Author Topic: You want change? part one (Read 27298 times)

trojan · « **Reply #30 on:** July 25, 2009, 08:09:26 AM »

Quote from: Reidy02 on July 25, 2009, 12:31:55 AM

You waiting for more Trojan?

No mate just enjoying some delicious poached irony, of course it's always better with that ol' brown bitter sauce, but hey, buggers can't be choosers

fabr · « **Reply #31 on:** July 25, 2009, 08:30:51 AM »

Quote from: Tone on July 25, 2009, 07:51:02 AM

good on ya camel

sound like there is more than one person on here that believes in social justice

and not greed greed greed

Are you calling success greed? Are you saying that making a profit is greed? If greed is soooo bad then why don't you voluntarily reduce your wages and work for just enough money to get by on. No need for any extra to build buggies with. You KNOW that is just greed.

Engineer · « **Reply #32 on:** July 25, 2009, 10:15:43 AM »

Quote from: Tone on July 25, 2009, 07:51:02 AM

good on ya camel

sound like there is more than one person on here that believes in social justice

and not greed greed greed

This is the thinking that is the problem. And it spreads like a disease.

I would very much like to hear your definition of "Social Justice".

You apparently believe that you can make the poor rich by making the rich poor.

I don't even know where to start, so I am just going to post this:

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had once failed an entire class.

That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B.

The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

Could not be any simpler than that.

fabr · « **Reply #33 on:** July 25, 2009, 10:19:44 AM »

Pretty simple isn't it?

Camel · « **Reply #34 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:25:51 AM »

I learned my lessons in 'socialism' the hard way.

Kapooka, 1981.

For those of you who don't know. Kapooka is recruit school for the Australian Army.

We learned to run. At first we thought we were being made to run as a group. We would be run at double-time, in step, as a platoon. We would run further every day. Right after the pressure cooker (an hour around the heated pool doing ever increasing 'rounds' of star jumps, crunches, pull-ups, burpees, etc).

We would run until men faltered. They would slow down or drop out. Some would even collapse.

Then our kindly secco's (Section Commanders) or Platoon Sergeant would beckon us to 'Go Round' which we all knew meant just one thing. We would do a 180 degree turn and run, in step, past our fallen brother. Then we would be do another 180, and pick him up on the way through.

We weren't being taught to run as a group. We were being taught to run as a team.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

Like Trojan said. We remember when you came to our aid in WWII.

I've collected the dogtags found when the locals were digging a rubbish pit in PNG. The number of allied and Japanese dead is staggering. To find Australian and US dogtags in the same patch of ground tells a story that is both sobering yet heartening. To find doubles (both sets, i.e. one of the pair is usually sent home) and to see names and religions on those tags does make you think. I don't know how many other servicemen read these forums, but they'll know what I mean when I say that the bonds forged in times of adversity transcend race and religion.

I'm no rascist. I know that people are people are the same no matter where they live, what colour they are or what religion they believe in. Believe me, they still worry and dream about the same things you and I do. It's just the circumstances that are different.

Obama is a different President to what the US has traditionally had. So what if his white mum fell in a love with a black Kenyan? Lots of young women fall in love and for whatever reason get left holding the baby. Even if his dad happened to be a genius. At least he left his son some smarts (and a deep suntan).

I'm not going to say I'm a traditional Republican voter (because I can't!) but what I will say is this. If the only thing he achieves is to have the EU and UK love him and that causes them to turn away from the Russians and return to the NATO fold then he is a top bloke in my

.

Forget the crap going on in the US right now, forget the internal bickering and navel gazing. Get behind the bloke because he is exactly what the US needs right now. All this talk about 911 and a government conspiracy is distracting crap. And besides, if it was a government plot then it is an awfully unimaginative one. Why? Because just two years before 911, Putin blew up several Russian apartment blocks and killed hundreds of his countryment to get the Kremlin and KGB back into power. Doubt it? The dumb KGB fxxks got caught red-handed! Why wasn't there an uproar? Because they murdered the media who reported it.

The facts are all there.

As for the 911 'conspiracy', I'd drop it. We all know it couldn't have been Bush. Cheney was certainly smart enough though......

Camel

Engineer · « **Reply #35 on:** July 25, 2009, 11:49:16 AM »

I like your spirit Camel.

I would love nothing more than to see America pull together and solve the problems we face. For our own good and for the worlds. But just like many on the left cannot see the logic of fighting against terrorism, there is no way that we can pull together behind someone who wants to remake America into a country that stands on none of the principles on which it was founded.

BHO does not believe in the traditional American dream that I grew up with and many on this board expouse. He see nothing good in America as it was. Have you ever heard him say so? His only praise is for the way he wants it to be. And that means running America down along with our ideals of free enterprise etc.

trojan · « **Reply #36 on:** July 25, 2009, 12:37:05 PM »

C'mon Eng, none of that's true mate. The fiscal conservatives object to the fighting on financial grounds. I reckon Osama's last name is Goldstein (can you work that riddle out? not you Camel!) You might not like what he's doing (it infuriates me to give money to corrupt institutions like banks & GM) but at least he's actually trying to save the US from the crap Dubya is principally responsible for. Did your grand parents tell you what it was like for them in the Great Depression? mine did.... and then they told me again, and they would mention it in passing... perhaps they thought it was important I remember

like Camel said, it makes everything else very petty by comparison

chrishallett83 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 25, 2009, 06:46:18 PM »

Barack Hussein Obama/BHO.

What is John McCains middle name? Or Sarah Palins? Or even Joe Biden? Why did nobody refer to them by their full name? If you think it is any other reason than plain ol' scaremongering (tinged with a side-serving of blatant racism) you are grievously mistaken.

Engineer · « **Reply #38 on:** July 25, 2009, 07:13:23 PM »

What exactly is he saving us from? Is he saving us from the 10% unemployment? Nope. Is he somehow helping the people in forclosure that are losing their homes? Nope. Is he doing anything to energize small business which makes up 85% of our workforce? Nope.

What is he doing? Trying to pass cap and trade which amounts to a wealth transfer from every American to the government and to big business. Trying to pass health care "reform" which will get the government involved in another 30% of our economy. How are these problems that Dubya left us with?

I would agree that Dubya completely dropped the ball by going along with the "affordable housing" idea that allowed the government to lend to people that could in no way make the payments, and drove housing prices up until the bubble burst. That and the price of gas doubling seemes to have set off the current crisis. I haven't seen Obama do anything to fix these issues. I don't believe after being bailed out that Freddy and Fanny have changed any polices on housing, and on the fuel front Obama is aginst drilling for oil anywhere, along with being aginst any new nuclear power and he is actively trying to hurt the coal industry. Please tell me what he is doing to fix anything.

We had a stimulus bill rammed through that hasn't stimulated anything because it was never designed to. Most of the spending is deferred to have more impact close to the 2010 elections.

We had big problems in funding for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid coming into this mess. These haven't even been addressed.

I guess I don't see how, when the problem is excess spending, that more spending fixes the problem? I understand how a stimulus plan can boost the economy, but we are talking about forever programs here.

When you talk about Greed, what do you mean exactly? I think I am strarting to agree with you on greed. I see plenty of it in the government and on Wall Street which are joined at this point. Or are you talking about the average joe citizen who works hard, starts a business and works his whole life to build it into something?

chrishallett83 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 25, 2009, 07:50:11 PM »

S'funny how some people expect a guy to magically reverse all the damage done over the past few decades in a couple of months...

fabr · « **Reply #40 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:17:44 PM »

Quote from: chrishallett83 on July 25, 2009, 07:50:11 PM

S'funny how some people expect a guy to magically reverse all the damage done over the past few decades in a couple of months...

BHO SAID he would.Was he lying or just uninformed or totally naive? And if it took decades to get us to this point that MUST mean that liberals were just a willing part of the "plan" then not just Pres. Bush and that gremlin Cheney.

fabr · « **Reply #41 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:19:12 PM »

BTW it's been more like 7 months now. I'd like to hear your answers to engineers questions myself.

Camel · « **Reply #42 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:31:39 PM »

I'm a company directory. Need I say more?

Okay, I will. There is profit. Which keeps me interested. And then there is gouging. Which is blatant greed. That doesn't benefit anyone except the parasite.

Camel · « **Reply #43 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:41:26 PM »

Quote from: trojan on July 25, 2009, 12:37:05 PM

I reckon Osama's last name is Goldstein (can you work that riddle out? not you Camel!)

The definition of a great teacher is that they don't tell, they inspire realisation, i.e. you knew it all along but hadn't realised it.

Goldstein. Absolutely brilliant. What a concept! Particularly when applied to these debates.

Trojan, I am in awe.

fabr · « **Reply #44 on:** July 25, 2009, 09:45:37 PM »

Quote from: Camel on July 25, 2009, 09:31:39 PM

I'm a company directory. Need I say more?

Okay, I will. There is profit. Which keeps me interested. And then there is gouging. Which is blatant greed. That doesn't benefit anyone except the parasite.

No one is arguing that point.