Why socialist medicine is not the answer

[Nutz4sand]

Thanx Fabr. The sad part is thats just ONE story with him and there are tons of others with him alone and more with other folk.

Not to mention that bastards in charge of the plant pushing drugs. forcing cost up with BS overtime. The drug shipments they brought in to the plant were regular and several times the FBI and the DEA were called and told exact times and palces. Yet nothing was ever done. (on the take?)

Another funny fact. I started with Chrysler JUST before the merger with Daimler. When I started the OSHA guys all drove new Chrysler 300M's into the plant. Within a month after the merger they were all driving Mercedes. I sure it was just a coincidence.

The best part is I can show Obama how to fix Chrylser and GM in THREE days. Ford took no bailout money so I am proud of them ON THAT and say let them drive themselves.

But all Obama would have to do to the Chrysler and GM is take ALL the people he could ralley.

Have these people go into the plants (Preferrably all on the same day as to give no one much warning) and go up to ALL mangement personnel (floor level to the top dog) Demand them to recite there Job description and list. (List is of course thier daily activities) and PROVE they can do them. Over half of them do not know half of what they are supposed to be doing in thier job descriptions.  Fire those who cannot accomplish this. Those who are left will be able to run the plants efficiently without the bunglers in the way.     

[Punkur67]

My buddy worked at Mercedes for $20hr and they charged $125hr for shop rates. WTF!
My company is a mom and pop shop. Every owner of the company also works a 40hr week at the shop even with over 300 employies. Our journeyman rate is $36hr I make $42 cause I am a foreman. Funny thing is our bids are very close to the non union ones but they pay their workers pennies compared. Most workers in our trade that work non union make less than $20hr but their company charges the same.
We also go to 5 years of school at night after work to get the pay we do where the non union workers got to a one or two year ABC program. Trust me, I have had severial non union guy turned union work with or for me and you can tell by the work they produce. Lets just say they dont last long on jobs.

[BDKW1]

Trust me, I have had severial non union guy turned union work with or for me and you can tell by the work they produce. Lets just say they dont last long on jobs.

Funny, when I ran the machine shop I ended up firing every union guy that came to work there. I never saw such a bunch of lazy whiners in My life.
 
That being said, I'm now trying to get a cushy union job at San Onifre........
 
As for the health care industry, As long as we have malpractice lawyers and insurance company's, prices will be out of control.

[Boostinjdm]

Funny thing is our bids are very close to the non union ones but they pay their workers pennies compared. Most workers in our trade that work non union make less than $20hr but their company charges the same.

Non union companies can charge the same because the union is propping up the local rates.

[artie on edge]

Funny, when I ran the machine shop I ended up firing every union guy that came to work there. I never saw such a bunch of lazy whiners in My life.
 
That being said, I'm now trying to get a cushy union job at San Onifre........
 
As for the health care industry, As long as we have malpractice lawyers and insurance company's, prices will be out of control.

Finally some common sense in this thread.... the real root of MOST of our evils...imo...

[fabr]

At least many.Gov causes the rest.

[fabr]

What typically happens on a city,county,state,federal job and what will happen when we get OUR version of government provided health care.

[Islander]

What typically happens on a city,county,state,federal job and what will happen when we get OUR version of government provided health care.

maybe you just need to approve another version....I'd never go without health care, I've never waited more than a day to get an appointment with my family doc, and have never waited more then a few hours in an emergency, and I've been hospitalized more then a few times.  I shudder to think how much all my visits and appointments would have cost me in the USA, seeing as how I'm not exactly rolling in the money (the pennies hurt to much, and it's all I've got), I probably can't afford insurance.

[fabr]

We typically use massive waste as a stimulus.

[Islander]

So I've noticed :-\  Only those at the top think that trickle down economics works...

[LiveWire]

Off the top of my head, I think I pay $300 a month on top of what my employer pays for my health insurance. I think that is about $600. That is for my entire family.

In regards to the wait time:
At the doctors I go to, I usually only have to wait 15 minutes. I have not went back to ones that made me wait more. I had a hernia last year. It happened on a Sunday. I called a major hospital near my work for a referral. I wanted to go at lunch so as not to use up my time after work that I can spend with my family. I got a referral to a doctor who does multiple hernia surgeries a day. I got an appointment for the same day I called and waited less than 15 minutes after filling out the paperwork. I scheduled the surgery for 5 or 6 days later. I paid a $20 co pay for the whole thing as the follow up visit was not listed as an office visit, but part of the package I guess.

I have broke both my elbow and my hand on separate occasions within the last few years. Both times I went to an orthopedic surgeon rather than just a an MD. The hand happened on a Sunday and I went to the emergency room, then went to the OS on Monday (minimal wait). He re broke it to set it more to my liking rather than the ER doctor's 'acceptable limits', her words. There was no issue getting either the ER visit or having it all redone the next day paid for. For the elbow, I even had physical therapy, then occupational therapy. If I decide to, I can now have surgery on each and they would be paid for. The elbow really needs a new groove cut in it for the ulnar nerve (AKA funny bone) and the hand could stand to be broke again and a plate screwed to the bone. The elbow broke through the groove and is slightly offset causing me to always feel like I hit my funny bone. The hand is pretty much a bag of bones and you can't really align them well with a cast. Although much better than the ER doctor's set, I still have a kink in my hand that hurts badly when hit.

nut4sand, your numbers did not include anything for mechanical and design engineers or do you lump them in with those who do nothing? I wrote code for Ford Electronic Engine Control modules. How about me? I never played any golf.

When writing that code, I was making about $12 an hour, $25K a year salary. A friend that dropped out of college to join the union and worked in a factory used to call me periodically to let me know how much he was making. He would call me every year or so. Despite the years and money I spent in college, he liked to point out (not directly) he was still making more than me. My salary went up as I changed jobs about every 2 years or less back then. He made skilled trades. I did eventually pass him then he stopped calling. He would have only had to wait a bit though because the dot com fall out swept through my industry even to those not working for the companies directly involved. So without a union, I saw pay and benefit cuts. It seems all to often that blue collar people regard their work as what is important. They also seem to lump all white collar workers together as over paid paper pushers. The implication is that the white collar workers make more when most of the time, it is not true. There is a huge number of white collar people needed to run a car company that make less than the average union wage. I do try to buy American made products when possible, I bet you cannot even name the companies that are the worst for out sourcing their IT departments to India. But then again, I am not a real American 'worker' so that doesn't matter anyway does it? Then their are the people that rationalize buying a foreign car because it is assembled (they say made) in the US. They don't care that the profits go to a foreign country. 'That's just going into managements pockets'. Their not American 'workers' either. Who cares if their in a higher tax bracket therefore pay a higher tax rate. Obama can save us all by keeping the real American workers working and just increase taxes on those evil money people. Who cares if the evil money people start moving themselves and their companies to the Cayman Islands and Switzerland. Good riddens and Obama is already talking about making laws to tax companies based in the Cayman Islands. I'm not sure how he plans to enforce tax law in another country. Maybe he can send an army of salt water marsh mice over there. Then he can start lowering his now record level largest deficit in US history.

[fabr]

Off the top of my head, I think I pay $300 a month on top of what my employer pays for my health insurance. I think that is about $600. That is for my entire family.

In regards to the wait time:
At the doctors I go to, I usually only have to wait 15 minutes. I have not went back to ones that made me wait more. I had a hernia last year. It happened on a Sunday. I called a major hospital near my work for a referral. I wanted to go at lunch so as not to use up my time after work that I can spend with my family. I got a referral to a doctor who does multiple hernia surgeries a day. I got an appointment for the same day I called and waited less than 15 minutes after filling out the paperwork. I scheduled the surgery for 5 or 6 days later. I paid a $20 co pay for the whole thing as the follow up visit was not listed as an office visit, but part of the package I guess.

I have broke both my elbow and my hand on separate occasions within the last few years. Both times I went to an orthopedic surgeon rather than just a an MD. The hand happened on a Sunday and I went to the emergency room, then went to the OS on Monday (minimal wait). He re broke it to set it more to my liking rather than the ER doctor's 'acceptable limits', her words. There was no issue getting either the ER visit or having it all redone the next day paid for. For the elbow, I even had physical therapy, then occupational therapy. If I decide to, I can now have surgery on each and they would be paid for. The elbow really needs a new groove cut in it for the ulnar nerve (AKA funny bone) and the hand could stand to be broke again and a plate screwed to the bone. The elbow broke through the groove and is slightly offset causing me to always feel like I hit my funny bone. The hand is pretty much a bag of bones and you can't really align them well with a cast. Although much better than the ER doctor's set, I still have a kink in my hand that hurts badly when hit.

nut4sand, your numbers did not include anything for mechanical and design engineers or do you lump them in with those who do nothing? I wrote code for Ford Electronic Engine Control modules. How about me? I never played any golf.

When writing that code, I was making about $12 an hour, $25K a year salary. A friend that dropped out of college to join the union and worked in a factory used to call me periodically to let me know how much he was making. He would call me every year or so. Despite the years and money I spent in college, he liked to point out (not directly) he was still making more than me. My salary went up as I changed jobs about every 2 years or less back then. He made skilled trades. I did eventually pass him then he stopped calling. He would have only had to wait a bit though because the dot com fall out swept through my industry even to those not working for the companies directly involved. So without a union, I saw pay and benefit cuts. It seems all to often that blue collar people regard their work as what is important. They also seem to lump all white collar workers together as over paid paper pushers. The implication is that the white collar workers make more when most of the time, it is not true. There is a huge number of white collar people needed to run a car company that make less than the average union wage. I do try to buy American made products when possible, I bet you cannot even name the companies that are the worst for out sourcing their IT departments to India. But then again, I am not a real American 'worker' so that doesn't matter anyway does it? Then their are the people that rationalize buying a foreign car because it is assembled (they say made) in the US. They don't care that the profits go to a foreign country. 'That's just going into managements pockets'. Their not American 'workers' either. Who cares if their in a higher tax bracket therefore pay a higher tax rate. Obama can save us all by keeping the real American workers working and just increase taxes on those evil money people. Who cares if the evil money people start moving themselves and their companies to the Cayman Islands and Switzerland. Good riddens and Obama is already talking about making laws to tax companies based in the Cayman Islands. I'm not sure how he plans to enforce tax law in another country. Maybe he can send an army of salt water marsh mice over there. Then he can start lowering his now record level largest deficit in US history.

Very good point.
And anotherAmong a few more.

[Nutz4sand]

nut4sand, your numbers did not include anything for mechanical and design engineers or do you lump them in with those who do nothing? I wrote code for Ford Electronic Engine Control modules. How about me? I never played any golf.

If you read all my posts you would see I stated they NEED to go in an find out who knows why they were hired and what they are supposed to do and how to do it.  Those who cannot need to be relieved. I knew quite a few engineers who spent more paid time playing golf or at the strip club. Then they would come back to the plant and screw up what the few engineers we had who were decent were trying to do. We had one who spent half the day in the computer room on the interent WHILE we were calling him. Lines down on the floor and money wasting and he would be looking at stocks or hobbies or whatever. He still works for Chrysler. Makes 120,000 a year BASE. 

I would be VERY surprised to know that at that job or another you had somewhere you did not have a person who DID NOT belong there but was hired anyways. Cause they knew someone. But you had to do more than others to cover them.

If you have never been in that situation you are very lucky and rare indeed.

I do not believe all are bad. But far to many are. As I stated fire the bunglers and let those who know grab the wheel and steer the ship. 

I even feel that those that are trying and learning as they go deserve a chance. But with Chrysler and my friends who were at GM told me they had the same thing. Engineers and other mangement people whos dadies had gotten them thier jobs. But the people were dumber than a box of rocks. Yet they were earning over $100,000 a year BASE salary!   

[Punkur67]

Funny, when I ran the machine shop I ended up firing every union guy that came to work there. I never saw such a bunch of lazy whiners in My life.
 
That being said, I'm now trying to get a cushy union job at San Onifre........
 
As for the health care industry, As long as we have malpractice lawyers and insurance company's, prices will be out of control.

Thats funny, why werent they in the union still. Oh yea they couldnt hold a job in the union. There are many lazy pos workers in the union that give us a bad name but they work for the union rather than a company. They only work when a shop is desperate for workers no matter how worthless they are.
 
As for san onofre that place ruins workers. You need to have your tp inspected before you can wipe you ass. The powerhouse guy never make it on normal jobs.

[cleppla]

 
Back on topic..  Socialized medicine.. HELL YES! Bring it on..  You say it cant work?  Medicare works.

Why do I think we should have universal health care?   Other countries with universal health care, their citizens on average longer, everyone is covered, and is geared towards preventive maintenance.




If you disagree with the above.. Do you believe in a democracy?  Cause the majority (71%) of US citizens support a single payer option.