DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: jsimp1960 on October 07, 2008, 07:13:18 PM
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Hey, I'm from North Alabama, and have just bought a rough fiberglass dune buggy body. I'm looking for ideas on how to build it, what kind of motor to put in it. Something between a stock buggy and a monster manx (www.dejongsandcars.com (http://www.dejongsandcars.com)) anyway will be mostly looking and searching for information. Thanks Jim
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There is a few vw guys here, I myself am a previous vw guy, have had and built about 5 of them, Odynuck is a current "up to date" vw guy, well have some answers.... First thing id doo, is scrap the vw chassis, and build a tube chassis for it, I had one myself, It will take a little bit to explain but is doable,m berrien buggy actually manufactures them that way now...
welcome aboard...
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Welcome to the site!
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i'm a VW guy from way back. Subaru mills are great, but you can't go wrong with VW if you play you do it right. I've built the car you are talking about many times in my head. good luck with that. If I happen to run across an old manx... hummm.
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Welcome Jsimp.
we are here to help any way we can ;)
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Welcome to the site Jsimp..
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Thanks for the welcome guys. I have some other questions I would like input on. I am planning on building a rail buggy with my fiberglass body fitted on(stretched, widened and raised). Would the regular bug front end or long travel front be better? Mostly for road use and some sand about every other year. I want to build a long travel rear arms, and need prints or something with measurements for front and rear. Before everything I've built has been from pictures and that takes a lot of head scratching and rework to make it wright. I think it would be nice for something to at least have a print with it. As for the motor I'm thinking about a vw diesel or a subaru. Don't know whether I want speed or fuel economy. Thanks in advance guys, I've just found this site and so far its been great. Thanks Jim
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As far as getting plans for suspension you will have to either buy some from somewhere or design them yourself...there are alot of places out there that make the parts and also sell the plans for them...check out the links below
http://www.desertkarts.com/ (http://www.desertkarts.com/)
http://prosandminirailframes.homestead.com/ (http://prosandminirailframes.homestead.com/)
http://www.git.com.au/~theedge/ (http://www.git.com.au/~theedge/)
there are alot of people here that can help you design your own front end and suspension components. Im sure they wouldnt have a problem helping you out. Good luck on your buggy...
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A bug front end can be used economically and will perform very well but can't be called long travel. BUT, are you sure you want a buggy that will be mostly street driven and only occasionally used in the dunes with long travel.Personally I'd say no. Reason is that LT will have rather large amounts of body roll,will nose dive a fair amount when braking and in general feel "weird" on the street. I'd stay with an extended travel VW front suspension for your purpose. borris/fabr
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you can get about 16" now days with vw components and aftermarket arms etc... Look at tuts cars... ;D
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Would it be possible to have the best of both with air shocks? Long travel beam car and have it set "stiff" for the road to minimize roll, pitch, etc and then when the time came to play, just adjust the air shocks?
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Thanks, I needed an opinion on the front suspension and that makes a lot of sense. Don't know anything about air shocks but that sounds even better and a lot easier also. Great thanks Jim
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Imo air shocks body roll way more than a coil over, Just IMO tho...
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Bugpac is the voice of experience - not me - mine was a question. With luck, others will put in there $.02.
So, would it be possible to still have the best of both with shock changes? Daily driver and 16" off road buggy when the time was right?
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Bugpac is the voice of experience - not me - mine was a question. With luck, others will put in there $.02.
So, would it be possible to still have the best of both with shock changes? Daily driver and 16" off road buggy when the time was right?
I guess i didn't read your question thoroughly, Everyone makes air shocks out to be easily tuneable, they are when your tuning with psi, psi is not how you tune a air shock, it is to establish ride height only, Now to stiffen them is a bit easier than to soften them, as getting the oil back out is just a tad more complicated than adding it, the key is precision to maintain balance amongst the shocks...Now, I am no expert by any means, from my expirience, I will not use air shocks again, I like the coilovers on this car much better than on the previous car...with a set of cross over collars on a coil over, it to is possible to fine tune the suspension...
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I'd have to agree
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Bugpac, what is tuts cars so I can look at their suspension? Thanks Jim
Ill get a picture.... ;D
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here we go...
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I have done a couple daily drivers with dual rate coil overs that can also go pre run the baja and still drive to work. The dual rate coils are awesome for doing just that.
Run a softer top spring and a firmer bottom spring, if you daily drive it go a hair stiff
on the front of a fiberglass car you may want something like a 350 on top and a 400 on the bottom. Set your dual rate stopping collar to come on sooner than later and you will have the firm ride with little body roll but be able to absorb the small stuff of daily driving and hit the trails with the firmer bottom coil taking up the whoops and open desert.
You can also add a small but nice bypass... although this costs a lot but you can then
adjust them before you go out to the deserts etc. Something to think and add later maybe not on the front where you are lighter but really think of them on the back.
I have a dual sport I can show you photos of that would be great to copy and use for an idea on a fiberglass buggy.
I buy my arms as they are almost cheaper than I can buy all the flanges metal etc and tig weld myself. So I usually make my own rear housing approx 6 inches wider and then buy 3x3 arms this allows me to get about 18 inches of rear wheel travel with micros and 930 cvs.
I also do a 6 inch wider front beam and do the longer almost 4 inch front arms.
This set up gives me just over 16 inches of front wheel travel.
Not sure where the line between long travel and normal travel starts or stops?
If you run a VW motor and tranny then a 450 over a 400 spring should work great as
a dual rate car for you and bypass shocks really should be a must if you want to
totally experience the ability to adjust your car for really running both street and off road.
I race with them on the back and just use the dual coils on the front and do just fine.
I test around my house and on streets etc. this set up also works great with out a ton
of body roll etc.
Anyways you can check out my photos at http://z11.invisionfree.com/Tut_Tech_Racing/index
and if you need any help etc. send me a pm etc.
Good luck and fiberglass buggies are awesome so enjoy.
Couple cars for ideas.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%2FVOL169%2F1054762%2F10900400%2F207449844.jpg&hash=2b9ae79230e6e25538f7118828663827bc0b1042)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%2FVOL169%2F1054762%2F17747465%2F313164915.jpg&hash=0f11e61678e87928e06d4d5db715b01093f86700)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%2FVOL169%2F1054762%2F17747465%2F313164912.jpg&hash=44f1910971d78c4148ef64d8fe74082537bbef13)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpic20.picturetrail.com%2FVOL169%2F1054762%2F17747465%2F305697679.jpg&hash=fdd27c9b0b046dd7c6b28971c828b0d6f7091e24)
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Tuts in the house! Welcome Tut!
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Thanks Yummi,
my ears were ringing so I had to come answer it... ;)
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If you're really worried about roll on the street install an anti-roll bar. Better yet, make a disconnectable ones like people put on Jeeps so it doesn't affect your off-road articulation.
TTA suspensions dive because of the natural pro-dive geometry inherent to the design. Dual rate springs and stiffer shocks are about the only way to lessen the effects. Honestly, I never really noticed it when I had the ball joint front on my Ghia.
For the money, I'd get a Type 1 1600 with an center-mount Weber 2-bbl (not the progressive, it sucks). Ought to be plenty of punch for a dune buggy and they're pretty well indestructable if you aren't an idiot.
Here's a video of the 1600 single port in my Ghia:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=3873916 (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=3873916)
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What types of disconnects are they using on the sway bars? What are they using for the bar?
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Stick with the beam.... ::)
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I agree for this member but what kinds of disconnects were you talking about kharman? And bar?
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Just a standard sway bar. Any sort of steel bar or tube will work, since all readily available steels have virtually the same elastic modulus. There is usually a removable pin at the joint between the bar link and control arm. This allows you to pin the bar up and out of the way while wheeling. Only downside is the car needs to be sitting flat to connect or disconnect them. I know the new JK has electronically controlled disconnects.
The beam suspension had swaybars from the factory. If you can fab up one that you can disconnect without much effort, why not. Surely won't hurt anything.
Search google. LOTS of pictures.