cooler to the throttle body appears to be essentially exhaust tubing, (Pretty thin stuff) so I was thinking drill into it, install a bushing for more meat and away I go.   Bushing is "black pipe"  can  this be welded or brazed or what is the suggestion on this?

Picture are worth a thousand, so here you go.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 01:23:30 PM by yummi »
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I like things that move.   Pretty much limits me to cars and strippers

Did you know I have a blog?  Come on now, it is 2016, everybody does.  http://www.jeepingwithdogs.com

Admin

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2008, 01:38:38 PM »
black pipe welds fine, just clean it up first....

Offline fabr

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2008, 01:40:05 PM »
Brazing would be fine. If you are good at brazing and unsure about welding it.
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

trojan

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Re: Turbo waste gate issue?
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2008, 07:48:45 PM »
Cheers, that filled in most of my "assumption" gaps.
They sound in principal, just like my guys. ;)

It does sound like you have a good tuner. An ECU is an ECU (in general) and in practice are only as good as the tuner. For example, a tuner who is totally familiar with any ECU will do a better tuning job with that ECU than say another guy who wants to use a Motec but never has before.

I have a street WRX ('98) and am very familiar with them. 10 psi is well below std boost. Std boost figures, depending on which year it is, range from 16-21 psi. At 10 you'll only just begin to hit the real power curve. My rexie has a boost controller. When I turn it OFF it only delivers 7 psi. IF you turn it off at the bottom of a steep hill and then half way up flick it back on, the car doesn't break loose but gets VERY squirrely! the power/torque difference is remarkable.

If you're worried about longevity - DON'T BE! my streeter has 260,000 km on it with the original turbo still fitted. it has been modded & tuned at "Wild but not too excessive" for 3 years now and I drive it like my buggy.
I really don't see the point of owning a car like that and driving Miss Daisy around in it  ::)

My recommendation for the most cost effective ECU for the WRX is the Apexi PowerFC, less than AU$1k.

You wont need t change injectors until ~23 psi or higher or ~300+ hp (at the wheels).

I asked what year it was because that tells me how much boost it's originally built for.

What grade (RON) fuel are you using?
I expect with US fuel and 10 psi you are only seeing < 120 hp at the wheels?
I run mine on 98 RON and at 18 psi, I get 200 hp at the wheels (similar climate to Florida).

Does the "Stinger" have: knock control? boost control? Auto-tune? Closed loop?

SAND... You might want to try a Centrifugal type pre-filter and double socked filter after that. Try to stay away from oiled types as they can play havoc with your AFM if oiled even slightly too much. Personally K&N aren't good enough for the street, let alone sand. Another thing to remember, get a filter that's big enough to still flow what the engine needs when the filter is half clogged.

 

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