DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
General Discussion => The Pit Stop => Topic started by: 455bird on January 28, 2009, 03:15:25 AM
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And of course the dodges get 30 MPG too.
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My 07 dually duramax gets a verified average MPG of 11.9 AND that milage includes approx 1/2 of those miles are pulling 20+K pounds over the course of 40+K miles. If you're going by that dash indicated MPG you are not seeing the real MPG of the truck. OF course a big ol'Ford with talltires gets 21 MPG. Sure it does/did. I have dodge cummins friends that claim 20-30 MPG. Of course they stop to refuel each time I do so WTF???? One of us is wrong about the mileage we get.
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LOL!!! then who cares what the milage is? You SAVED 20 K and you can't stand the milage???? Do some math.
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I just rechecked I'm getting 12.16 .
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Is yours a 07 or 07.5 with the new lmm motor? And yes my ford did get that mpg going down the road not towing but I had it chipped and had a aftermarket exhaust
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Exact same thing when i went from 05 dodge to 07 dodge. once the warrenty is up - time to pull the catalyst chamber and let her breath a bit more.
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Assume 100,000 miles of use @ 12 MPG(8,333 gals) compared to 100,000 miles @ 21 MPG(4,762 gallons).A 3,571 gallon difference. 3,571 gallons at an average price per gallon of say 2.50 gallon.That's 8,927.50 bux.You're STILL ahead by $11072.50. What's the beef????
Even at 4.50 a gallon you're still ahead at 16,069.50 by $3930.50.
I admit the duramax's get lesser MPG than the dodge or fords but not THAT much difference.
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Mines an 07. My 02 got 15.5 average.
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My Brother had a '99 F250 and it got 21 when not towing. It was one of the main reasons I bought my '02 Excursion. The Excursion is heavier and less aerodynamic than the truck. Yes it is possible to be worse, the air flowing off the top of the cab of a truck does form somewhat of a tear drop with the bed. The best I got was 19. I have now chipped it and added an exhaust. I never really got a chance to check it not pulling a trailer though. When I finally did, my wife reset the trip guage on me when she put $10 of fuel in. The overhead was reading 22, but it is not accurate. I have a couple other mods lined up, but not done. I picked up a regulator to put inline with the map sensor so I can go over 20psi without the computer cutting fuel. I will be removing the butterfly in the exhaust and opening up the housing there. I am considering ceramic coating the insides of both the turbine and compressor housings, the turbine to keep the heat in the exhaust and the compressor housing to keep what heat is in the housing out of the intake charge. I have not heard of anyone doing that, but it seems like a good idea to me.
The bugs were supposed to have been worked out of the 6.0, but I would still rather have my 7.3. The 6.4 has a less efficient combustion chamber design resulting in more unburnt fuel. That in itself lowers mileage. On top of that, it causes the regen cycle to run more often which burns additional fuel.
I am very interested to see what the new Ford built (vs. Navistar) 6.7 will be like. I have heard 800 ft. lbs. of torque. It will have a ground up designed 6 speed behind it that is significantly larger in physical size over the 4R100/5R110 behind the current engine. Basically they stopped tweaking it a little stronger then detuning the engine to what the trans can handle and went with a bigger box.
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Master, I agree with the mileage, my 03 gets over 11mpg pulling my 17ish K lbs 5th wheel and I could easily pull another one behind it!! I love my truck and its got 140K miles on it too! These are actual numbers not off the dash, and believe me the Ford he got rid of would NEVER pull as much as the D-max! My buddy has a F350 and my 3/4 ton wanted 80MPH when his would BARELY do 45 in a head wind up a 3% grade pulling a much lighter 5th!
On a different note, did you gear the new truck, cuz if you didn't it will still pull well, it just won't get the same mileage!
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Most chassis cab combos are lower geared from the factory.Good call whip!
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Seriously check the gearing, with 35's you better AT LEAST have the 4.10 gear or you are throwing a ton of MPG out, my brother has 3.73's and he gets like 2-3 mpg less than me and he is towing a 7000lb BABY trailer and I have the beast!
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I have to say that my 1996 S-10 4x4 4.3L got better mileage than my '06 Tacoma TRD 4.0L. The best tank yet was right at 16 mpg. The S10 was closer to 20. I don't do much towing so I lean more to the little trucks, but either way I expected better from the Yota. There is no comparing them off road though. The Toy wins.
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I have to say that my 1996 S-10 4x4 4.3L got better mileage than my '06 Tacoma TRD 4.0L. The best tank yet was right at 16 mpg. The S10 was closer to 20. I don't do much towing so I lean more to the little trucks, but either way I expected better from the Yota. There is no comparing them off road though. The Toy wins.
I guess you don't care that the bed sides flex so much that they beat the piss out of edges of the tail gate.
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yeah, my uncle showed me that. My chevy won't budge, but grab a yota an pull on the side while pushing the tailgate. :u
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Yeah I guess I should have tried that when I test drove it. My last toy went 240k without me noticing the flex in the bed. The chevy was hammered though, cracked control arms, bad wheel bearings, 4x4 didn't work due to the front diff exploding under power for the second time, tranny slipping, electrical issues in the dash, and the driver side window had to be pushed up and down by hand(pushed, not cranked). The driver door sagged about 3/4" so that the door would just slam into the frame without latching. Speaking of the tailgate, on the chev the latch was such a POS, after it broke I redesigned and built it better than chevy did originally, in my basement with a harbor freight flux welder. In 9 years, I put 100k of the 120k it had on it and I couldn't justify buying another one. I looked at the Colorado but liked the Tacoma. Quick some one with Jap motor in their buggy tell me how Un-Amercan I am. ::)
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I'm not the kind of guy who hangs a pair of testicles from the back of his truck, so I doubt that much piss, or any other bodily fluid will be beaten out of it. Just messin' with ya btw. Me and my bro give each other a lot of shit over our rides, all in good fun. He's an American so he drives a Dodge. Seriously though, I read at least 10 reviews and comparisons, and drove comparable trucks, to make my own comparison. The Tacoma satisfied my particular wants and needs better than the others I looked at.
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I hope you like rice.
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Quick some one with Jap motor in their buggy tell me how Un-Amercan I am. ::)
LOL! Where is Whiplash when you need him? He just went Ecotec! He could say something, or DS but he says he's going back Jap next time. So your right we can all just zip it! :-X
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I don't really care what someone drives. I drove my s10 for a long time. Even with all the issues (many from lack of maintenance or repair) I had a hard time getting rid of it. I had freinds begging me for years to get rid of it. If I needed to tow a heavy load, I would have bought an American truck for sure. That is what they do well. But I just don't need to tow more than 6500lbs. If my buggy weighs more than 4000 on the trailer I would be surprised.
Has someone here tried the bed flex test on a Colorado? I am curious how that great piece of American Engineering faired in that all important test of how well a truck performs.
Oh yeah Masterfabr, I love rice! I love it with beans and Chili Verde, and I love it with raw fish and wasabi.
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::)
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t8r,since American engineering sux I hope you won't cry too much when the things YOU build are made overseas more cheaply. Don't think it will happen? Just keep believing that buying from overseas is a good thing for your future and wait..
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Nobody said it sucks. I am sincerely curious how it is in comparison. I know what I make is made overseas more cheaply. I can show you websites that have my company's actual photos, represented by manufacturers based here but building in the Phillipines. That is business. Can they recreate our products exactly? No. Do most customers care? No. Our company works hard to produce new designs, so that we can sell them before they get ripped off. It is a business model to keep us ahead of or on par with competitors, so that we don't have to fly our private jets to Washington with our hands out for taxpayer money.
How many of the components that are assembled here in a GM plant, were made here. In this global economy it is laughable to think that any thing you buy is really made here. Go ahead and read the standards for the "Made In The USA" label. This is from the Federal Trade Commission.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm)
You may be surprised at what can be called a Domestic product.
If I bought my truck from a local used car dealer, how much of that goes overseas?
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No one is arguing what you say.The point is that WE have to change the IDEA that it is OK to support other countries instead of ourselves first.
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I agree 100%. Maybe for different reasons, but I agree. Buy local first. But even when you buy local, you support other countries. Go as basic as you can think- Food. Join a co-op, get your groceries from a local farmer, do some research, I'm sure you could find one near your home. But wait, where did the diesel in their tractor come from? Or where did the ignition switch in that tractor come from? Or who picked that apple and did they have their paperwork in order?
We live in a global society. That is something we can't argue about.
The better idea to change is the We vs. them. We are all we. No matter what side of what imaginary line we may live on. Could any one actually go through 1 day without using anything from another country? Not in our society.
I know that I am asking a lot. It would take more change than any president could ever bring on. It would be a shift of the entire collective consciousness that is human kind. Until that day, I won't feel bad for driving a Yota. ;)
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All I can do is shake my head my man.
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Name an unique innovation the US car industry has produced, since the 70's - when the problem was first presented to the global car industry....
US "trucks" tow great - no argument. What else do US cars do that a jap/euopean car cannot out class them at?
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I really want to see Honda build a v8 and put it in a fullsize truck....
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Name an unique innovation the US car industry has produced, since the 70's - when the problem was first presented to the global car industry....
US "trucks" tow great - no argument. What else do US cars do that a jap/euopean car cannot out class them at?
That's a nice leading statement(bait ::) but the ball is in your court .Please detail just what the jap/european cars do that US cars don't. Fly? ;D
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1 thing? Easy. Cost more. ;D Or you could look at safety features, clean deisel technology, or just the high quality of the finished product.
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The foreign stuff may seem to have less mechanical issues but from my line of work I can definately say that they go really cheap on all of their interior stuff. When I get in a truck, I want it to feel like a truck. I don't want it to feel like a Honda Civic with a lift kit. ;D
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People that insist on supporting others in favor of their own neighbors and countrymen are IMO "less than wise" about the future of their own country.I'd make the same arguement if I was a Japanese citizen living in Japan and saw my neighbors buying American made cars. In other words ,IMO only again, if you don't support your own country first you're an unpatriotic citizen. I buy foreign products when I HAVE to. Not many superbikes made in the US so I HAVE to buy something else. The Wal-mart mentality IS the problem here in the US and elsewhere . AS long as it costs ME less I don't care what impact it has on ALL of the US (insert whatever country you wish here)economy and my future well being. Think about it guys,if you DON"T support your own there will not be a "your own" anymore.
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That's a nice leading statement(bait ::) but the ball is in your court .Please detail just what the jap/european cars do that US cars don't. Fly? ;D
Everything.... Cornering, stopping, going, reliability......
That's not to say a range rover can't keep up with the best of them (better in most cases) at towing up to 3000kg.
People that insist on supporting others in favor of their own neighbors and countrymen are IMO "less than wise" about the future of their own country.I'd make the same arguement if I was a Japanese citizen living in Japan and saw my neighbors buying American made cars. In other words ,IMO only again, if you don't support your own country first you're an unpatriotic citizen. I buy foreign products when I HAVE to. Not many superbikes made in the US so I HAVE to buy something else. The Wal-mart mentality IS the problem here in the US and elsewhere . AS long as it costs ME less I don't care what impact it has on ALL of the US (insert whatever country you wish here)economy and my future well being. Think about it guys,if you DON"T support your own there will not be a "your own" anymore.
I agree with the sentiment BUT what good does it do to support an industry that willfully keeps it's developments to a minimum.
Appreciate the US car industry is basically solely responsible for the poor global reputation of US engineering as a whole... sad but true.
I think the US car industry needs to "grow up" and produce a competitive product. No it's the union's fault. They got wind of the scam the execs were on and blackmailed them for their share (fair or not). Don't just blame the piss poor work ethic, the designs suck balls in all but a few rare cases. WTF - Big FWD cars? WTF - the Buick V6 motor that's actually an 8 with 2 cylinders lopped off? what's the best pump fuel you get? is there a US AWD road car?
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::) ::) You can believe that crap if you wish and it will be fruitless to argue with you but here goes............ The US car makers make, in general ,very good cars.You can say what you want about US automakers product and what you just said was true 20-30 years ago.Come into the present sir.
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I was looking at a pontiac G8 and 52 percent of the parts come from Australia. Infact, the car is finished there.
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I buy local first. Farmers market? You betcha. Farm co-op? Damn right. Local coffee roaster over starbucks? WTF is starbucks!?? Olive garden or Lugano's. That one's not even a question. I don't care if it costs more or not. I wish every dollar I spent stayed right here in the county I live in. That's right county, not country. If I could get everything I need within 100 miles, trust me I would. It's not only the idea of keeping the local economy strong, but also reducing the embedded energy cost of transportation. When a local isn't able to provide me with the goods or services I require, then I go elsewhere. If the farmers market had a poor selection of lower quality produce, I would end up at the grocery store that week.
Fabr, I am with you on the walmart mentality. That does not really apply completely here though. I didn't buy the lowest price vehicle. I bought the one that was the most capable, and suited my needs better. Again, I bought my toy from a local used car dealer. So, how much of that goes overseas?
Oh yeah, Crysler makes an AWD 300, and Charger, the Ford 500 can be AWD as well.
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Maybe we're more on the same page than I thought! ;D 8) 8)
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The US auto manufacturers build what US consumers will buy. It isn't until recently that Americans wanted to pay extra to get AWD. Now that they are, you can get a Ford 500/Taurus and the Fuzion with it. I'm sure there are others. One of the most recent new technologies is auto shifted dual clutch lay shaft transmissions such as the VW direct shift. The dual clutch in the VW which is key to the system is made by Borg Warner. Ford could have used the system in the same time line, but shift feel is still like a manual. The average American does not want to feel their car shift. Ford is releasing a car with a similar system, but went to great efforts to get NVH (noise vibration and harshness) down to Ford acceptable levels.
People say how the American car companies only sell large SUVs as if the consumer is being forced to buy them. No one was buying the smaller cars when they did make them. My '84 Escort Diesel was bought brand new off the lot in '86 at a loss to the dealer. It got 62mpg. It had 144K on it when I sold it. '86 was the last year since no one was buying them. There was an Escort, Tempo and Ranger diesel. All the car companies have around 3.5 year development cycle for a new car. Gas prices were only just starting to go up 3.5 years ago and people were still buying SUVs and not small cars. Their adaptation to change in demand is only starting to be seen with the 2009 models and won't kick in fully until the 2010s. If Ford releases the diesel version of the Fiesta to the US that is sold in Europe, I will buy one. I doubt it will happen though as there still is not enough demand here to justify tooling up to build them here and it is too expensive to import.
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Maybe we're more on the same page than I thought! ;D 8) 8)
I think that's "truer" for us all.... more often than not ;)
thanks T8, it was an honest question.
plk, they're made to US designs and OZ car manufacturing processes are hampered (in the main) by being subsidiaries of GM and Ford.... garbage in - garbage out. An Oz made jap car is not as reliable as a jap made one and our industry is in the toilet, but still floating on the surface - fancy that ;)
::) ::) You can believe that crap if you wish and it will be fruitless to argue with you but here goes............
So the fuel then... What's the highest octane you can buy at the pump?.... what about Japan?
The US car makers make, in general ,very good cars.You can say what you want about US automakers product and what you just said was true 20-30 years ago.Come into the present sir.
I counter with the previously mentioned Buick V6 ::) ::) ::)
How many cars with "push rod" engines sell as new today?
Why is that even a relevant question?
The US auto manufacturers build what US consumers will buy.
I agree again with the wall mart sentiment BUT how many "informed" consumers are there? Marketing (as in "don't step in that marketing") and it's greatest vice "fashion" is what drives what sheeple buy.
My '84 Escort Diesel was bought brand new off the lot in '86 at a loss to the dealer. It got 62mpg. It had 144K on it when I sold it.
Nice. The old dear got a diesel golf in '79.... what a beawdy! had more than 1.5mil km on it when she got the passat diesel wagon... another ripper.
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:t :t :t ff: ff: gg: gg: gg:
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You know Wal-Mart is a US company right? :t
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Based in china in reality.
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If you say so.....
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MMM
How about not so new ;D
I get around 20 mpg with this beauty...Even when I rail on it... I'm hoping for it to be the last whole truck I buy
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Nice! I got 10 years of service out of my last one, maybe I'll get 20 out of this one.
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I've owned about 15 of these old fooker's...Drove em'all like I hated them
This one only had 95,000 miles on it when I bought it...And I definately drive this on like I hate it...
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I counter with the previously mentioned Buick V6 ::) ::) ::)
How many cars with "push rod" engines sell as new today?
Why is that even a relevant question?
Why is "push rod" such a bad thing? As a function of size thy are remarkably compact and make oddles of power given their weight / dimensions.
That something is old does NOT make it obsolete - look at mastr?
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That something is old does NOT make it obsolete - look at mastr? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ancient maybe but obsolete? Naaaaaa. This overhead cam snobbery is just nonsense.
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No one is arguing what you say.The point is that WE have to change the IDEA that it is OK to support other countries instead of ourselves first.
On this topic...
News on the TV today is that for the first time, China has outdone the US for the first time in auto sales.
I, personally, buy American when I can. However, I am not going to buy a POS just because it says Ford/Chev/Dodge on it. Read Consumer Reports--over half of the "cars to avoid" due to poor reliability are "American" vehicles. Dodge has great looking styling, but they are almost always the most common name on the list! I believe the big three are "once great" companies, and if they don't catch up to Japan soon, they'll be memories. They are on the fast track to extinction, and the folks who worked there during their decline are pissing and moaning about their retirement (which is far larger than the average US income) being threatened. Pretty sick. Drive a company into the ground and then get billions from the hardworking taxpayers. There is a reason Europeans move to the USA, but not the other way around--and it's because we are LESS socialistic than Europe. It shouldn't be a goal to reach!!!
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Only thing that drove the Big 3 into the ground was the fricken fickle US consumers. Let the price of gas go up and overnite they want gas guzzlers but let the price drop and they want the big cars again overnite.It can't be done that fast.The smaller car makers were just lucky that the price didn't drop to rediculouusly LOW prices anfd they'd be in the same predicament. Who the hell was making any big vehicles but the Big 3???????? Sure as hell wasn't anyone else. They were serving the market to its' mfullest need and were doing well. Now if you want to talk about the overinflated pension packages that the labor unions accomplished in getting in place and the absolute stupidity of the company management being too pussy to say NO to their demands fine but to say that US cars are junk is just plain BS.
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...to say that US cars are junk is just plain BS.
Not ALL US cars are junk, but on average, they are nowhere NEAR as reliable as a Toyota or Honda. Those two mfr's are the TOP 5 in reliability (Scion, Acura, Honda, Toyota, and Lexus--in that order). The FIRST American company is Lincoln, at 11th... BELOW KIA!!!! The first GM is Buik, at 18th! (Still below 3 Ford companies.) Dodge is 30th, out of 34 companies in reliability. To me, that's JUNK. We should be LEADERS, not free-loaders, in the automotive industry.
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Yumster, that's the ONLY thing going for a push rod engine..... But considering the amount of space available under the hood of EVERY push rod production installation makes a mockery of your premise....?
Fab, I LOVE old school iron.... there's nothing NEW about OHC - they were in production cars EVEN before you were born... I know there's some contention you were born before horses were invented.... Don't tell me I have to explain the difference between mechanical efficiency and human passion to you.... Do I? Or are you going to be the poster boy for "age does not necessarily imply wisdom"?
Tenja ;)
Juts to qualify (I have no idea what a Scion is) an Acura actually IS a Honda and a Lexus actually IS a Toyota.... which makes the point you were making all that more (4/5) stronger ;)
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In my personal experience. Dodge is junk, period, cars and trucks. ;) GM I have had pretty good luck with, and I don't have much experience with Ford. The only import I ever owned, Toy truck was OK. ;D
Does that help?
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I'm gonna jump in here
And SWIM WITH THE SHARKS ABIT
I'm a old school iron fan I'll Drive 68 to 72 chevy trucks as long as I can find or fabricate parts for them...Gimme an HEI and a ''tunable carb'' and I'm A happy camper...I have been racing OHC motors since my teen years...Iron duke 151 chevys...2.3 L. ford pinto motors...I even have a TRACK CHAMPIONSHIP with 1.6 liter chevette motor, Racing against 2.3 powered mustangs...Push rod or overhead cam what in the hell is the real difference??? as long as the valves open and shut when they are supposed to realiably who really gives a shit where the fookin cam is...
I/we have a couple of GEO's You guys have seen what I do to my poor little tracker...AWESOME LITTLE TRUCK...Barb drives a METRO RAGTOP 85 mph for 130 miles a day for the last 180,000 miles of it's life on that 3 banger...ya we rebuilt the head once, and put a timing belt in it...But is realible...My old chevy trucks have never let me down so to speak...unless just plain drove into the ground...The big 3 are in trouble for acouple of reasons...1 is the unions...1 is greed...another that alot don't stop to think about is the EPA/OSHA...
just my 2 cents worth
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Romantically... in my opinion, Dodge ruleZ!!!!!!
Intellectually (ie: from an engineering perspective) they don't even rate.......
eg: the bestest 3 Fords (opinion!) are NOT actually Fords at all..... RS200, Cobra, GT40.
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::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) to all of the above. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Not ALL US cars are junk, but on average, they are nowhere NEAR as reliable as a Toyota or Honda. Those two mfr's are the TOP 5 in reliability (Scion, Acura, Honda, Toyota, and Lexus--in that order). The FIRST American company is Lincoln, at 11th... BELOW KIA!!!! The first GM is Buik, at 18th! (Still below 3 Ford companies.) Dodge is 30th, out of 34 companies in reliability. To me, that's JUNK. We should be LEADERS, not free-loaders, in the automotive industry.
Ford had the highest ratings in initial vehicle quality in 5 out of 19 categories for 2007 model year. GM had 3 and Honda had 2.
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Possibly discussing vehicle preferences should go the way of Politics and Religion.........
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Well said Engineer ;)
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213,000 on my 95 buick and it's still going... My dad's 73 chev is still going strong too. It's driven pretty much everyday. I can't tell you how many times the odometer has tripped over.
My cousin used his dad's work truck for a while to go to work until he got an FJ. It had 402,000 miles. If that isn't reliable, you have problems. Only thing replaced was the alternator.
I think most of the reliability is based on maitenance.
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I think most of the reliability is based on maitenance.
I notice the people at work who drive foreign cars seem to always have stuff replaced when the car is in for 'maintenance'. The dealer tells them something is bad and they get it replaced. Some have these deals where they pay so much every month regardless and any worn out or near worn out wearable item gets replaced whenever they take the car in. I'm not saying it is bad to replace stuff before it breaks. It does however affect those people's opinions of reliability. A tie rod ends replaced while getting the oil change does not seem to be regarded as affecting the reliability of the car in the opinion of the owner. A clacking sound or loose steering does. I think US car dealers should take a look at the foreign car dealer strategy.
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Romantically... in my opinion, Dodge ruleZ!!!!!!
Intellectually (ie: from an engineering perspective) they don't even rate.......
eg: the bestest 3 Fords (opinion!) are NOT actually Fords at all..... RS200, Cobra, GT40.
AAAAAHHHHHHH
CAROLL SHELBY BABIES
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Possibly discussing vehicle preferences should go the way of Politics and Religion.........
Why? If we cant discuss cars on a site devoted to,well, cars, what good is it? Next thing you're gonna do is push for a higher restraint of boobie pictures - that's right - you will be a push up! :laugh:
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:m :n :s :n :r :m
Just for you E-farmer :o
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Livewire, that probably would improve reliability in the eyes of the consumer, but also at a higher cost.
I do all the maintenance on my vehicles, and have yet to have one fail on me (Besides a electrical problem in my pickup. The pickup sensor for the HEI died). Personally, I think taking your car to a dealership is a joke. The wheel bearings just went out in our 2002 buick. 102,000 miles, WTF?? Anyways, 250 dollars later, and a couple hours, they were replaced (the fronts). People online complain about it costing 500-750 dollars PER WHEEL. I understand the labor is not cheap, but I will always choose to do my own maintenance, but I also understand how others do not have the know-how/time/patience etc.
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:m :n :s :n :r :m
Just for you E-farmer :o
Getting pretty close to VIP material there.. ;D LOL
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jj: 5: :t
Too tired to type
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Why? If we cant discuss cars on a site devoted to,well, cars, what good is it? Next thing you're gonna do is push for a higher restraint of boobie pictures - that's right - you will be a push up! :laugh:
Ok, Every Dodge I have ever owned was a total piece of shit. I knew there was a problem with the first one 340ci 197X when I went to replace the header gasket, and coolant was running out the exhaust stud hole. The dodge guys said it was normal. ::) Sold that POS in about a month. Next Dodge truck CUMMINS power, 1995 5 electric window motors, interior falls apart, no power POS. Dodge Intrepid, 4 PS pumps, wouldn't start if below zero, EFI would flood out, have to pull the plugs off the injectors, it would fire and clean the fuel out, then plug them back in and try again. Plus multiple other problems, but it did drive nice> ;D
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Yummi Made me do it! Just to prove that I do not stand for censorship!
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I've been pretty happy with my dakota. After fixing all the shit that was wrong with it when I got it, it's been a pretty solid truck. It's got the 318 in it and 4 wheel drive and I mainly use it for towing. I chose it cuz I liked the body style (it's a '99) and I wanted a V8 but not a full size truck. Last spring I hauled scrap for a while after I quit my job, I towed about 8000lbs per trip, 25 miles each way, two trips a day for almost a month and it handled it like a champ. I know it does a hell of a lot better job than my dads chevy. His last one was a silverado, his current one is the 2005? equivalent. It sucks as far as tongue weight handling and towing goes. If I was to buy a new truck today, and I have looked and thought about it, I would go with the Honda Ridgeline because it has slightly more power than my dakota, is wider, and 4 door 4 wheel drive is standard. I would really like to see Honda come out with a V8 though. If they could get the power per liter out of the v8 that they do out of the 4 cylinders, it would be crazy..
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::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) to all of the above. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
OH NO! NOT a big run of sarcastic smileys.... I'm fooked now.....
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No censorship needed here E-farmer,you just came up with the answer to everything.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"YUMMI MADE ME DO IT"^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HAHAHA its perfect. ;D
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Livewire, that probably would improve reliability in the eyes of the consumer, but also at a higher cost.
I do all the maintenance on my vehicles, and have yet to have one fail on me (Besides a electrical problem in my pickup. The pickup sensor for the HEI died). Personally, I think taking your car to a dealership is a joke. The wheel bearings just went out in our 2002 buick. 102,000 miles, WTF?? Anyways, 250 dollars later, and a couple hours, they were replaced (the fronts). People online complain about it costing 500-750 dollars PER WHEEL. I understand the labor is not cheap, but I will always choose to do my own maintenance, but I also understand how others do not have the know-how/time/patience etc.
It is my point though that the reliability reports are based upon consumer opinion. Most consumers do not work on their own cars. The way the foreign car dealers work it (not just Japanese), it gives the impression of higher reliability by doing more preventive replacement of parts. I used to do all my work and still do much of it. I can't believe how much is it to get brakes done for how easy they are to do. As my available time has decreased, I have been having things done by a good back yard mechanic I found. He knows diesels well which I would not say about the local dealers.
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No censorship needed here E-farmer,you just came up with the answer to everything.....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"YUMMI MADE ME DO IT"^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HAHAHA its perfect. ;D
;D
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Ain't that the truth.Seems like the dealers here need a special diesel mechanic to touch the things.What a crock.
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It is my point though that the reliability reports are based upon consumer opinion. Most consumers do not work on their own cars. ...
I quoted my numbers from ConsumerReports.org . Their data is from over 1.4 million cars over ten years. All of their questionnaires are the same--the customer has to fill in the car type. There is no bias, and it's simple... put a circle in every place you've had problems. The thing I like a bout CR is they don't take advertising from anybody, and they don't set out to "prove" anything; they set out to discover what's best.
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Trouble is that they don't have a clue as to what they speak. Ever see something you know is a POS rated there highly? I'm sure we all have.
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Yea, but not as nearly as often as anywhere else. At least they get it right better than 95% of the time.
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Ok..................
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I quoted my numbers from ConsumerReports.org . Their data is from over 1.4 million cars over ten years. All of their questionnaires are the same--the customer has to fill in the car type. There is no bias, and it's simple... put a circle in every place you've had problems. The thing I like a bout CR is they don't take advertising from anybody, and they don't set out to "prove" anything; they set out to discover what's best.
A person who had their ball joint replaced by the dealer during a maintenance checkup would not likely check a box that said they had problems with steering or suspension. A person who waited for the ball joint to go bad would be likely to check that.
A person who is told the battery should be replaced at it's age or the little green indicator is gone is not likely to report they had a problem with their electrical system. Someone who waits until the car doesn't start is.
Someone at work bought a Scion. I picked him up and dropped him off for 3 repairs at the dealer within the first 2 months he owned it. Yet he still insisted his car was more reliable than the Saturn Ion Redline that someone else I work with bought at the same time that had not needed any repairs. The Scion owner rationalized why each thing was not a reliability issue. It's all opinion based. Opinions all tend to be biased. A person who buys a foreign car because they say it is more reliable will bias his/her opinions in order to rationalize the decision to buy the car.
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Someone at work bought a Scion. I picked him up and dropped him off for 3 repairs at the dealer within the first 2 months he owned it. Yet he still insisted his car was more reliable than the Saturn Ion Redline that someone else I work with bought at the same time that had not needed any repairs. The Scion owner rationalized why each thing was not a reliability issue. It's all opinion based. Opinions all tend to be biased. A person who buys a foreign car because they say it is more reliable will bias his/her opinions in order to rationalize the decision to buy the car.
Your story is anecdotal. My Dad bought a Chevy truck, and had to have major work done every year, until he was sick of pouring money into it and being with out it, and got rid of it when it was a year past the warranty. He bought a Toyota, and never once had to fix it in three years. That's anecdotal, too. One story does not make a trend, even if it supports your viewpoint.
1.4 million reviews is not anecdotal. You are not going to get a million people to say they had tranny problems on brand A but not brand B. No, they check off a list of anything they've had problems with, and you get a bell curve of reality and what to expect.
Statistically speaking, people in the midwest claim American cars are more reliable than people on the coasts. Maybe it has something to do with where the bread and butter comes from.
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I think your both making excellant points.
I think LiveWire is on to something with the dealers suggesting preventative maintenance. It is actually a brilliant strategy, and would affect how people view the reliability of their vehicle, including how they answered questions about it.
It is also probably why we all hear stories about the $1500 water pump or $1500 injectors. They are probably forgetting that the service manager got them to sign up for new brakes, oil change, new filters, timing belt and a tranny flush at the same time. If I ever have any dealer work done, when the service manager approaches me about blah blah blah that needs fixed, I tell them to get lost, just like most of the people on this board that have mechanical abilities.
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You really got to watch the dealers. I bought some bushings from a dealer once. They were like $6 each. So I was like cool $12 to get my car back on the road. I went to pick them up and he said "we can press them in for ya if you want..." so I said cool here ya go. I handed him the parts and he walks away. Five minutes later he comes back and hands me the bill with the parts. $12 for the bushings, $68 for five minutes pressing them in. I said what the hell? He told me they have a minimum of an hour charge for any labor.... If he would of said that up front I wouldn't of had him press the bushings in. I expected to pay something, but that was just wrong.
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Your story is anecdotal. My Dad bought a Chevy truck, and had to have major work done every year, until he was sick of pouring money into it and being with out it, and got rid of it when it was a year past the warranty. He bought a Toyota, and never once had to fix it in three years. That's anecdotal, too. One story does not make a trend, even if it supports your viewpoint.
1.4 million reviews is not anecdotal. You are not going to get a million people to say they had tranny problems on brand A but not brand B. No, they check off a list of anything they've had problems with, and you get a bell curve of reality and what to expect.
Statistically speaking, people in the midwest claim American cars are more reliable than people on the coasts. Maybe it has something to do with where the bread and butter comes from.
My point was not to provide an example of a a Toyota being crap, but to show how unreliable consumer feedback data is. In fact, Consumer Reports method is in fact anecdotal evidence, just a larger sampling of it.
I think LiveWire is on to something with the dealers suggesting preventative maintenance. It is actually a brilliant strategy, and would affect how people view the reliability of their vehicle, including how they answered questions about it.
Summarized quite well.