If true this aint good. Time to step up. Gun control starting. True??

[Nutz4sand]

I give up trying to make you see things from my perspective Nutz.

No Chris I can see your perspective and why your wrong.  Its you that seems to have the issue not seeing here.

You keep bringing up the same things I have already stated my opinion on and going over them again, and interjecting sly little barbs here and there. "Have another tissue Chris."

I keep bringing up the same points BECAUSE you were wrong with you first posts about it and YOU NEVER CHANGED! You keep saying the same things BUT THEY ARE STLL WRONG so I need to try to keep reminding you of that. But I can see thats not likely gonna work... So the tissue comment seems needed too. Its NOT your opinion. Its OUR RIGHT. Deal with it. 

Also note that you have been asking for facts and now admit its your opinion.  Your opinion DOES NOT hold more weight than OUR BILL OF RIGHTS!  You just admitted you have been arguing to support your opinion and nothing more.

If you could manage to be civil and mature maybe I'd bother to reply to that wall of text,

Ah dude, Stating the truth IS as civil and mature as it gets. Its the people who cannot or WILLNOT see the truth that are the problem. Again your trying to throw light off the fact that you mussed up with the civil and mature comments. Especially RIGHT after you make a comment about my "sly little barbs". Don't be a hypocrit. Trying to state YOUR OPINION should be our rights is pretty uncivil and certainly immature. So don't go tossing that crud into the wind when its blowing right back at yah hurricane force.
 

but hey, you want to be at the dunes, I wanna go and see my newborn niece. I'm just gonna let you go on your way mate.

lol this above is prolley as good as we will get from you admitting your wrong I bet. Its still a cop-out at best but likely all you can swallow.

There you go, you 'won' a discussion on the internet. Congratulations.

Ahh Chris. I had won this arguement at my first post against you on it
You just seemed not able to see that. Nearly everyone else had no trouble seeing it and supporting what I said.

You want him to be reasonable Fabr??             Best of luck with that. 

[Boostinjdm]

You want him to be reasonable Fabr??             Best of luck with that. 

What a Douche....

Ah dude, Stating the truth IS as civil and mature as it gets.

Who's truth?

It is clear that to keep and bear arms surely doesn't mean your apendages it means weapons...

Agreed,  and to the point I was trying to make...
If you have a hand full of M&M's (weapons), and I take away all the green ones (guns), you still have a hand full of M&M's.
Yup, it fits the wording of the 2nd Ammendment...
Again, I'm not saying it should be done...

[Nutz4sand]

What a Douche....

Agian we know you MUST be looking in a mirror when you say this.

You have not read ANYTHING in this whole thread apparently.

Agreed,  and to the point I was trying to make...
If you have a hand full of M&M's (weapons), and I take away all the green ones (guns), you still have a hand full of M&M's.
Yup, it fits the wording of the 2nd Ammendment...
Again, I'm not saying it should be done...

But your saying it so give up your guns and take your M+M's or shut the Eff up.

You of all people who say it aint so yet still want to utilize the 2nd amendment are worse than a person who it does not apply to trying to decry it.

And you try to call me a name. You are truly a sad person Boost.
Your own posts shows you feel you do not have the rights you do and you criticize others for it. All while saying you aint giving them up.

We can see who the douche is. A boosted douche. 

[chrishallett83]

[Boostinjdm]

Agian we know you MUST be looking in a mirror when you say this.

I'm really trying to resist responding to this, but sometimes I just can't help myself. And you did say it twice.

I think that I'm going to have to consult the manual for this...

Ah, here it is "Verbal Warfare and Name Calling for Third Graders"

(Shuffle, shuffle, turn page)

I found it!  It appears that when the, "you must be looking in a mirror" phrase is used, the proper responce is....

I'm rubber, you're glue....

 

[Nutz4sand]

I'm really trying to resist responding to this, but sometimes I just can't help myself. And you did say it twice.

I think that I'm going to have to consult the manual for this...

Ah, here it is "Verbal Warfare and Name Calling for Third Graders"

(Shuffle, shuffle, turn page)

I found it!  It appears that when the, "you must be looking in a mirror" phrase is used, the proper responce is....

I'm rubber, you're glue....

 

This from THE PERSON who called me a Douche.....

Do you EVEN think before you type? You paint yourself into a corner more often than not.

You call a person a name then toss that crap out. I already said the same thing to you twice in that you must be looking in a mirror cause everyone (with a brain) can see you cannot be serious due to cross checking YOUR OWN comments.

I guess I tried to sink to your level so you MIGHT understand cause you aint smart enough to play at an adult level.

So Boost if you believe what you say you do who on this board are you gonna give your guns for that bag of M+M's

If you will not give up the guns then you DO NOT believe what you typed.

You cannot have it both ways. If you do not believe it means firearms give them up.

Or are you full of it?

[Nutz4sand]

[chuckorlando]

In Orlando in the past 3 months we've had our share of crime. 2 stick out though. 1 a lady gas station worker was being robbed. A customer heard her screaming from the parking lot. He grabbed his gun and ran in. He yeld freeze and the guy turned and stood up. Double tapped in the chest he hit the ground and will never rob again

Just yesterday 2 guys kicked in a mans door. They robbed the guy and started to leave. The guy grabbed the shot gun. The found both guys up the road with holes in em. They will do there time and probly not in any more doors.

Also violent crime has went down since since we've been able to shoot if we feel threatened or someone else is. Both of these guy's would have went to jail a year ago due to selfdefense laws. Now the can shoot and that 3 criminals that wont be robbing

[chrishallett83]

It won't stop them all, no. But it will stop some, and also lower the amount of accidental deaths. Is that a bad thing?

Nutz, the first result from the link you posted is a Snopes article refuting your point. Their article also contains a table of statistics showing the exact crime you are wary of (armed robbery with a firearm) drastically decreasing in frequency after the buy-back scheme, i.e. from 27.8% of armed robberies including firearms in 1995 to 14% of armed robberies including firearms in 2000.

As far as your imagined scenario of you defeating an armed intruder in an old-west style shootout, I'll leave you to it. You can fantasize about being Jason Bourne all you want, I'll just make my house secure, and maintain my insurance. I got a security linked alarm, deadbolts and screens on all doors and windows. If we're at home (Amy and I) and someone tries to get in, by the time they've gotten the screens off and started hacking at the deadbolts, we will be in one of our neighbours apartments and the cops will have arrived, thanks to the alarm notifying them before we were even awakened. If someone magically manages to get in while we're not home, well, that's what the insurance is for.

If you do manage to get all shooty with some 'perps', and one of their bullets goes a bit astray and kills one of your children or your wife, would you still think staying and fighting rather than leaving was the right idea?

And for the last time, I never said I don't think you have the right to own a firearm. The point I was trying to make (admittedly not very effectively) was that I don't believe the second amendment outlines that specifically, so legally it is flawed. Regardless of that, I do believe that Americans have the right to own firearms. I believe that the legislation about that could do with a little refining, but I'm certainly not trying to take your, or any responsible gun owners firearms away from them.

[Nutz4sand]

It won't stop them all, no. But it will stop some, and also lower the amount of accidental deaths. Is that a bad thing?

This above is no more a true statement than saying Having guns will allow people to stop from being murdered. Thus preventing "accidental deaths" at the hands of an intruder. Is that a bad thing? 

Since you like citing things why don't you reasearch all the work Snopes did to prove what they say. A comprehensive list would help to persuade me they did the homewhork they claim too. There is NO WAY snopes can afford to do all the investigating it claims too. Not on all it says it does. 

Then maybe I will believe a thing Snopes has to say more than any other thing I read.

You make me shooting someone out to be a fantasy almost.

I can safely say that your alarm and the deadbolts and screens would take a good thief (likely armed with a gun) less then two minutes to get past with out tripping the alarm or letting you know they were coming.

What if they approached you outside the house? Then its no time. 

Commercial alarms are a joke to most thiefs who are not first timers trying thier first time. Many of them were alarm installers so they know how they work. Most of the specs for a companies alarm can be learned simply by asking them to quote you for your house. They are happy to show you all the wonderful ways they "stop" a crook. But to a good crook seeing this demoed in his own home its just another class on how to bypass it.

The only good alarm is one a person designs and builds himself. In a way that no one else has a clue how to disarm it or even detect it. Or what it might do to "get attention" to alert the people in the hosue and the neihbors something is wrong.

I am also not worried about shooting family members. None of them would approach without letting me know its them and they announce it clearly. I would not shoot if I was not sure. But any family member not announced knows what to do to indicate they are friend and not foe. 

A person lost knows to come to the front door of a house and my house has sensor lights so they an see and know where to go and we can see them. 

Only a crook would be in the other places and even there they would be in the spotlight. No cutting my power will not make the lights not work. I built the system myself. Its either powered by a backup or has its own battery.

I too have "soft detterrents" but if that does not change a persons mind then its pretty clear they are not there to sell cookies.

[fastcorvairs]

Kind of like this a nutz. I likey

[chuckorlando]

I will say by and large, just a sign that states you have an alarm will turn most thievs away. If you got something a person really wants, or a person has a good idea where to look, a thief has plenty of time to get in and out. It also may not stop a home invader or a pro thief. But for a pro to be at your house you got something and they know it, or you got a real nice place.

In the same manner, a sign that say's you'll shoot will turn most away as well. At the same time when a store gets robbed and the perp gets shot, that store dont gget robbed anymore.

Your a fool to think you cant be got. Special forces get killed and they are very perpared. But like them, you take evry percaution you can so as to have the best chance

[chrishallett83]

This above is no more a true statement than saying Having guns will allow people to stop from being murdered. Thus preventing "accidental deaths" at the hands of an intruder. Is that a bad thing? 

My point is not about preventing crims from shooting people they intend to. That is almost impossible to prevent happening. I'm talking about backyard accidents where some kid accidently blasts his mates head open with the rifle he gets at his tenth birthday party, or some hick shooting in his driveway ricochets a bullet into his neighbours house and injures someone.

You make me shooting someone out to be a fantasy almost.

I can safely say that your alarm and the deadbolts and screens would take a good thief (likely armed with a gun) less then two minutes to get past with out tripping the alarm or letting you know they were coming.

A pro thief like that isn't going to break in while someone is home are they? If they really want to pinch my mountain bike, or t.v. or computer, then they're not much of an expert thief anyway, 'cos if they were, they'd know they wouldn't get much more than a hundred bucks for all three through a 'fence'.

What if they approached you outside the house? Then its no time. 

I don't know exactly how low the rates are for armed muggings with a firearm in Western Australia, but they are pretty damn low. In the 26 years I've been alive, I haven't heard of one. A couple of armed service staion hold ups each year maybe, but no muggings.

And anyway, in that case, you give them your shit and let them on their way. Try and be a hero with the old-west quickdraw and you'll likely be picking a bullet out of your guts.

Commercial alarms are a joke to most thiefs who are not first timers trying thier first time. Many of them were alarm installers so they know how they work. Most of the specs for a companies alarm can be learned simply by asking them to quote you for your house. They are happy to show you all the wonderful ways they "stop" a crook. But to a good crook seeing this demoed in his own home its just another class on how to bypass it.

I know that. The alarm is not meant to make the house an impenetrable fortress (although the steel grills and deadbolts do a reasonable job of that), it is there to slow them down, alert us, and the police.

The only good alarm is one a person designs and builds himself. In a way that no one else has a clue how to disarm it or even detect it. Or what it might do to "get attention" to alert the people in the hosue and the neihbors something is wrong.

That's debateable. But from your perspective, a valid point. As I said, that's not really an issue for me.

I am also not worried about shooting family members. None of them would approach without letting me know its them and they announce it clearly. I would not shoot if I was not sure. But any family member not announced knows what to do to indicate they are friend and not foe. 

It doesn't have to be one of your bullets that goes through a wall and sprays your kids brains all over the floor mate. In fact, I doubt it would. You sound like the kind of guy that would have weapons for home defense loaded with slow, soft rounds. You've probably got something like a .32 revolver loaded with hollowpoints locked in your bedside table. If the crim is using a .45 with jacketed rounds, who knows what could happen?

A person lost knows to come to the front door of a house and my house has sensor lights so they an see and know where to go and we can see them. 

Only a crook would be in the other places and even there they would be in the spotlight. No cutting my power will not make the lights not work. I built the system myself. Its either powered by a backup or has its own battery.

I too have "soft detterrents" but if that does not change a persons mind then its pretty clear they are not there to sell cookies.

So why stay around and give them what they want? I believe a gun should be the last line of defense, not the first. Leave, and if they come after you, then have a crack at filling 'em full of lead.

[SPEC]

Now that was a good post Chris
Even - tho I won't join the debate.You did make some good points that I agree whole heartedly with...Back yard accidents do happen weapon cleaning accidents do happen...But people kill people guns/firearms are just a tool...I personally don't need a firearm to defend my home and belongings...Just ask the fooken looser that tryed to steal my truck that I had hooked up to a range fencer...I wonder how food tastes with half a tongue and a irregular heartbeat...But I do feel that it makes life easier if I can reach out past the end of a pipe to touch someone

[Nutz4sand]

Spec you might have liked his post some but I see it as more hot air.

He does make a few points but they have had shows where really good thieves tell you the best time to rob a family is dinnertime.

They are eating and making noise and even the dog is usually distracted hoping for a tidbit (if they have one).

Other thieves will try when you are not home. But be it a tv or jewelry or cash they will take it. If its not much then tough for them. It took them no real time to get it.

Steel grills and deadbolts aint jack to a person who wants to get past them. A fortress they do not make. They slow down a knowledable thief mere seconds.

I can assure you I have more than a .32 and soft rounds they aint unless your in a tank.

Again you speculate. Again your wrong.

I MAY be picking bullets out of my gut but so will they. More likely them because I know the lay of my place and where any good hiding/vantage points is including places to protect myself while being able to set an offense from relative safety. THEY DON'T.
 
Unless they shoot me from a distance with a rifle. But if somone is aiming to kill you that way its likely they will.

If you aint armed they will laugh at the harsh language you use. Often still shoot you if you aint armed. Maybe to kill if you can ID them. Maybe just for a twisted thrill. Yah there are people out there like that.