king vs fox vs ???

[fabr]

It was caused by the shock going farther out then it should have. With the shock apart interally it was going past the factory shock stop and hitting the limiting strap.

I still don't understand.

[Nutz4sand]

I am cornfuzed here as well. A limiting strap should keep a shock from going to far.

If the shock went farther than it should have the strap failed or was wrong for the app or mounted wrong.

[BDKW1]

I'm with the other guys, the strap should not have stretched that far. I have had to use 3 of the quad straps on the front of a TT to keep them alive due to weight an leverage. If the straps are set-up correctly they shouldn't stretch that much. If your getting more than about 1/2" of stretch, you need to step it up a little. I know beard claims they will stretch 1/2" per foot, but from My experience pulling on them that hard causes failures.
 
Also, even if the back stop washer bends it's thickness and the pre-load on the shim pack and nut shouldn't changed. I would have to say something was not assembled correctly. I have had a strap fail and eventually the shaft ripped the seal head out of the shock, but never had a nut come loose.

[BDKW1]

I am with you on the solid top out spacer though. This is how I set My shocks you as a last ditch survival stop.
 

 
A lot of the older shocks used to come this way before limit straps were common. I think the cost of the extra parts made them disapear......

[fabr]

I am with you on the solid top out spacer though. This is how I set My shocks you as a last ditch survival stop.
 

 
A lot of the older shocks used to come this way before limit straps were common. I think the cost of the extra parts made them disapear......

I bet you you're right. Th e cost of all those shims compared to the selling price of the shocks would have bankrupted them....................................... . IMO ,it's just another sign of the industry selling crap at HIGH prices and then putting a FEW more bux in their pockets by cutting corners at OUR expense.

[Nutz4sand]

Is it they do it to cut corners??? Or do they offer this as an option now?

Still its to line thier pockets with more loot (for the "option"). Can't really blame them.... But we will! 

[fabr]

yup.

[fabr]

As a thought maybe it's because 90% of the people out there don't drive their cars hard enough to need any cushion  since their cars never see full droop. Maybe that's why so many things are crap in the market also since the vast majority of people don't know any better and are happy with just the look of the fancy parts.

[trans man]

I still don't understand.

With the hold down nut not on the shaft, that caused the valving stacks and piston to just flop around in side. Those parts weren't doing what they were to do. So with 415 PSI push in shaft out and the oil not doing any dampening, it pounded against the limiting strap. Does that make sense to you guys now.

[trans man]

 
Also, even if the back stop washer bends it's thickness and the pre-load on the shim pack and nut shouldn't changed. I would have to say something was not assembled correctly. I have had a strap fail and eventually the shaft ripped the seal head out of the shock, but never had a nut come loose.

The shocks came directly from King that way. I never seen the inside of my air shock until it flew apart after only 30 hrs. of ride time. King used a nonlocking nut! Brett a King told me that this wasn't first time this has happened. That's why they did a full warranty claim.

[Nutz4sand]

With the hold down nut not on the shaft, that caused the valving stacks and piston to just flop around in side. Those parts weren't doing what they were to do. So with 415 PSI push in shaft out and the oil not doing any dampening, it pounded against the limiting strap. Does that make sense to you guys now.

Ok so if this happened the limiting strap still SHOULD have held its length reasonable enough. The 415 PSI was only acting on the end of the shaft in a pushing manner to since its a small surface area theres force there but not major amounts. Only the spring that holds the car up was pushing out on the strap. Be it likely repeatedly and fiercely.

I dunno. Still seems like the strap was defective??

I still do not see how the strap (If correct) let it hammer the piston enough (as you said it did ) to damage the washer and let the nut loose!

Even if the nut simply fell off inside the shock the strap should have held the suspension together it seems so that the shock never over exended.  Weird. Seems you would have felt it hitting REAL hard on that corner with no more shock action. Even a couple few hits would have made it ride/handle funny.

A strap should be able to take that in stride if its A-OK.  I would think so anyways.

[trans man]

Ok so if this happened the limiting strap still SHOULD have held its length reasonable enough. The 415 PSI was only acting on the end of the shaft in a pushing manner to since its a small surface area theres force there but not major amounts. Only the spring that holds the car up was pushing out on the strap. Be it likely repeatedly and fiercely.

I dunno. Still seems like the strap was defective??

I still do not see how the strap (If correct) let it hammer the piston enough (as you said it did ) to damage the washer and let the nut loose!

Even if the nut simply fell off inside the shock the strap should have held the suspension together it seems so that the shock never over exended.  Weird. Seems you would have felt it hitting REAL hard on that corner with no more shock action. Even a couple few hits would have made it ride/handle funny.

A strap should be able to take that in stride if its A-OK.  I would think so anyways.

I heard 3 hard hits against the limiting strap, just before it blew apart and before I could get my car shut down.

[dsrace]

ok guys what happened was when we assembled trans mans front end and took it for it's first test ride which was polite! we did not have limiting straps installed! I didn't think it would hurt them since I have done this with fox shocks and never had issues ever! but over the course of say 30 hrs (with limiting straps ) the damage had already been done according to king and the nut did unscrew itself.  now the limiting strap was the nut and of course the shock came apart in a way that I have never seen! in fact I couldn't believe the strap stretched that far myself had I not seen with with my own two and it shrank back some shortly there after. when his shock came apart he was going over a dune and he heard a pop then at the bottom of the dune well lets just say the ride was over! when doug and I found are way back I had to push on one side of the shock while trans man pulled on the other side to get the shaft to line back up with the body to collapse! so in other words the shaft came out so far you could actually seed the leading edge and the shock leaned over up against the a-arm in the same direction as the strap since the strap was actually bolt to the shock from one mount to the other. I pre-fer mounting my straps this way if possible. since the body is usually 2" longer than the shaft not only did the shaft eject past it's normal stopping point it pushed past the extra 2"s of body as well!! so now take into account a strap that is 1" shorter than the  extended length of the shock bolted to the shock from eyelet to eyelet being stretched open an extra 3" from what I just stated!     

does that make more sense?  trans mans front end probably weighs a couple hundred pounds and he has no front brakes so minimal unsprung weight,  bad strap possible but I doubt it, yes they mckenzies told me 1/2" per foot stretch and his were 26"ers I believe.  now I run the same straps on my fox shocks and have never had these problems so this is one of the reasons I pre-fer fox over king.

trans man did spend several hours with brett getting all this info and it is correct as well brett did tell him that this has happened in the past and 6 months after he bought his the changes took effect but obviously they didn't send a memo to all that had the old style!  go figure!!     fabbr this is where I am with you on cutting costs to make an extra buck which is  !!

infact when trans man called to talk to king the guy that answered the phone asked him if he ran the shock with out a limiting strap at all for just a moment he said yes but only through a field for two short runs and this guy began telling him the chain of events of it's failure that unfolded on him in exact detail! and then talked to him like a know nothing kid so then trans man called me and relayed this story to me and of course this kind of $hit just boils my blood! I have not forgot and will not forget what kind of customer service this guy offered which was none!!!!!!!  but brett re-deamed the king name the following call.

 so I ask you guys here on this forum if it were you that made that call to here a king customer rep tell you how you shocks failed but not why, other than your supposed to use a limiting strap, but no we don't tell anyone that, what would you think? yep they have heard this story time and time again so what do they do make some changes and wait to see who has a problem!

[dsrace]

ok when I type in the word that little guy rolling his automatically replaces the word, why?

[dsrace]

one of the video's I posted up towards the end of it you will see doug and I looking for trans and the rest of the bunch. when we find them if you look real hard you can see all of us at his rail trying to get the 2 halves back together! it was the ls october freeze you a$$ of trip so heat wasn't an issue with the shock failing either!   

also now that trans has re-valved after finding out that at the king plant they installed the compr valving on the rebound side as per the conversation with brett at the time, he was able to drop down to 300 something psi!