Why socialist medicine is not the answer

[LiveWire]

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596

All socialist medicine will do is make things worse for people who currently have insurance (like me). The average for everyone will be worse. It will just be equally crappy for everyone (except those with government buddies).

[SPEC]

It's got me scared shitless...
The Humira shot that I need for my spine is 1800 bux a month...
The shots,surgeries, and stuff for my arms was ungodly in cost...
Both shoulders are wore out...and have bursitis...socialist medicine...I fear would halt further trying to fix...I've heard both sides of the argument and seen the documentaries...But I really don't know if it is the answer
Some here (my friends) think it's a good thing...since as a taxpayer I've/we've already paid for it 10 times over and should get some benefit out of it where as I think the system will overload and break down...It didn't work for the Ruskies...But I'd like to hear from some of those who do live in countries that have it and how it works for them
If you guys wouldn't mind sharing

[trojan]

Livewire can you tell me why I can get a doctors visit as often as I like for $600 a year?
All surgery and hospital stays are included. Subsidised drugs - barely nothing is over $20.
Why is the US heath the most expensive in the world and covers proportionally the least number of people?

So be honest - how much do you pay for insurance AND how much do you pay if you have to use it? Can your insurance company turn around and drop you if they feel you have become too risky? How long do you wait to see a doctor?

Let me guess, you are comparing the best of private care which only the very few can afford(~1%), with the whole of public health..... there's that new definition of honesty again....

[fabr]

Where do think the money comes from to provide all this for just 600 bux a year?If you truly believe that 600 bux per person in your country will cover the cost of health care with YOUR money without more of YOUR money from some other source subsidizing the shortfall you are naive at best. As for waiting time here in the US.,you gotta be kidding and also uneducated to our reality. There is nearly no wait time.Health care here is basically immediate. Highly advanced things will of course be limited access. Things like lung,heart transplants and such.  WHat we NEED to do is stop the out of control inflation cost of health care that is far above the inflation rate or cost of living index. THAT is what we need .Private enterprise ,with proper but not oppressive oversight, is the only true answer.

[Voodoochikin04]

first... ive watched many shows that interveiw people from countrys that have socialized medicine.. NOONE seems to be left out, or hates the way it is..  EVERYONE seems to bag on the US healthcare system..   the government is already in the healthcare bussiness..  what about community clinics?  grant funded, which means tax dollars pay for the building, the staffs wages, they supplies, and the reduced cost to the people who go there.. the tax dollars that the business owned hospitals are paying, and the taxes you are paying, are going to these community clinics.. so how in the hell can people not think that the government is slowly slipping into the healthcare bussiness?     another note... those commercials about people from canada having to come to the united states just to recieve the care they need so they didnt die... is a bunch of horseshit..

i pay 400$ a month for my health insurance..  if i go to any local docs office or to any hospital.. i get to see a doctor.. of course i wait my turn in line..  but i do agree with master about the inflation rates of healthcare.. its ridiculous...

master---- private enterprise is slowly slipping for healthcare.. as i mentioned above with the community clinics..  it would be like the government putting up a lumber store next to yours, and selling at lower prices than yours..  using your tax dollars to fund the operation.  if you run out of money, you cant just stop paying your taxes or you lose everything.. if they run out, they riase your taxes and just print more money.  a quote from a government official speaking on tv. "private enterprise has had their chance.. now its our turn"

[Nutz4sand]

One problem I see with healthcare in the USA is hospitals CANNOT refuse treatment to anyone (I imagine a lot of places are like this but do not know. Some aint too I bet.)

Anyways. Hospitals here have to SUPER overcharge those WITH health insurance to cover the costs of treating those who come in with NO insurance and get treated for free. They will run Bogus tests that they make profit off of easy just to make the dime. Its easy for the doctors to justify this to the insurance companies and its good for the Docs paycheck security to boot.

So again those with jobs and insurance have to pay for free loaders.

Its one reason I see all the "cheap" labor that comes here as being VERY $$$$.  The area I am in near Silver Lake has yearly asparagus pickers (and other fruits/veggies) There are headstarts in this area that cost millions and only those pickers can send there kids to them but taxpayers all pick up the tab.  So the farmers get cheap labor at the taxpayers again. This last paragraph is a lil off topic yet it IS related to the issue above so close.  These people go to the local hospital and get treated and walk out without a worry of a bill most of the times. So others local get to fork over the loot. In the winter they head back south and I imagine those where they go then have to "foot the bill" for hospital visits there.

If they gonna stay. We should make-em pay! 

Heck if you go into a hospital away from where you live with some simple fake ID and ONLY speak the language of what you look like you come from (No english) you can likely get free treatment then walk away. I bet this has happened even more than we know.

[fabr]

One problem I see with healthcare in the USA is hospitals CANNOT refuse treatment to anyone (I imagine a lot of places are like this but do not know. Some aint too I bet.)

Anyways. Hospitals here have to SUPER overcharge those WITH health insurance to cover the costs of treating those who come in with NO insurance and get treated for free. They will run Bogus tests that they make profit off of easy just to make the dime. Its easy for the doctors to justify this to the insurance companies and its good for the Docs paycheck security to boot.

So again those with jobs and insurance have to pay for free loaders.

Its one reason I see all the "cheap" labor that comes here as being VERY $$$$.  The area I am in near Silver Lake has yearly asparagus pickers (and other fruits/veggies) There are headstarts in this area that cost millions and only those pickers can send there kids to them but taxpayers all pick up the tab.  So the farmers get cheap labor at the taxpayers again. This last paragraph is a lil off topic yet it IS related to the issue above so close.  These people go to the local hospital and get treated and walk out without a worry of a bill most of the times. So others local get to fork over the loot. In the winter they head back south and I imagine those where they go then have to "foot the bill" for hospital visits there.

If they gonna stay. We should make-em pay! 

Heck if you go into a hospital away from where you live with some simple fake ID and ONLY speak the language of what you look like you come from (No english) you can likely get free treatment then walk away. I bet this has happened even more than we know.

BINGO!!!!!! We have a winner. I know 2 people very well that atre perfect examples. One works for me and refuses to receive health insurance. Wanna know why? 4 sepaeate times he has had major health care needs. Last time he racked up obver 200,000 bux in costs. The hospital told him he needed to set up a payment plan.He says,I don't have any more than 50 bux a week I can pay-towards 200K  bill. They tell him that will be OK till thwe end of the year and then they will just write it off and he will be clear. Think about that,do the math. The other guy had a similar thing but worked out that allowed him to pay in one lump sum only 10% against a 150,ooo bux bill  and he is now paid in full. I ,on the other hand with copay insurance would have been required at least 20% of the bill out of my pocket  along with the insurance pay.  The health care system here is not the problem .Its the gonernments will to let the industry self destruct so they can take it over ,and ultimately ruin, our system. Nutz is right.

[Voodoochikin04]

our local hospital giant WAY over charges for legitimate people with health coverage.. i went in once after an accident, didnt have insurance at the time. the doc did a few simple things and then said if i had insurance, that he would run me through the mill.. but since i dont he would do the things i could afford..  i know several people that racked up huge bills there and then set up the cheap payment plan, which was taken care of at the end of the year... its ridiculous...

[fabr]

Sure is.

[trojan]

\
As for waiting time here in the US.,you gotta be kidding and also uneducated to our reality. There is nearly no wait time.Health care here is basically immediate.

That may be so for the insured population but I know its not the same for the others who's ONLY access is through the emergency room at a hospital (BTW that's the MOST expensive way to do healthcare).. of course they're poor, they don't count

i pay 400$ a month for my health insurance..  if i go to any local docs office or to any hospital.. i get to see a doctor.. of course i wait my turn in line.. 

So Fab, is he lieing or you?

WHat we NEED to do is stop the out of control inflation cost of health care that is far above the inflation rate or cost of living index. THAT is what we need .Private enterprise ,with proper but not oppressive oversight, is the only true answer.

You've got that NOW.... and you wonder why I think you're foolish?

Medical decisions SHOULD be made between you and your doctor - NO ONE ELSE!!!! and certainly not only by an insurance company... actually foolish doesn't cover it in the least.

[fabr]

If you don't stop throwing out insults with your replies no one is going to take a thing you say as serious-just  inflammatory and not worthy of reply or reflection. So ,for now, I' have nothing more to say to your insults.

[trojan]

whatever......

[trojan]

So Fab, is he lieing or you?

I'll take it it's you then

[Voodoochikin04]

what was i lieing about?  thats what i pay...  anytime i go to the doctor you sit in a waiting room.. the people who came before you to see the same doctor as you are ahead of you in line.. doesnt matter if they have no insurance or if they pay 10,000$ a month... first in line goes..  thats if you called and made an appointment, which can be set right after you call...  if its an emergency, you go to the emergency room.. most seriously hurt people go first..  unless its life threatening, then no matter how many people are waiting.. you get in right away..      atleast thats the way it is here in nebraska..

of course thats extremely expsensive for emergency room visits.. 

[trojan]

Not you VooDoo, you were brave and honourable enough to contribute.
Fab is being intellectually dishonest and then getting all pissy about it when called out... for shame!

For the record Fab, NEVER have you or any of the right wing ranters made me think about anything I hadn't thought about before.