Tube Frame Safety / Design

[fabr]

I understand that but with more heat in the tube the HAZ is greatly enlarged and in turn the area that is hardened is in the area of most needed elasticity.

[fabr]

Too fast cooling is ,of course ,the key to the hardening with the higher carbon content compared to 1020 .

[JimmieD]

There is a way to normalize a frame through electrical induction. This induction method is commonly used in industry. There a coil is energized and the magnetic field causes heat. It's possible to wire up a steel tube frame directly like an electric toaster element and achieve normalization temperature. With a sufficient power source it's fairly easy, but potentially quite dangerous as high voltage and amperage are present. You could die from it if you don't know what you're doing.

Just as in the mention of the paint escapade, insulation from harmful elements is the key. If you don't know enough about electricity to do this without help, don't try to do it alone. You could die from it if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

Nevertheless, it's possible, and eliminates the need for an oven etc. A little bit of imagination should reveal a huge power source, but that's up to you too, and equally dangerous.

Some may have an electrician friend to guide them in this process, it's actually simple, but highly dangerous if done incorrectly.

Understood if moderator chooses to delete!

[Engineer]

There is a way to normalize a frame through electrical induction. This induction method is commonly used in industry. There a coil is energized and the magnetic field causes heat. It's possible to wire up a steel tube frame directly like an electric toaster element and achieve normalization temperature. With a sufficient power source it's fairly easy, but potentially quite dangerous as high voltage and amperage are present. You could die from it if you don't know what you're doing.

Just as in the mention of the paint escapade, insulation from harmful elements is the key. If you don't know enough about electricity to do this without help, don't try to do it alone. You could die from it if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

Nevertheless, it's possible, and eliminates the need for an oven etc. A little bit of imagination should reveal a huge power source, but that's up to you too, and equally dangerous.

Some may have an electrician friend to guide them in this process, it's actually simple, but highly dangerous if done incorrectly.

Understood if moderator chooses to delete!

Don't try this at home kids!

(Disclaimer added)

 

[Yummi]

Aww heck, go ahead and try it at home.  Claims adjusters and morticians need work too!

[fabr]

There is a way to normalize a frame through electrical induction. This induction method is commonly used in industry. There a coil is energized and the magnetic field causes heat. It's possible to wire up a steel tube frame directly like an electric toaster element and achieve normalization temperature. With a sufficient power source it's fairly easy, but potentially quite dangerous as high voltage and amperage are present. You could die from it if you don't know what you're doing.

Just as in the mention of the paint escapade, insulation from harmful elements is the key. If you don't know enough about electricity to do this without help, don't try to do it alone. You could die from it if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

Nevertheless, it's possible, and eliminates the need for an oven etc. A little bit of imagination should reveal a huge power source, but that's up to you too, and equally dangerous.

Some may have an electrician friend to guide them in this process, it's actually simple, but highly dangerous if done incorrectly.

Understood if moderator chooses to delete!

By all means be sure to take a friend out at the same time! 
It's highly dangerous rigged up period.
Mod says do not try this.

[fabr]

I needed a laugh tonite i guess.

[JimmieD]

And there we go there now!

I'll probably do it on my next chassis if it seems necessary. Like I mentioned, I design stuff that it could be built out of northwestern cedar or Sitka spruce, the amazingly tough stuff they made masts, spars & yardarms out of. That way a chassis design is structurally real tough when done in steel. Probably not necessary to normalize using DOM cold rolled which I bought for this one.

I know some might be scratching their heads on the reference to those woods, but do some research on their relative strength even compared to steel and it's real surprising. It's the perfect monocoque design within itself!

[nvheattreating]

If you do this, please take video, I'd love to see it.  How do you control the cooling rate afterwards (which is critical for normalizing)?  How do you control max temperature?

In your description, I don't think this would actually be called induction heating, but more likely resistance heating, which is much different.

Induction heating is very common in the heat treating industry.  Are you saying this type of normalizing procedure (let's call it the Frankenstein method) is common for frame builders?   

[fabr]

And there we go there now!

I'll probably do it on my next chassis if it seems necessary. Like I mentioned, I design stuff that it could be built out of northwestern cedar or Sitka spruce, the amazingly tough stuff they made masts, spars & yardarms out of. That way a chassis design is structurally real tough when done in steel. Probably not necessary to normalize using DOM cold rolled which I bought for this one.

I know some might be scratching their heads on the reference to those woods, but do some research on their relative strength even compared to steel and it's real surprising. It's the perfect monocoque design within itself!

I have sold lumber all my life pretty much and i'll agree you COULD build a buggy from those woods. You a friend of Howard Hughes by chance? But comparing a design sufficient to use woods for the frame/mono/whatever to a frame of steel is a bit ludicrous when it comes to actual chassis design comparision of wood vs steel. Gawd,this has been entertaining!

[fabr]

And there we go there now!

I'll probably do it on my next chassis if it seems necessary. Like I mentioned, I design stuff that it could be built out of northwestern cedar or Sitka spruce, the amazingly tough stuff they made masts, spars & yardarms out of. That way a chassis design is structurally real tough when done in steel. Probably not necessary to normalize using DOM cold rolled which I bought for this one.

I know some might be scratching their heads on the reference to those woods, but do some research on their relative strength even compared to steel and it's real surprising. It's the perfect monocoque design within itself!

IF it seems necessary? If it's needed ,it's needed regardless of design. Make up your mind. Either you feel it's needed or not. Besides i want to see the vids myself!

[nvheattreating]

A bit off topic, but my friend's son is just getting into heat treating furnace sales, so I thought we'd have him load/unload a few furnaces (started off small/easy).  If you click on the photo below it should show a short video.
Pat

[BDKW1]

Nothing says excitement like fire!
 
I have been looking at this for a long time for chassis.
 
http://www.meta-lax.com/

[JimmieD]

IF it seems necessary? If it's needed ,it's needed regardless of design. Make up your mind. Either you feel it's needed or not. Besides i want to see the vids myself!

Yeah, I know. But this one will be a tame thing for easy going on street & trails, so not subject to huge stresses. Best to HT though.

[fabr]

Nothing says excitement like fire!
 
I have been looking at this for a long time for chassis.
 
http://www.meta-lax.com/

Same here,but IMO,we're getting carried away. The question is,is it necessary or just a talking/selling point?