DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)

Machinery, Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Topic started by: fastcorvairs on August 15, 2015, 09:07:02 PM

Title: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 15, 2015, 09:07:02 PM
Ok here's the deal. drowning

6500 onan no start.  Will turn over but no start.  pulled the plugs and they are dry but getting lots of fuel at the small filter just in front of the carb.  Before I dole into it with the jumper wires like the instruction say what say the masses.  Is there a safety that will not let fuel into the cyl's if there is no spark at the plugs?  Pump has plenty of pressure and I just had it running about three weeks ago.  Checked the oil and it is full.  Put Staybal in the fuel tank right after getting back from Yuma last February. 
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 15, 2015, 09:26:55 PM
if it's the one with the control board that lights up and flashes when it has issues like the old obd I computers then there is an electronic fuel shut off valve with a 2 wire connector that could be your problem. with the cover off you should be able to see it try unplugging it and try and start it.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 12:31:10 AM
Is there fuel in the float bowl? If not it is likely the fuel shutoff solenoid.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 16, 2015, 05:47:24 AM
if it's the one with the control board that lights up and flashes when it has issues like the old obd I computers then there is an electronic fuel shut off valve with a 2 wire connector that could be your problem. with the cover off you should be able to see it try unplugging it and try and start it.



Don't think It is that kind.  It is older then that.  Remember my trailer is ancient, 1993 WW.  I think the gen was a upgrade from the factory though.   

Is there fuel in the float bowl? If not it is likely the fuel shutoff solenoid.

I'll check this morning if there is actually fuel in the bowl.  I did squirt fuel into the carb while cranking and that did not do any good.  although the plugs still looked dry after I had done that?
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: D Walker on August 16, 2015, 06:23:11 AM
Will it run on startling fluid? If it does, that should show it's a fuel issue.


The mechanics at my Cummins engine shop love how much money they make fixing these. The yard has as many RVs and trailers in it as in does Semi trucks.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: Lance-W on August 16, 2015, 07:00:39 AM
spark?  There's an oil pressure cut off for the spark...  by pass it.

These folks are fantastic.  They will help you troubleshoot it.  Call'em!   http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/generator-parts-onan-c-14_104.html (http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/generator-parts-onan-c-14_104.html)
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 16, 2015, 07:01:27 AM
Will it run on startling fluid? If it does, that should show it's a fuel issue.


The mechanics at my Cummins engine shop love how much money they make fixing these. The yard has as many RVs and trailers in it as in does Semi trucks.

Haven't used any starting fluid yet.  Kind of a last resort for me,  Don't want to be blowing the head off anything right now.  That is encluding me.  :o
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: D Walker on August 16, 2015, 07:05:04 AM
From the other thread, it looks like you have spark. Something is stopping the fuel? Low oil switch, clogged carb?

Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 16, 2015, 07:12:56 AM
take a pic of the carb and the start switch on the genny itself and post it. it's really nothing more than a lawn mower engine and i have worked on two of the newer one with control boards and they are the same just with electronics that make the mechanics more money lol  those gennies have a lot of issues on the forums

the older on might have a vacuum diaphragm hooked to the carb with an arm that may control fuel delivery but if you have sprayed carb cleaner down the carb as you said then prob not the fuel more like what lance said the low oil switch. if i am correct the motor has to spin over at a certain rpm before that vacuum diaphragm opens the fuel bowl but don't know for sure.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 08:18:46 AM
after putting Sta-bil in the fuel tank ,did you run it long enough to get it to the carb bowl?
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 16, 2015, 12:13:22 PM
don't know about yours fast but the one i recently worked on was easy to get the carb off
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 12:20:27 PM
All onans are easy carb removal that I have worked on including the fooking one in the toter I had off this morning. Went on a checkout drive last night and the damn thing kept dying. Pulled the plugs,looked fine but replaced anyway. Pulled the non-rebuildable carb off. Tore it down but there's not much to do with them..Sprayed the crap out of the passages ,blew all out,reassembled. Running like a top for 2 hours now. Hope it's fixed.  First time I've had any trouble from it but it is 21 years old and has a lot of hours on it. Think I'll upgrade to a newer,fully enclosed onan on return from trip.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 16, 2015, 12:48:46 PM
don't know about yours fast but the one i recently worked on was easy to get the carb off

Bull hockey on easy LMAO. looks like the unit has to come out to get the carb off.  Did some checking this morning. found the instructions online and they gave me some pointers.  first was like Lance said check the low oil or oil pressure switch.  It checked out ok and Faber I do have fuel in the bowl there is not a fuel shut off valve on this engine.  No magneto kill ether.   Still no spark to the plugs.   Instructions detailed to put 12V to the ignition coil and turn the motor over to see if it would get spark. Nope still no spark to the grounded plug.  Leaning towards the coil being bad now.  Pulled it off and in looking on line for the coil found out this Onan is a 1992 that was use quite a bit in the John Deer 318 and 420 lawn tractors.  The only factory coil I have found so far is a used one.  Onan number is 166-0761 by and outfit in Japan called Denso.  Found one on E-bay but it is one that is a replacement.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 01:22:02 PM
Your carb isn't right in front when looking at it? All I have seen are. Is your genny buried with no front area access?
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 01:25:40 PM
No matter though since it does sound like a dead coil.

 Have you checked it for continuity between the +/- terminals? There should be. If so,how many ohms?

  If the case is metallic is there continuity from either +/- terminal to the coil case ? There should not be.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 01:28:35 PM
Mine's still running now for 3.5 hours. Knock wood it is good to go.

NOW,my 2 year old water pump is saying NOPE!,not gonna run. If it's not one thing it's another.

Hope you get your genny issue sorted out ,Fast.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 16, 2015, 01:31:39 PM
http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=95 (http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=95)
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 16, 2015, 01:32:28 PM
looks like there are replacements but you have to buy the mount/retrofit kits

http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=94 (http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=94) possibly this one?
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: Yummi on August 16, 2015, 01:39:55 PM
looks like there are replacements but you have to buy the mount/retrofit kits

http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=94 (http://onanparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=94) possibly this one?

Did you notice this? 

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fonanparts.com%2Fonan_fishing.png&hash=03b5e05795aff2276d6b6029947b1290762310cd)
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: Lance-W on August 16, 2015, 01:40:08 PM
This is the place............fast shipping, great people.

http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/onan-ignition-tuneup-parts-c-14_104_112.html?page=2&sort=20a (http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/onan-ignition-tuneup-parts-c-14_104_112.html?page=2&sort=20a)

http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/generator-parts-onan-c-14_104.html (http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/generator-parts-onan-c-14_104.html)
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: Lance-W on August 16, 2015, 03:06:21 PM
WOW  :o  for a coil !

http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/5410552-ignition-coil-onan-p-256.html (http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/5410552-ignition-coil-onan-p-256.html)
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 03:17:06 PM
but it has onan on it.........................
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 16, 2015, 04:29:26 PM
Did you notice this? 

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fonanparts.com%2Fonan_fishing.png&hash=03b5e05795aff2276d6b6029947b1290762310cd)

ya but they aren't the only one that sells them
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 05:22:46 PM
I think a message like that appears a lot of the time for them. Same message,different date ,I've seen at least 3 different times. Must be nice to be that independent.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 16, 2015, 06:57:41 PM
3.5 oms across the + and- terminals.  got a plastic case so can't tell if it is grounded.  Going to try our local Onan dealer tomorrow and the John Deer dealer ship.  Only other thing I can think of is if there is a bad brush or something like that that is keeping it from starting.  But if the board is allowing voltage to the coil under start cycle I would think it would start if the coil was good. 
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 08:12:15 PM
You have zero spark-correct?


When engine is cranking do you have approx 12V at the positive terminal of the coil?  Disconnect positive coil lead. Check it with a test light (not a voltmeter)between + coil lead to ground.. It should turn on and off as engine is cranking.Does it? If so ,that indicates the coil should fire the plugs. If it fails to light the test light or just stays lit ,the coil is likely good and there is a different issue causing this.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 16, 2015, 08:16:10 PM
3.5 oms across the + and- terminals.  got a plastic case so can't tell if it is grounded.  Going to try our local Onan dealer tomorrow and the John Deer dealer ship.  Only other thing I can think of is if there is a bad brush or something like that that is keeping it from starting.  But if the board is allowing voltage to the coil under start cycle I would think it would start if the coil was good.
The coil itself is likely good then.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 17, 2015, 05:46:11 PM
Ok nothing wrong with the coil. Bought a new one and put it on and same old same-O, no sparky.  But think I have found the problem.  I took some of the sheet metal off to blow and clean everything out and found a L-Fod.   Don't like finding L-Fod.  Here it is.  Pictures are worth a thousand word's.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 17, 2015, 05:50:42 PM
Genny wont get fixed until we get back from Idaho.  Onan and Cummings say that part has been on back order for two months. Called some place's on the intertwd and same old story.  No can get.  Looks like it's time for some back engnneering and some machine work.  Two small magnets and some phonic and I'll be golden.   ;D
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: dsrace on August 17, 2015, 06:12:45 PM
yep that would do it so build another part better than stock!
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: D Walker on August 17, 2015, 06:27:08 PM
I know a guy with a shop that could probably build that part for you. Pretty close to you too but I don't talk to him much lately.

Let me know if you need his number.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 17, 2015, 07:08:42 PM
His initials wouldn't be GZ would they DW?  ;D ;D Well,hope you get it made Fast. Gonna suck on the road without it. I assume you could get a quiet,not too expensive Honda or something to get you by?
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 17, 2015, 07:54:28 PM
His initials wouldn't be GZ would they DW?  ;D ;D Well,hope you get it made Fast. Gonna suck on the road without it. I assume you could get a quiet,not too expensive Honda or something to get you by?

Ya going to suck with out it when on the road.  But that will be just a couple of days coming and going.  Already got the old purkulator coffee maker out. cold cereal and hot coffee. Propane still burns good. 
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 17, 2015, 07:57:45 PM
I know a guy with a shop that could probably build that part for you. Pretty close to you too but I don't talk to him much lately.

Let me know if you need his number.

Ya you need to fix that, The talking thing. Miss your shenanigans bro.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 17, 2015, 08:05:07 PM
Ya going to suck with out it when on the road.  But that will be just a couple of days coming and going.  Already got the old purkulator coffee maker out. cold cereal and hot coffee. Propane still burns good.
I gotta have the TV going. I'd have to take a small genny if just for that!!
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: sandvw on August 17, 2015, 09:54:00 PM
Fast, there should be a RV bone yard you could get one from. 
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 18, 2015, 05:11:03 AM
Fast, there should be a RV bone yard you could get one from.

No RV bone yards here in the mid west Dan.  Only in Yuma.   drowning
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: Carlriddle on August 18, 2015, 05:21:23 AM
That motor was used on lots of truck mounted welders too.  Might try welding place.  Maybe they got one laying around.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: Carlriddle on August 18, 2015, 05:24:41 AM
looks to be replaced with 166-0842 ?? ??
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 18, 2015, 05:57:37 AM
No RV bone yards here in the mid west Dan.  Only in Yuma.   drowning
There is a large one in Carthage Missouri. Colaw RV Salvage. Probably covers 20 acres with hundreds of salvage rv's they pull parts from all day long. 

10389 Cimmaron Road, Carthage, MO 64836
(417) 548-2125


Might be worth a try. I have used them quite a bit over the years.
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 18, 2015, 11:01:09 AM
There is a large one in Carthage Missouri. Colaw RV Salvage. Probably covers 20 acres with hundreds of salvage rv's they pull parts from all day long. 

10389 Cimmaron Road, Carthage, MO 64836
(417) 548-2125


Might be worth a try. I have used them quite a bit over the years.

I'll give them a call,
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fastcorvairs on August 18, 2015, 11:08:10 AM
I'll give them a call,

Well called and talked to the parts guy. They don't part out the generators but have two that have less then 100 hours on them for $1600.00 each.  I am waiting for them to email me some pictures. 
Title: Re: Genny won't start
Post by: fabr on August 18, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
I have bought 3 from them. All were good units. The marquis gold 5200 on the red trailer was like new. I've seen a lot of them on their floor,some were pretty rough looking,others very nice.  Hopefully ,they will have what you need.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal