WTF??

[Engineer]

I'm not sure how this ended up here, but here's another asshole's opinion-

The bible (and any other book on this planet) is 100% man made. 

Global warming is a natural phenomenon (climatology=pseudo scientific obsevation and assumptions) increased and multiplied by levels of green house gases in the atmoshpere (physics=much harder to argue with).  It just so happens that we have been pumping out greenhouse gases  for tens of thousands of years, but exponentially more so in the last 200.  To say that it is "man made" is borderline insane, but affected by man, that is an easy one, yes.  Of course it's not the end of the world, just another climate shift.  It has happened many times in the long, long history of our living planet.  Some species will adapt, evolve,  and thrive, and others will become extinct.

If any one can show me ANY kind of evidence that CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas I would be willing to reassess my opinion.  It is an inherent physical characteristic that can't be argued, so good luck.

Also, I would like to see or hear "evidence" that the Earth is 10k years old. 

Please don't just link to a creationist site.  Been there read that.

Hey T8er,  Yummi was asking that due to the long discussion that we had here:

http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=736.0

I don't want to write it all again, so you might take a look there for some of the opinions.

You seem realistic in your view of Global Warming.  I believe in science and of course I would agree with CO2 being a greenhouse gas.  I don't understand how that is the issue.  If you would check up on the recent science, and not take your information from Al Gore and CBS and NPR then you would know that there has been a cooling trend for the last 11 years.  Is there climate change........  Yes, it's cyclic.  Do we produce CO2 by burning fossil fuels?  Yes.  Does that give the UN and other governments the right to tax us to ruin based on our emmisions, and destroy our economy for the sake of "Being Green"?  The truth is our emmisions are a blip on the radar screen compared to a volcanic eruption or other natural phenomenon and the hysteria in the media over global warming is a tool to play on the weak minded and uninformed, and put them in bondage to the saviors in the government.

The evidence is all around us.  The interesting thing is we all have the same evidence to look at, it just depends how you want to interpert it.  Many in the linked discussion proved that they don't believe in scientific principals and discovery so the discussion became moot.  Possibly you are interested in evidence rather than agreement to bolster your own world view.......  And I won't be posting any links.  The Athiest side does that to some blah blah blah proffesor who is saying nothing and always pointing to others for the "real" evidence.  I have spent to many hours listening to that crap.

If you make it through that thead please post your opinions.  I would love to hear them.

Edit: Thanks Yummi........

[Nutz4sand]

If you would check up on the recent science, and not take your information from Al Gore and CBS and NPR then you would know that there has been a cooling trend for the last 11 years.

I ask this for your opinion on this. Just looking for more possible insight to what may be happening.

Your above quote Engineer states a cooling cycle for the last 11 years. In the last 11 or so years (or more) the ice caps have been shrinking. I due to many things I have seen tend to believe that warmer temps elsewhere on the planet make massive amounts of air rise where its warmer and draw the cold air from the polar regions and this is causing the cooling trend. But once there is no more massive ice packs then whats going to happen? There will be nothing left to keep us cool.   

Please feel free to shoot any holes in this you can. Interested in what others think about it.   

[Engineer]

I ask this for your opinion on this. Just looking for more possible insight to what may be happening.

Your above quote Engineer states a cooling cycle for the last 11 years. In the last 11 or so years (or more) the ice caps have been shrinking. I due to many things I have seen tend to believe that warmer temps elsewhere on the planet make massive amounts of air rise where its warmer and draw the cold air from the polar regions and this is causing the cooling trend. But once there is no more massive ice packs then whats going to happen? There will be nothing left to keep us cool.   

Please feel free to shoot any holes in this you can. Interested in what others think about it.

Nutz,

I think that Ice around the world is melting.  When did that start?

There is a place called "Glacier National Park", I don't remember what state it is in.  There is almost no glacial ice left there.  Pictures from 100 years ago show the place covered with ice everywhere.  Same in Alaska "Glacier Bay".  Al Gore showed in his movie how much this glacier had melted in the last decade.  But pictures from 100 years ago show that the melting in the last 10 years is typical of the melting over the last 100 years.  So I would agree that the ice is and has been melting for the last hundred years, and I would suppose (to bad we don't have pictures) that it has been slowly melting off for hundred's or thousands of years.  Today we just happen to be witnessing the time when some of these glaciers are finally gone.

So if, at the current temperatures we are seeing a melting trend at the poles and in glacial ice, and this ice is in fact what is keeping us cool, then what caused the ice to form to begin with, and what mean temperature would be required to make that ice reform?

Even their evidence says the mean temperature change over the last hundred years is less than one degree.  So how cool do we want to try and make it?

If we bankrupt all of the nations in the world, (wouldn't take much at this point) we couldn't change the mean temperature by 1 degree.  IMO the hysteria over global warming is just a political move to consolidate power, and transfer wealth.  Climate change is occuring, and we don't have any power over it.

In the 70's the science community thought that a new ice age was moving in.  They even proposed spreading soot on the ice caps to trap heat and get them to melt. 

I guess in response to the warm air, cool air theory, I would have to say that we have seen warming and cooling trends over the last hundred years, and yet the ice has been melting during the whole period.  So how is it that we declare that no more ice should melt, and that all climate change should stop and temperatures should forever stay at what they happen to be today.  Do we have this power? 

[fabr]

We are gods! Don't you know anything? MAN is all powerful!!!! 

[Nutz4sand]

Dunno how much power we have to change it. Sometimes what I believe certain people have for power amazes me. 

I agree that the climate would be changing no matter if man were here or not.  But the question is will anyone beside those in underground bunkers be able to survive the next big one?

What sets off a big one? At a certain point does the earth start rapidly "fixing itself" (screw the living things save the planet type of fix)

I have always been told that the Great lakes were carved out by glaciers pushing down from the north and that at on time ice was a mile thick above Michigan. It paints a awesome picture but did it really happen that way?

[fabr]

I don't believe man has any real idea of the far past history and it is all conjecture.

[Engineer]

Dunno how much power we have to change it. Sometimes what I believe certain people have for power amazes me. 

I agree that the climate would be changing no matter if man were here or not.  But the question is will anyone beside those in underground bunkers be able to survive the next big one?

What sets off a big one? At a certain point does the earth start rapidly "fixing itself" (screw the living things save the planet type of fix)

I have always been told that the Great lakes were carved out by glaciers pushing down from the north and that at on time ice was a mile thick above Michigan. It paints a awesome picture but did it really happen that way?

I don't know of any actual evidence that the "The day after tomorrow" model of rapid climate change ever happened.  That being said, shit happens, and things change.  If the volcanoes in yellowstone go off in a big way, it won't be a matter of declaring a state of emergency, and fixing it.  The survivors may have to move, our agricultural base could be destroyed, permanently.  We would survive or not.  We aren't in charge.  When was the last big volcano?  Krakatoa in 1883.  St. Helens was nothing compared to some of the big ones that there are evidence of.  How long have we been recording temperatures accurately? 

That is what bugs me about the global warming hysteria.  We have no power over it, and the truth is the scientists don't know much "for sure".

I don't believe man has any real idea of the far past history and it is all conjecture.

I agree to a certain extent.  However, I believe that you can look at evidence, and come to conclusions about some things.

Fabr doesn't believe that water has always flowed downhill..........  :P

[fabr]

NOPE.