Six to Four But defiantly not a down grade for Fast.

[fastcorvairs]

 Will you all know by know that I have gone clear off the deep end and started the upgrade.  Lost a six cyl engine and found a four banger with a hair drier.  Got the old out and boy do I have a big hole in the ass end of my buggy. Put the new four banger in and I think I have room for one more just for a spare.  Wo ho that would be a be-gi=zi  Two subi's both with hair driers.  O well one anyway will do me just fine.

Well I had to take a few of the shiny things off to get the Motec Ign off and sent off to the people that will complete the wiring harness that was not complete from the dude that I bought it from.  When I went to take the intake off I got a hand full or peeling chrome. Bummer for sure.  So today was dechrome the intake day.   Petty much got it down to the nickle plating.  Lot's of hi pressure air and a pocket knife.  Ya think Elmer's glue would put it all back on. 

Next in line is to get out the old plasma cutter and start to whack off the old trans mounts

[fabr]

Hope the rest of it's stuck together better than the chrome.

[Engineer]

As long as you didn't lose a finger on the chrome....  That stuff can be SHARP.

Why is the tranny mount changing?

[dsrace]

I will be interested in what you think in comparison to the v-6!

[fastcorvairs]

As long as you didn't lose a finger on the chrome....  That stuff can be SHARP.

Why is the tranny mount changing?

       Only way to fit the engine in was to angle the whole works up in front.  So the trans mounts will have to be rotated to accommodate. The subi has the exhaust coming out the bottom and It had clearance issues with my lower frame rails.  Plus I had to make room for the engine mounts. Rather then raise the motor and trans and lose some travel and raze the center of gravity I went with the rotation of all around the CV center line.  Most of the subi car's I have seen the engine and trans do sit at a angle.  Higher in front then in back.

[fastcorvairs]

I will be interested in what you think in comparison to the v-6!

I'm thinking that all will be better.  My car is so heavy that I had to keep the v6 at 6000K on the rev limiter all the time to get the 250HP and to get it up the big hills.  The subi with the hair drier will make it's full 400HP with 15 pounds of boost at only 4200 RPM.  And on 91 pump gas. 

[dsrace]

I'm thinking that all will be better.  My car is so heavy that I had to keep the v6 at 6000K on the rev limiter all the time to get the 250HP and to get it up the big hills.  The subi with the hair drier will make it's full 400HP with 15 pounds of boost at only 4200 RPM.  And on 91 pump gas.

so what is your 4 cyl with turbo produce factory? what mods have been done to the motor you have? I know we talked about the 6cyl subi's with turbo's having a problem or two, what were those problems again and what kind of hp # do those get with the same mods yours has?

[fastcorvairs]

so what is your 4 cyl with turbo produce factory? what mods have been done to the motor you have? I know we talked about the 6cyl subi's with turbo's having a problem or two, what were those problems again and what kind of hp # do those get with the same mods yours has?

Don't know what the factory spec's are but you can bet they are not much more then 150 to 180 HP at the most.  Where the subi shines is they are able to take large amounts of boost.  It's all in the Ignition and the turbos that they put on them.  The 3.0 and 3.3 LT subi six cyl's have head gasket issues that must be addressed. John at Outfront motor sports has addressed some of them and now has a 1000 HP subi six.  My motor has the STI Block that means it has the semi closed deck and can take more boost.  It also has the ball bearing t4 turbo with the t3 exhaust inter cooler and all new factory heads crank rods and pistons.  The Motec ignition is set at 400 HP and can be reset for it's full HP of 550 at 28 pounds of boost if I want to run race gas. 

[chrishallett83]

Don't know what the factory spec's are but you can bet they are not much more then 150 to 180 HP at the most.  Where the subi shines is they are able to take large amounts of boost.  It's all in the Ignition and the turbos that they put on them.  The 3.0 and 3.3 LT subi six cyl's have head gasket issues that must be addressed. John at Outfront motor sports has addressed some of them and now has a 1000 HP subi six.  My motor has the STI Block that means it has the semi closed deck and can take more boost.  It also has the ball bearing t4 turbo with the t3 exhaust inter cooler and all new factory heads crank rods and pistons.  The Motec ignition is set at 400 HP and can be reset for it's full HP of 550 at 28 pounds of boost if I want to run race gas.

I'm not much familiar with individual Subaru motor models on their own (EJ22G? What the crap is that?), but I know that the Standard WRX 2.0 four cylinder turbocharged motor cranks out about 225 horsepower, and the STI 2.0 donk puts out about 280 horsies. The newer 2.5 is a real firecracker, the WRX makes 265 horsepower, and the STI version is good for 305.

The non-turbo 2.0 four cylinder used to make about 150 horsepower, the new 2.5 N/A motor makes 170.

Actually, found something interesting on that damned Liberal progressive hell-site Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EJ_engine
Basic specs on pretty much every Subie four-banger since the late 80's.

[fastcorvairs]

I'm not much familiar with individual Subaru motor models on their own (EJ22G? What the crap is that?), but I know that the Standard WRX 2.0 four cylinder turbocharged motor cranks out about 225 horsepower, and the STI 2.0 donk puts out about 280 horsies. The newer 2.5 is a real firecracker, the WRX makes 265 horsepower, and the STI version is good for 305.

The non-turbo 2.0 four cylinder used to make about 150 horsepower, the new 2.5 N/A motor makes 170.

Actually, found something interesting on that damned Liberal progressive hell-site Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EJ_engine
Basic specs on pretty much every Subie four-banger since the late 80's.

Ya mine is the 2.5 STI. Crawford did put in the after market APR studs to get the full 550HP and keep the heads on.  Don't look like there is any head porting but then again you don't need that kind of stuff when you have a hair drier pushing in 28# of pressure. I know john at Outfront said that he could ring 650 or better out of one of the four bangers.   

[dsrace]

how high of rpm can your motor take? at what rpm is peak hp and tq?  just asking not changing right now but  there is always change in the wind! oh and what does that motor weigh?

[fastcorvairs]

how high of rpm can your motor take? at what rpm is peak hp and tq?  just asking not changing right now but  there is always change in the wind! oh and what does that motor weigh?

The Motec is set to stutter at 7000 RPM. I have not seen the dyno sheets.  I have ask Quirt if he mite still have them.  No answer as yet.
Jerry has almost the same motor and his is 400Hp at 6500 would not have a clue what the TQ would be.  All I can say is at 4200 RPM and 12# of boost Jerry's car will pin you to the seat all the way up Sand Mountain.  That's stacking a Choke Cherry on top of a Devils dune.  Then climbing them at about 30 or 40 MPH pinned in the seat all the way.  To put it all in perspective. You could dose all the sand in LS up in a pile and still only have a fourth of a hill like Sand Mountain. I think I just wet myself thinking about that charge up that mountain of sand. 

[fastcorvairs]

The Motec is set to stutter at 7000 RPM. I have not seen the dyno sheets.  I have ask Quirt if he mite still have them.  No answer as yet.
Jerry has almost the same motor and his is 400Hp at 6500 would not have a clue what the TQ would be.  All I can say is at 4200 RPM and 12# of boost Jerry's car will pin you to the seat all the way up Sand Mountain.  That's stacking a Choke Cherry on top of a Devils dune.  Then climbing them at about 30 or 40 MPH pinned in the seat all the way.  To put it all in perspective. You could dose all the sand in LS up in a pile and still only have a fourth of a hill like Sand Mountain. I think I just wet myself thinking about that charge up that mountain of sand.

375# fully dressed.  Intercooler turbo headers alt and intake. Two people can lift it up and put on a stand.

[Yummi]

how high of rpm can your motor take? at what rpm is peak hp and tq?  just asking not changing right now but  there is always change in the wind! oh and what does that motor weigh?

From John at OutFront in discussion re: LS vs Flat six  a general weight for an ej25 is 350# dressed.

This discussion is only dealing with the length of engines and their effective weight as applied to the car in that plane (we are not covering the height of the engines, nor the effect of that height.)

first the tranny constant: looking at the profile (from the side) of a buggy, we find that almost all rear engine cars have the tranny bell-housing mating flange about 7" behind the pivot point of the rear wheels (this assumes about a 2-2.5" axle setback)

1st engine: Subaru EZ30 is about 16" long, the CG (center of gravity) is approximately 8" back from the bell-housing mounting flange, weight is approximately 400# fully dressed, ready to install. we are not considering the weight or placement of the turbo and consider it inconsequential in the scheme of things

2nd engine: LS1 V8 is about 28" long, the CG is approximately 14" back from the bell-housing mounting flange, weight is approximately 500# fully dressed, ready to install.

The Subaru then applies 400# centered 15" behind the pivot point of the car (7" tranny + 8" for the engine)

The LS1 then applies 500# centered 21" behind the pivot point of the car (7" tranny + 14" for the engine)

there is a 29% difference in engine placement

so if you could squeeze your LS1 down to the Subaru size and placement in the car, it would actually have the effect of applying 645#! (500# +29%) compared to the Subaru in the same place.

or another way to look at it would be if you took the light weight Subaru and pulled it back 6"more inches to the V8's CG it would effectively apply 310# (400 - 29%) when compared to the effects of a 500# V8 in the same location.

With this comparison, the two are not just 100# different, but are an effectively much more different than one would imagine. A Honda v6 is almost the weight of an LS1 too but is much shorter, so saying they weigh the same is not how their weights and location affect the handling of a car.

conclusion: with the exception of price, there is no way you could compare the two by just putting them on a scale, their effective weights are everything, even if they are the same HP, the proof is in the pudding

This discussion is not even bringing into the calculation of how tall the motors are either!!!

John

[fastcorvairs]

From John at OutFront in discussion re: LS vs Flat six  a general weight for an ej25 is 350# dressed.

John is talking the 3.3LT there to not the ej25.