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Author Topic: BMW now looking into electric turbos  (Read 5195 times)

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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 05:45:32 AM »
+1 sort of IMO
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Offline Voodoochikin04

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 06:54:45 AM »
plus, dont turbos spin in excess of 140,000rpms??   wouldnt it take some hefty gearing and powerful motor to spin one so fast?
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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2011, 07:30:18 AM »
The bmw electric concept works only for very low rpm/off idle boosting. After that it's conventional.
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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2011, 07:31:01 AM »
DId any of you guys actually read the info???????????
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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2011, 07:54:37 AM »
Quote from: BDKW1 on November 07, 2011, 12:11:52 AM
Depending on how efficient your turbo is, your exhuast pressures will be anywhere from a couple of pounds higher than your boost pressure to almost double on a poor system. It robs a great deal of power on the exhaust stroke to push all that exhaust out at pressure to spin the turbo. The added intake volume produces enough power to offset these losses and give you a little LOT extra. The upside is your friction losses aren't (any any near) as high as a mechanicaly driven super charger. Where the heat and maintianing it comes into play is the extra volume of the exhaust gases.
I likey that better. ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) There's no doubt that stuffing chambers more fully takes a bit of energy to do so whether supercharging or turbo charging. Turbos are just more efficient than SC's according to most. This can be debated in many ways but in the end for durability and efficiency the turbo takes the nod. If looking for nothing but better throttle response a SC takes the nod. The BMW thing is really nothing more than an electric SC .
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Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2011, 08:08:29 AM »
There are plenty of cars out there today that are supercharged and turboed and turbo cars do NOT get a lot better mileage driven the same as similiar supercharged cars.

If turboes were so free HP with no drag then turboes would automatically get more mileage. Given all else the same.

But that does not happen.

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2011, 08:44:51 AM »
Quote from: Nutz4sand on November 07, 2011, 08:08:29 AM
There are plenty of cars out there today that are supercharged and turboed and turbo cars do NOT get a lot better mileage driven the same as similiar supercharged cars.

If turboes were so free HP with no drag then turboes would automatically get more mileage. Given all else the same.

But that does not happen.

In addition to the power that the huge back pressure created by a turbo creates, it is common to run a richer air fuel mixture on turbo engines to cool it. The twin Honeywell turbos on my SHO were specifically designed to run safely at higher temperatures in order to optimize the air/fuel ratio better for mileage. Even so, if I were to flog it hard long enough, the computer would see the turbos starting to get hot and bump up the mixture to save the turbos.

It's not a turbo if it's not exhaust driven despite what that article says. What they describe as a twin turbo setup is a sequential setup. The companies that sell the electric superchargers which actually work sell them as a nitrous alternative. Instead of filling a bottle, you are charging extra batteries while you tool around to have a burst of power when you need it. So what BMW is looking to do is similar to the guys that have a setup to inject nitrous until they hit a certain boost pressure.

This is not the first time I have heard of using an electric motor to reduce turbo lag. A company in Michigan has a patent on it for their engine. http://www.ecomotors.com/mechatronik-division If you look at their engine design hard, you may see that it would produces very little vacuum. So boost pressure is essential to fill the cylinders. But without boost at low RPMs, it produces little exhaust to in turn produce boost. So turbo lag on their engine is likely horrible without the addition of the electric drive.
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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2011, 01:20:03 PM »
I don't mean to imply ,myself, that a turbo does not use energy to run it. Nothing does that. The point I make is that a turbo uses  reclaimed lost heat energy to run it and a SC takes HP directly from the crank. To most a moot point. To me it's a difference to be considered.
 Here's some food for thought:  http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=181034
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 01:27:45 PM by masterfabr »
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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2011, 01:51:01 PM »
Here's some good general info from a more pro SC small engine site.
http://www.superchargedmiata.net/en/handleiding/turbo-vs-supercharger
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Offline dsrace

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2011, 06:46:09 PM »
that's a nice article and from what I've seen and read now I will still go turbo! but it will be interesting to see how bmw's idea works out for them but with those cars they aren't shooting for radical power just a bit more with mpg's which is hard to obtain when people get happy with the throttle but for those that buy them new I don't see that being a problem.   ;)
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Offline fabr

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2011, 06:49:57 PM »
The OEM's are looking at whatever they can to meet new milage requirements.
   Sarcasm Yes,i know all about the engines that run on water and the miracle 100MPG carbs. If the gov and big oil would just let us have the technology.............................. Sarcasm
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Offline Engineer

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2011, 09:25:43 PM »
How about letting us have 2% more emissions in exchange for 25% better mileage.

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Offline BDKW1

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2011, 10:03:08 PM »
Seems Cheby is also on this.

http://www.gizmag.com/controlled-power-technologies-48v-electric-vtes-supercharger/20037/

I was wondering about the electric motor still being 12V or if this was for the new 48V systems. The Cheby one a 7KW=145.8A at 48V=583A at 12V. Seems a little more practical at 48V........

Now if they really wanted to get efficient, supercharged motor with a compound turbo.......
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Offline Carlriddle

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2011, 07:17:20 AM »
SC usally set in 8-10 lb range, usually not intercooled cause you not using hot exhaust to spin turbo, but if it cost 50 hp to get 100 hp thats not real efficient.  I'd be worried about over rev the SC on a bike motor.

Turbo probably have to intercool, esp in higher boost, much less drag on motor(similat to a restrictive muffler or cat), more tube work exhaust mod to setup, but way more hp avail(higher boost), way more support

Electric turbo,???

Turbo or SC cars aren't driven by little old ladies on sundays, gotta keep the foot off the floor for better mpg's.
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Offline Nutz4sand

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Re: BMW now looking into electric turbos
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2011, 08:44:34 AM »
Quote from: Carlriddle on November 08, 2011, 07:17:20 AM
SC usally set in 8-10 lb range, usually not intercooled cause you not using hot exhaust to spin turbo, but if it cost 50 hp to get 100 hp thats not real efficient.  I'd be worried about over rev the SC on a bike motor.

Turbo probably have to intercool, esp in higher boost, much less drag on motor(similat to a restrictive muffler or cat), more tube work exhaust mod to setup, but way more hp avail(higher boost), way more support

Electric turbo,???

Turbo or SC cars aren't driven by little old ladies on sundays, gotta keep the foot off the floor for better mpg's.

Based on what?   Its definatly harder to measure this drag VS a supercharger but how do you KNOW its less drag?
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