You want change? part two

[trojan]

Cause no way it burned up upon impact...

yeah, they must have been regulation hollywood fireballs bursting out the sides of the building on impact? lucky Bruce Willis was in town that day

Look up rat traps for those buildings

I have tried, but I can only find stuff on those other rats

[fabr]

No, I'd call that 20 minutes.... a slow buckling crumble. Like one would expect... see? If it was 4m tall and collapsed in about 0.9 secs then you would have a point

What we DO know is the official story is exactly that, a story... To believe it means you understand it and agree, To have faith in it is entirely different and agreeing on faith is altogether misguided.

You keep saying conspiracy, not I.

And it is just that buckling and distortion that fell the building.The buildin g didn't just fall instantly. Ther were factors building UP TO the instant collapse.

[trojan]

I am not.  I am pointing out that they all fell the same way.

Oh, did I miss the third plane then  :P

To me, the fact that any building fell at all was odd, that they fell straight down was really odd and all falling the same makes it really really odd. you?

[fabr]

Look up the TYPE of construction! It's pretty simple.

[trojan]

The building didn't just fall instantly. Ther were factors building UP TO the instant collapse.

ESPECIALLY IF the HUGE supports were buckled, the remaining structure not effected by fire would have resisted the collapse and slowed the collapse to slower than gravity. further, the structure would fall over rather than implode on itself.

the time of fall is meant to mean the time the building starts to move utill it stops.

[trojan]

we're still talking building seven here, localised MINOR fires caused the WHOLE building to spontaneously implode? What "house of cards" construction are you referring to?

[Nutz4sand]

Wrong kind of structure. Totally different. Look up the girder/beam construction and you will see that you are comparing apples to oranges with that vid.

I know this building in the link I posted and the towers had little in common other than they were buildings Fabr. Its was a lil reminder to Engineer that a build can start and stop. Das all.

But it does not change the fact that what happened sure looked far more staged than an accident. From the WTC to the Pentagon story.

Way more stuff saying it was fake than a few G-ment officials saying it was real. And scince you don't trust G-ment anyways.... 

[Engineer]

I agree building 7 was odd.  What floor was the fire on?  Most of the vidoes I have seen show the top and by the time they pan to the bottom there is to much dust to see what is happening.

If you look at many disasters over the years though, many times a small problem sets off a huge disaster as the causes combine and escalate.  Because I have seen cases where through no intentional cause buildings have collapsed or bridges etc, then when I see building 7 where two 110 story buildings fell across the street, and there was a fire inside, logic dictates that some of those circumstances could have played a roll.

One part I have never heard about building 7.  It was many hours after the other two I believe.  Were they actively fighting fire? (I don't see any smoke in the videos of it falling.  Were there people in 7?  Did they evacuate because they knew there was a risk, or was it a complete suprise that it came down?

I think I heard the fire was on the 5th floor.  It was a 47 story building.  Most implosions start with explosives at the bottom.  If the failure was on the 5th floor, why would you not expect it to appear similar to buildings intentionally taken down?

[trojan]

speed. the remaining unaffected structure should have held, at least for a moment or more.. but the whole thing implodes



5 & 6 behaved as expected


here's some questions answered. sorry about the conspiracy crap intermixed with the info

[Nutz4sand]

This is a little different than the towers but no less BS that they claim happened at the Pentagon.

What really cracked me up with ALL the commotion there is a little convience store near the pentagon with cameras watching the gas pumps. The cameras were aligned right at the the spot where it hit.

EVEN with all the shit going on secret service men raided the gas station and took the tapes from the recorders in LESS THAN TWO MINUTES from the "hit".  You gonna tell me an attack out of nowhere and someones got the mind to think we best get the tape from that gas station across so we know what really happened...... BS! They would have been running panicked had it been a surprise.

Oh yeah. The BBC was broadcasting one of the towers falling 20 MINUTES BEFORE IT ACTUALLY DID! This was not due to time differances. This was due to them telling what they were told to tell. Oops.

The rat story. Which the video seems to be gone from you tube as well as other accounts wiped off the US internet is a man telling about his uncle being brought over from overseas to install electronic rat traps throughout the WTC buildings. They were all over on every floor most near the collums where rats run along walls as one would expect. The electronic part was to a center of the building that if a trap caught a rat it would alert somone to it so they could go get it out. All these traps wired to one spot.

 The twist is why not have any local place do it? Why fly a guy in from overseas to install rat traps? The guy who did the work told his nephew that these traps were not like any he had seen. The man himself thought some of the locations were not rat worthy but did what he was told to do then flown home. He told his nephew that the locations were more like detonation locations as he had worked for demo places in his own country for a time.

These same wires that tell of a rat in the trap could later be used to detonate charges at each location. Convieneint eeh?

Then there is the recorded coverage of a Fireman seeing a bomb in one of the towers. He was yelling it into his radio as he tried to get out.

This is just a tiny bit of the stories that eat away seriously at what we were told happened.

Airplanes indeed.   

[fabr]

we're still talking building seven here, localised MINOR fires caused the WHOLE building to spontaneously implode? What "house of cards" construction are you referring to?

LOL!!!,that right there shows you haven't a clue as to what you speak.

[fabr]

sO,YOU GUYS REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE TAKEN DOWN WITH EXPLOSIVES.iT TAKES WEEKS AND EVEN MONTHS TO PREP A BUILDING FOR AN IMPLOSION. iT TAKES REMOVING CONCRETE FROM SUPPORT COLUMNS.iT TAKES CUTTING THE BEAMS TO WEAKEN THEM. iT TAKES DIRECTIONAL EXPLOSIVES CORRECTLY PLACED AND A LOT OF IT.  rFFIN CAPS LOCK! Sorry.  Anyway you guys can't really believe that all that work went unnoticed can you?  You really believe that all of those "rat traps" were explosives? How many of those traps were set up to do any damage even if they were explosives? I'm betting none were burmed to direct the explosive to do serious and direct damage. Have you ever set off an explosive that was just sitting in the open? Bunch of noise but little damage . Same explosive used AND burmed on 3 sides and you will do a lot of damage. I have an Army demolitions expert for a buddy. He says your full of bull. He says no fricken way would a non directed charge ,hats not in intimate contact ,would even harm one of the beams. That's why they either drill holes in concrete reinforced beams or jackhammer the concrete away to precut,place the charge AND cover the explosive to direct the energy. Just setting a "rat trap" near a column would be ineffective.

[Nutz4sand]

And even after stating all that Fabr you will blindly accept that two buildings hit VERY differently by airplanes will fall the exact same way.

If you really got a "demolitions expert" who told you that I would never trust another word out his mouth about explosives. 

Niether you nor I know how the charges were set. Nor if these supposed rat traps were very well laid out. Or how they were designed. They were simply a means to cover those points needed to breaks the structure. The charges placed later could have been shaped charges. These will send nearly all of thier force in the desired direction. Just gotta tell them when to go boom. 

BUT if what he says is true. Then the plane was not really contained to well and the major part blast would have simply went out the already shattered windows. Bunch of noise but little damage.

Still does not explain the explosions from the buildings top to bottom. Boom boom boom from those who heard it and lived.

Unless you want to beleive the story about Jet fuel flowing down the elevator and exploding from floor to floor..... Riiiiiiight.

After inital impact the fuel was ignited then and there. NO WAY does fuel flow out of wings that are tore to shreds in a fireball THAT big and flow down floors to ignite. MUCH less up to the top too.

That fuel was literally atomized as it came out of the shredded wing at the speeds they hit and ignited then and there. All else was just that. Something else. 

[trojan]

Shape charges, I expect, still would require securing to the main structure to be effective.
I reckon it involved thermite/thermate myself as there is some evidence to it's presence. How it got there is perhaps the next question?

[fabr]

And even after stating all that Fabr you will blindly accept that two buildings hit VERY differently by airplanes will fall the exact same way.

If you really got a "demolitions expert" who told you that I would never trust another word out his mouth about explosives. 

Niether you nor I know how the charges were set. Nor if these supposed rat traps were very well laid out. Or how they were designed. They were simply a means to cover those points needed to breaks the structure. The charges placed later could have been shaped charges. These will send nearly all of thier force in the desired direction. Just gotta tell them when to go boom. 

BUT if what he says is true. Then the plane was not really contained to well and the major part blast would have simply went out the already shattered windows. Bunch of noise but little damage.

Still does not explain the explosions from the buildings top to bottom. Boom boom boom from those who heard it and lived.

Unless you want to beleive the story about Jet fuel flowing down the elevator and exploding from floor to floor..... Riiiiiiight.

After inital impact the fuel was ignited then and there. NO WAY does fuel flow out of wings that are tore to shreds in a fireball THAT big and flow down floors to ignite. MUCH less up to the top too.

That fuel was literally atomized as it came out of the shredded wing at the speeds they hit and ignited then and there. All else was just that. Something else. 

You haven't watched many vidss of plane crashes then huh. The fuel does not just completely burn in just a few seconds. Why would there be a need for airport fire trucks if that were the case?That and the fact that there was plenty of other combustibles available that would have been instantly ignited in the face of a fierce fire.