DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Member Project Logs => Topic started by: hemi43 on September 24, 2009, 07:31:34 PM
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After a couple of months of planning and parts gathering, we are finally starting our build.
This will not be a big dollar LS1 powered buggy like some of the builds here, this will be an off-road gokart that I wish I had when I was 13 years old. This is also a great way to teach some of the skills I've learned over the past few decades to my son.
Unfortunately, I don't have sand dunes in my back yard, but what I do have is an unused , overgrown field beside our home begging to have trails cut into it.
I hope you enjoy what we're building, and I will try and post as much detail and information as I can.
Dan.
Here's our progress to date;
The first step was to build a proper surface to build on.
This is a plywood base (54X100) with a grid marked on the surface in 2X2 squares.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D695&hash=9cd70779b15f851ef1a028a853426c781781fd36)
I raise it on a Hydraulic lift I built, and because the base is on wheels, I can move it out of the way when I need to get around it or when I need the floor space.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D685&hash=02a0985cd772c90859683c8776b2f0716c0e2b3d)
Being in Canada, ordering parts is a bit of a pain, but it's something you have to learn to live with. While I was waiting for the seat to arrive I decided to build the hubs. The flange is 1/2" thick CRS welded to a rough machined hub made from DOM
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D686&hash=f9cccdfe5bf2607b610986701240ba58d98a2ded)
The spindles are machined from 4140, which is overkill, but it weighs the same.
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Here they are assembled.
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Ohhh This is gonna be good. I like your "hardware" boxes along the wall and the spraybooth? doors behind them. I'd love to have a real spraybooth.
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Excellent start! Cant wait to see more. I like the documentation so far and it was only the first post. Thanks for sharing!
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I got the spindles mounted last night on it's mounts. I've never built a front end from scratch before, but have a bit of knowledge about the geometry, so I gave tires about a 5/8" scrub radius. The KPI ended up being 15 degrees.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D690&hash=25d1353c41fd767120b1d9e45e6d2a5f455c0764)
Today I showed kyle how to do a bit of heat treating!! :D
I machined those little thingies that go on the heim joint end to give it more angle movement ( I have no idea what they are called).
They were made from 01 steel.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D693&hash=090e8949d1c73a533a23bf2c4544cba889553e16)
I hardened a couple of them up, then I let Kyle do the rest.
I know some may think that I must be nuts making these because they are readily available, but for the amount of time it takes to turn them up on the lathe it's definitely worth it. I would rather save the cash for things that can't be made like tires.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D691&hash=f504d63ede061dd46bdeda589de25c570c808998)
Speaking of buying parts, these are some of the things we have gathered up in the past few weeks. I'm going to run air shocks with no springs on all four corners because it's lighter and hopefully more tunable. I may have to build remote air reservoirs to give it more travel, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I did read that a member here had used them with good results.
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Welcome to the site! Very good start and it's fantastic to see another member passing on their skills to the next generation!
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What motor are you planning to move it around with? Looks good so far.
Is this Panther Based or another plans or your own layout??
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Since I have somewhat of a budget on this build, the motor that's going in is not my first choice.
I will be using a Honda GX360. It's a twin cylinder liquid cooled OHC engine, and it's rated at 13HP.
This will spin a Comet 94c primary clutch, which will drive a Polaris secondary mated to a FNR Polaris transmission.
I don't have much power, so I ill calculate the gearing so that the top end speed will be around 30MPH.
The field that this will be driven in is fairly flat, so I'm not too concerned about the kart getting bogged down having to go up hill. An ideal engine would be a 400-500 ATV engine, but that may have to be put in at a later date. I'll design in extra room in case that day ever comes.
Dan
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I need to do more homework on this myself as I do not have the parts handy to check.
I have been told that Polaris uses a different angle on its belts and clutches than all the rest of the Sled stuff.
I was told that if you try to use a Polaris tranny/driven clutch with a sled drive clutch the difference in angles will cause belt issues.
I DO NOT KNOW THAT THIS IS TRUE.
But I wish to find out and want you to be aware in case its an issue now.
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One of the nice things about this site is the willingness to look out for others. Way to go nutz!
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Looks good so far! Good luck with it all. Good on you for passing the knowledge onto your Son, I tried to do the same with my Son with no luck, he just wasn't interested. ::)
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Looks good Hemi 8)
Nutz has a point on the belt issue,,,But I use all polaris drive stuff... When you switch over or with the system you have now just make sure you keep the off set at the factory settings IE...Polaris sleds (the 80's and 90's) were all 5/8"...But we'll address that when you get to it ::)
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I can't view the pics. ???
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Just on this thread?
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Yeah Spec,what's up Doc?
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WTF! They have just decided to work.The last couple of days,nothin'!
Spec,you just pay the bill? :police: ;D
Just looked at all the pics.
Those thingies Dan are called High Misalignment Spacers,top job!
Now that's what I call a GOOD Father. ;)
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Ummm,where's the safety glasses?
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Safety glasses and hearing protection is worn 99% of the time in my shop !! The 1 % is only for photo shots !! :-) Thanks for bringing that up.
I was not aware about the different sheave angles on polaris !! :-( I will be doing more research on that, because the clutch has not been purchased yet.
Hmmm !! I got the tranny from a huge polaris dealer ( he's actually a friend that owns it ), and he's the one that mentioned the Comet 94c. He's been in business for eons, so one would think that he may have known that !! Oh well, it will just be another hurdle to overcome.
I got tons done today, (Sat), so I hope to throw more pics up.
Thanks for the tips guys.
Dan
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As mentioned I do not know the angle of the sheaves is different.
I mentioned it one time I was going to use a Polaris quad tranny behind a Ski Doo sled motor and was told the angles were different.
I still am curious is this was true or not.
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Here's pictures of this weekends progress. I'm hoping to get the cross bracing done this week, then I'll move to rear part of the kart.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D699&hash=d506f8ab426b218b18c98a3f5d5aceb7617609d4)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D698&hash=0f8857e2720afe3d669f07d2e9f66926746d5f10)
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I can see design influences (whether intentional or sub-conscious) from a couple of different buggies in that chassis already mate! Looks great, all the best with your build!
Actually, while I'm commenting, why not make the rear end of the frame a little bigger, so you can swap in a motorcycle drivetrain in the future?
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Thanks Chris !!
Actually there's quite a bit of room, and I did that intentionally. If I do put a larger engine into it in the future, I would not put in a motorcycle engine but one from an ATV. I love the way CVTs perform and the kart would be already set up for it anyway.
You're right about the different influences. I like the look of the Barracuda, but I could not copy it 100% because of the size of my build. Right now it kinda looks like those swamp buggies from Florida !!
Western Australia EH !! You can't be any further away from me !! :-)
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I picked out the influences right away. Influenced or not. Your doing some great quality work there. Great little machine you have started!
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I have to give "Lance W" the credit !! I stole most of my ideas from his "Samantha" build pictures. He even had cad drawings in his photo album. ;D
Actually, I have about a dozen pictures that I printed from his album with me as I build this buggy, but I make sure I hide them when I take pictures so that everyone will think that I'm building something unique !!
Shhh.. Don't tell anyone !! LOL
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OK, I got a little more progress done today. It's hard to get motivated during the week, because I would rather kick back with a couple of beers after work !! :)
The front half of the cage is more or less done, so I figured I would start on the rear.
I machined the flat plates on my CNC ( everyone has a CNC at home, don't they? ) which will get welded together to form the housing for the rear suspension
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D701&hash=6ebe34c63c2f0a28c6f54a546584c348d465891a)
I actually built that CNC last year from an old NC mill. I used my old home PC for the brains and other parts which I got online. The only original electrical part that is still used are the servo motors.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D700&hash=dce4f7d645a08131ac435c0df883750451770f19)
A little deburring and the part is done !! ;D
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D702&hash=90682443f362cb0487909429082e01cf2cf3dce8)
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Nice work. This is going to make someone very happy. ;D
Also it's good to hear of people making or converting their own machines, so feel free to put up any info you want about it, or it's creation. Maybe start a new thread if you don't want to clutter this one up.
Thanks for the inspiration.
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Yeah I don't think this is the right place to be talking about machine equipment. I will add, that once I'm done with this go-kart, I will be building a CNC plasma table. If there's enough interest here, I will post build pics in the "Machine Shop" section of dtsfab/
Dan
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Have at er Hemi...I haven't had time to post on this thread but I think your doing a great job ;D
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Yeah I don't think this is the right place to be talking about machine equipment. I will add, that once I'm done with this go-kart, I will be building a CNC plasma table. If there's enough interest here, I will post build pics in the "Machine Shop" section of dtsfab/
Dan
Please do so!!
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Cool lets get into the CNC stuff!! MAN I thought Doug had a well equipped garage
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a cnc would be nice to have at home! Very cool! Looks like he knows how to use it too!
In my case, why buy the cow when the milk is free right?
All in due time reidy 8)
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My CNC wasn't free, but including the purchase of a CAD program as well as software for the mill, I only have about $3500.00 in it. That's Canadian dollars too !! ;D
It's still a learning curve, especially the CAD part. I have no problems understanding things mechanical, but the programming part turns my brain to mush !! ???
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Well, it's been a couple of weeks since my last up date, and it seems like I haven't stopped working on this buggy!!
A whole week was spent trying to mount the engine and transmission. I decided to mount the two together as a unit. I'm happy with the results.
I also made the mounting box for the rear suspension, and ended up making the kart 2 inches longer than I originally designed. I ended up using 6209 bearing to mount the shaft. This was a complex engineering decision that after hours of number crunching ....... OK !! I'm full of sh!* !! I opened my bearing drawer and they were the first ones I saw !! ;D
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D719&hash=94d6f361982482538beceb89e1f99da2c9cd56b9)
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The frame was completely welded up, but I kept the box separate because I still have to mount the caliper to it, and figured it would be easier if it was not part of the kart.
The next step will be to make the suspension arms. Using the same mathematical process as I used for the bearings, I came up with four plastic buckets for the ride height. They are perfect !! ;)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D720&hash=77c09234ff4621a8e53078cea05855f60c3b1083)
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Since I don't have my CNC plasma machine built yet, any small brackets have to be machined from plate. This a slow, and material wasting process, but in the end it's still quicker than cutting them out on a bandsaw.
I program the cutter to go .005 less than the thickness of the plate, and then use tin snips to remove the parts. They are then deburred on a 3M wheel.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D722&hash=4fd45f51c26103d93aeb2d1e7b8939c5b68a656b)
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=719 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=719)
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a cnc would be nice to have at home! Very cool! Looks like he knows how to use it too!
In my case, why buy the cow when the milk is free right?
All in due time reidy 8)
??? Man everything I get from you I pay for, it's all good for you, not so for me :-\! Man I'd love to have a CNC, I'd think serious about giving me left nut for one.. ;D Why where you thinking of giving me one?? :o
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My CNC wasn't free, but including the purchase of a CAD program as well as software for the mill, I only have about $3500.00 in it. That's Canadian dollars too !! ;D
It's still a learning curve, especially the CAD part. I have no problems understanding things mechanical, but the programming part turns my brain to mush !! ???
Wow $3,500.00 if I could buy one for that I'd snap it up quick smart!!
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Wow $3,500.00 if I could buy one for that I'd snap it up quick smart!!
Build one !! ;D
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What can you get a kit, or do you source everything and do it yourself?
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I bought an older NC machine for next to nothing. Look on E-bay. Mine is a Hurco MB1.
Most of these machines are electronically obsolete, and are way past their usefull life. Remember, I said "electronically".
Mechanically, these older machines are far superior to some of the ones available today. I got lucky because the ways, ballscrews on mine were like new.
I only paid $1200 form my machine including a lot of tooling, and I was able to sell all of it's old electronics for $500, which meant that I only had about $700 into be basic machine. I kept the original servos because they can still be used.
I'm not going to go into any details here on how to convert the machine to new electronics, but if you go to www.cnczone.com , you'll find tons of information on how to do it there.
The main brain for the mill is a standard PC, and all the software is downloadable from the net, and very reasonably priced.
If you have any questions, just PM me and I'll will try to help you as much as I can.
Just remember, If I can do it, anyone can !! :)
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Thanks very much I appreciate it! I'm in Australia which seems to be in a industrial information vacum for what ever reason.
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Hell Hemi ;D
We have a section for the machine build...I personally would love to have you post it up there
http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?board=19.0 (http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?board=19.0)
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yup!
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Hell Hemi ;D
We have a section for the machine build...I personally would love to have you post it up there
http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?board=19.0 (http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?board=19.0)
Well sorry for going off topic !! I know this is a "project log " thread, but Reidy02 was kind to ask a question, therfore the least I could do was answer. :)
Dan
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No worries on off topic. Trust me, pretty lax around here on that. (The nutty is what makes DTS delicious)
We all just want more info in the other area.
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Well sorry for going off topic !! I know this is a "project log " thread, but Reidy02 was kind to ask a question, therfore the least I could do was answer. :)
Dan
No problem at all. We all go "off road" with a topic. That's what off road fabbers do isn't it?
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WE ARE OFF TOPIC...
THATS THE DTS CREW ;D
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I had a bit more progress !! I got the front arms made, and mounted this past weekend.
I located the front mounting tabs with threaded rod to keep the aligned and spaced apart correctly, and I used temporary spacers to keep the upper and lower tabs parallel.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D727&hash=364ac4b67872b03c44bd754d07cc343be7bd7c3b)
To keep the spindles in perfect geometry while welding them in place, I made "high Tech" jigs from particle board. One is cut at 5 degrees for the caster, and the other is square for the camber.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D728&hash=a8ababfda93d029981809ed151a7c33a79a9cd2e)
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Here's the arms tacked in place.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D729&hash=9a997ece49143fe926eba8092b240c0651ed2a29)
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I finally got my rear CV joints last night. They're from an Audi A6.
They are fairly heavy for this go-kart, so I will be putting them on a diet by the means of a carbide cutter . ;D
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Looks good, I like ya jig it's a beaut!! Carry on reward less..
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nice progress! Looks good.
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WOW I really like the look of it from the front!
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I like the front also, but to me, it kinda looks goofy from the side. I made the main side rail angle up to fast, and this caused the ass end to be fairly high. She may look better when the engine, rad and fuel tank are in. I'll post more updates in a couple of weeks. Goin' to Vegas Baby !!! SEMA Show here we come !! 8)
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That top box looks empty. Have you gone through a whole case of those consumables already??? ;D
I guess I might owe you one or two.... in Vegas Buddy!!!! It's almost here!!!
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A bit more progress this week !!
I was able to get the rear hubs made, as well as shortening the shafts.
I wanted about 8 inches of travel, but because the kart is so narrow and the shafts so short, all I ended up with is 7 inches. It will have to do !!
Does anyone know the reason why the shafts are hollow inside ? Mine were a two piece shaft welded together. The manufacturer drilled the halves first before welding. I'm just wondering if this gives the shafts more tolerance to shock loads !! Who knows!!
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D739&hash=33a327abc081a0b98df9680b6fc8553b954eb0c1)
I also had to lower the ride height a couple of inches to accommodate the short shafts. This has been a great project to learn how suspensions work, and in the future I will try and keep the shafts as long as possible.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D741&hash=1562a468b3936dbc1d65dacb94d0e26670bb7a06)
The shock mounts worked out great !! I had originally thought that the ass end was too high, but now I'm glad I had screwed up. ;D
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D738&hash=1788ff9d9c6d1d63529de687ca08aef8510ebd9e)
I won't get much done next week , because I'm off to Vegas for the SEMA show.
In case you're wondering, those shocks are from a Ford Expedition. The are an air shock, and I'm hoping these will work instead of springs. I found them online and the seller happened to be about 45 minutes away. They are brand new, and he's selling these for $20 each. He claims he bought over 3000 of them from an assembly plant that was going "tits up" !! I can post a link if anyone is interested in them
Dan
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Very nice work. Nice to see !
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Wow looks great! Very neat!! ;D
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I thought I would post a few pics since it's been a few weeks since my last update. These pictures are from a couple of weeks ago, so the kart progress is much further . We actually have a few miles of debugging on it. :) It's a little rusty now because I had to power wash all the dog shit off of it :P I must have picked up a fresh load of it, because the kart was covered in crap from front to back. It even got on the seat behind my back !!I have no idea how it could even get there because I was sitting in the seat. It broke the laws of POO physics !! ;D
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D833&hash=93a756993245ae800d31f0b6aee1828b5d4b0204)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D834&hash=2a148f484555c436e22b60349afdaad859b1f8a5)
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Look'n good fellas! You might want to think about putting a gusset in those bottom rear A-arms! ;D
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I plan on putting in many gussets, especially on the rear lower "A" arms since there's no triangulation. They would eventually develop cracks for sure if left as is.
Today I plan on raising the roof line a bit, because my head hits the top bars when wearing a helmet.
Also, I would like to try and get a bit more turning radius from the front end. I'm using 1/2 heim joints with "high angle" bushings for a 3/8 bolt. I think I will redesign the bushings to accept 5/16 bolts. They will be more than strong enough, and hopefully get me those few extra precious degrees of wheel movement.
So far, that seems to be the only issues.
The suspension works great with those air shocks :)
I'll take a pic of the kart today, because it looks a lot different than the pictures above.
Dan
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Here's some updated pics I snapped today.
As you can see a lot got done and I got a little lazy in my picture taking.
Sorry for all the pics !! Hope you're not on dial-up ! ;D
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D836&hash=3765688b9d71d560a61d6a062821b8661441a264)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D837&hash=4aa39752efa5a835e5ced029dd27063b3f55f0d2)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D838&hash=0b83150c3aa00efcfbc646d45fde009db84eb896)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D840&hash=025080b421183693dddc6c326ea5d96c2dd5fc00)
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And finally, a small video.
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=835 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=835)
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WOW that was fast !!!!!!!!
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WOW that was fast !!!!!!!!
The best part is that I have less than $1000 invested !! It pays to scrounge ;D
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Hey.. check the steering wheel coupler. Was that just before the run where it came off in you hands?? :police:
tons o' fun. works awesome.
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WOW that was fast!!! I wasn't trying to be smart Dan just trying to help!! ;D Oh how did the shocks go? You'll have to get some video footage..
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WOW that was fast!!! I wasn't trying to be smart Dan just trying to help!! ;D Oh how did the shocks go? You'll have to get some video footage..
I appreciate any tips !! This is my first "buggy" build, so I'm all ears if it helps me build it better.
I posted a video in my last post ??? Let me know if you can't open it.
It was only done with a digital camera, so the quality isn't the best.
The shocks work beyond what I expected !! These things were designed for a 6500 lb truck, so I was a bit sceptical to use them. The dampning rate is perfect, and with 35 psi in them there's no bottoming out. I made the right decision :)
Dan
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WAY TO GO HEMI ;D
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yea i want some of those shocks.. but to the tune of 55$ shipping to the US for two of them, thats a bit high.
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Hoping you'd see that Voodo, like the larger shock, more air volumn. Still a good price?? Local auto was like $65 when I checked, but I like the idea of being able to swap.
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Hemi,
Did I miss the link on the shocks?
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i had him message me it. the price on their site is 15$ each. on ebay from them they are 25$ each plus 55$ shipping for 2. at that price its cheaper just to buy the gabriel hi-jackers from autozone for 65$ longer, more air volume.
are those explorer shocks a factory stock item? as in be found in a salvage yard?
the thing about the explorer shocks is they can be used without air, so im not sure if that means you can run them with lower pressures? the gabriels i tried had to have like 60lbs in them before they would lift my buggy up to ride hieght.
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Thanks voods ;D
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Here's the link for those that are interested. http://www.tran-steer.com/parts.htm
I forgot to mention that this guy also sells these on E-bay.
From what he told me, is that he bought 3000 of these things because an auto plant that uses these closed up. They are brand new never installed factory Ford items.
For us north of the border, a find like this is like gold !! We just don't have the ability to source parts ( at a reasonable cost ) from different places. If we need it and can't get it locally, we have to pay these insane shipping costs as well as brokerage and duties.
I'm too old now and too settled, but if I had to do it all over again I would have gotten out of this Country when I was a teenager, and gone South of the border. Canada is becoming Communist !! :-[
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for people in the US.. my local parts stores carry these same shocks as a pair in the range of 70$ to 80$ which is still cheaper than 15$ each plus over the border shipping....
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Well, this build is coming to an end!! :D
The buggy is more or less finished, and seems to run fine with no issues.
These will be the last pictures before painting. I'm planning on tearing it all apart then getting all the parts powder coated. Most of my projects end up being red, so I think I will do things a bit different this time and paint it dark blue.
I've been working on this for 10 weeks, and I'm still below $1000 invested !! 8)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D849&hash=1e0f140a51c7f9c67ee62ec7c59d3e6f5ea27d92)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D850&hash=cc7bfd296be1be58819d652d537ccbfafbaab541)
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looks great hemi ;D
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Well, it's finally done !! Sorry for any dial-up users, because of the many final pictures of our build . :P
All the parts were powder coated here at home except the main frame. It was too large for my oven, so I sent it out.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D876&hash=8d327ae0858db3ba52c2adbcdd57c9eec93f9cd8)
There's still a couple issues to be taken care of, but that will have to wait until spring. This took 3 times longer than I had expected. I'm just too damn fussy and I hate cutting corners.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D877&hash=82fb581c2eabb18fcece6567b2030d95af202f6f)
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The main problem I'm having at the moment is the charging system.
Since this engine was originally in a Honda generator, there's no lighting coil, only a 3amp charging coil.
What I did was buy a lighting coil for a Rotax 377 snowmobile engine. This is rated at 140watts (aprox 12 amp). I remachined the curve to match the Honda flywheel, and mounted it beside the original 3 amp coil. With no load, I can get high voltage, but as soon as any load is applied, it will barely push out 1 amp. The worse part, is that I can only get 12.8 volts DC after the rectifier. It almost seems like the magnets are too weak ! ???
If anyone has any ideas on what else I could try, I'm all ears !! :)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D879&hash=707b36913f594a2464c5eed03653d3eb11e0a236)
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(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D881&hash=e915007668417d6927b63e8bd40e8611ca076044)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D882&hash=ab5a04720fee9d77d2f2a1e938fd2ee6ec00f534)
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D885&hash=37dcb7b6dc8ee52c4a0d4bb2fc40dd5e3c58c287)
I really liked this build and hope you enjoyed reading about it. I'm actually thinking about building one for myself so that we can both go out and beat on these things.
If you're in the process of building a buggy, and need any questions answered, I will try and help you any way I can. Just PM me !!
Take care, Dan
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Maybe I missed it, but......engine size and source, axle original application, video?
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Maybe I missed it, but......engine size and source, axle original application, video?
It must be me that's missing something !! There's five pages on how this thing was built, and I even mentioned in my last post that this engine came from a generator !! ???
The only other parts that were scavenged from something else are the transmission (Polaris ATV), and the CV joints (Audi A6 )
Engine and tranny specs are on "reply #6"
CV shafts are on "reply #45"
There's a video on "reply #56"
Ya gotta read man!! eyes
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Read? Ya gotta be kidding! :o Boost is too busy giving voodoo and myself a hard time to actually read. rofl
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I found it after I posted. GX360, audi axles, short vid. More video would be nice though. You said you were going to gear it for 30mph. How did that work out? Faster or slower? Do ya have enough power for more and still be able to accelerate decent? I'm wondering cuz I've got a 13hp honda clone sitting on my buggy with a cvt.
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All in all it's a pretty nice package, but it could use more power. I knew that before I started. It seems to be about 25-30 on the top end, but haven't clocked it. I definitely would not want to sacrifice any more bottom end for more speed.
We'll run it this way for a while and see what the future holds for it.
If it warrants a larger engine, then that's what will happen.
I over built everything for this very reason.
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http://www.ahwooga.com/detail.asp?id=2506&n=Electric-Supercharger-2010-RAM-Kit-for-Hondas (http://www.ahwooga.com/detail.asp?id=2506&n=Electric-Supercharger-2010-RAM-Kit-for-Hondas)
This time I'm not kidding. Anyone know the WOT airflow CFM of that engine? If that FAN could push more air than the engine uses at WOT............................................it would actually be a cheap power adder. Worth looking into. even if it doesn't another 12V fan actually could.Some of them push quite a bit of CFM but they won't make pressure as I'm sure the one in the link won't either. However ,if the fan was to provide a "ram air "effect similar to a hood scoop then it would make more power but with the added benefit of having the ram air at all ground speeds. Hmmmmmm.....................
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I definitely would not want to sacrifice any more bottom end for more speed.
That's the kind of response I was looking for. Did you mention what the buggy weighed? An actual figure for top end would be nice also. From my experience racing carts, it may be going quite a bit faster or slower than it looks.
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Don't get too excited Fabr. There are lot's of ways to get more power out of these small engines. Much better ways to spend 2 bills...
I have seen all kinds of things for the honda engines like bolting on a head from a different model and such. In hemi's case, the water cooled option might make that difficult. I do know for a fact that the hp of a briggs can be doubled, tripled, or more, but that won't do any good here.
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Just keeping an open mind. The theory is good whether or not you do engine mods.
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I will get an acurate speed measurement in the spring when all the salt is off the road. I spent way too much time getting it all pretty to have it rust and corrode the first time out. I would say the speed is closer to 25 MPH than 30 MPH.
I tried to weigh the front and rear with a bathroom scale, but the scale needle just got pinned. An educated guess would be about 550-600 LBS
I would love to experiment with a small turbo, but then reality kicks in and it just wouldn't be worth the trouble. If I want more power, I need a more powerfull engine !!
What I will do however, is change the carburetor. Right now it has a standard small engine carb with a butterfly valve, and the bore seems to be around 15mm.
I have a Mikuni 28 mm that I plan to put on. I don't want to start modifying this engine, until I find out exactly how it performs in stock form though.
Unfortunatelly the Honda GX360 is kind of an oddball motor, and there are no aftermarket performance parts available.
Although it's under powered, it's still a blast to drive !!
Dan
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I wasn't talking turbo. Just ram air.
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And a loop header ;D
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http://www.ahwooga.com/detail.asp?id=2506&n=Electric-Supercharger-2010-RAM-Kit-for-Hondas (http://www.ahwooga.com/detail.asp?id=2506&n=Electric-Supercharger-2010-RAM-Kit-for-Hondas)
This time I'm not kidding. Anyone know the WOT airflow CFM of that engine? If that FAN could push more air than the engine uses at WOT............................................it would actually be a cheap power adder. Worth looking into. even if it doesn't another 12V fan actually could.Some of them push quite a bit of CFM but they won't make pressure as I'm sure the one in the link won't either. However ,if the fan was to provide a "ram air "effect similar to a hood scoop then it would make more power but with the added benefit of having the ram air at all ground speeds. Hmmmmmm.....................
I just had a look at the link, and right away I can't see this working. It's 900 watts !! 900 divided by 12 is about 80 amps !!
I think most of my 13 hp would be taken up by turning an alternator to develop 90+ amps ,to turn the electric motor, to pressurize the intake, to make more power,..... Do you see where I'm going with this ?? ;D
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It uses a 10 amp fuse. recheck your figures.
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It uses a 10 amp fuse. recheck your figures.
10 amps @ 12 volts will only give you 120 watts of power.
My calculations are right !!
That's assuming that the motor is in fact 900 watts !!
I can't find where they state that the motor uses a 10 amp fuse! ???
I think there's a bit of B/S on their part stating that the motor is rated at 900 watt ;)
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Hey Dan just a quick question off topic, you mentioned that you might do a section on a build of a CNC mill are you still gonna do that? Just I'm very interested...
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Hey Dan just a quick question off topic, you mentioned that you might do a section on a build of a CNC mill are you still gonna do that? Just I'm very interested...
I already made a CNC mill, and was thinking about making a CNC plasma cutter.
Unfortunately that project has been put on the back burner for a while, because I think I will concentrate on building another buggy.
This buggy I just finished was originally just supposed to be just a go-kart for my son to have fun with on our property, but I'm now thinking of building another for myself so that we can both go out into the trails and have fun.
If you're at all interested in building a CNC mill, I'll try and pass along anything that I've learned .
Dan
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That ram air fan is for a Honda car. A car would have more power than a bike.
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That ram air fan is for a Honda car. A car would have more power than a bike.
IMHO, that fan is just another useless piece of Chinese junk on the market, and a lot of unsuspecting buyers will get duped into buying it.
Plain common sense will tell you that it wont work !!
-the motor will never be able to deliver the volume and pressure to develop 3PSI of boost
-Turbo charging or supercharging varies it's boost relative to the engine RPM. This electric fan does not do that !! It's either on or off
-If it is in fact 900 watts, that would equate to approx 1.2 HP, or about the same as a large starter motor. Try putting a 10 amp fuse inline with your starter and see what happens !! ;D
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10 amps @ 12 volts will only give you 120 watts of power.
My calculations are right !!
That's assuming that the motor is in fact 900 watts !!
I can't find where they state that the motor uses a 10 amp fuse! ???
I think there's a bit of B/S on their part stating that the motor is rated at 900 watt ;)
10 amps @ 12 volts will only give you 120 watts of power.
My calculations are right !!
That's assuming that the motor is in fact 900 watts !!
I can't find where they state that the motor uses a 10 amp fuse! ???
I think there's a bit of B/S on their part stating that the motor is rated at 900 watt ;)
I'm sorry,I thought I saw a 10 amp fuse but must not have. I'm not even saying use that unit. What I'm saying is that there are plenty of fans out there capable of providing some benefit to small engines. Most of them run at 5 amps or so. THey would not provide any pressure as such. I doubt that the one in the link does either. What they COULD provide is ram air just like a hood scoop does.
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Here is some food for thought. Again it's for a briggs, not a honda, but all the info is good and for the most part nickel and dime stuff. It's a step by step buildup with dyno results for a "box stock" class engine. That basically means that an engine like this could come right off the assembly line. There are some changes specific to racing, but could easily be done to a toy like cam, exhaust, and fuel. Keep in mind that with no rule book requirements, there is soooo much more you can do. I have prolly already posted this somewhere, but I get a kick out of it every time. Final output was 170% of original. So here it is...
http://www.aviator.cc/briggs.txt (http://www.aviator.cc/briggs.txt)
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The NHRA junior dragsters Briggs are ,I think, putting out a fair bit more than also. I agree with your point. Hell just nitrous it.
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Here is some food for thought. Again it's for a briggs, not a honda, but all the info is good and for the most part nickel and dime stuff. It's a step by step buildup with dyno results for a "box stock" class engine. That basically means that an engine like this could come right off the assembly line. There are some changes specific to racing, but could easily be done to a toy like cam, exhaust, and fuel. Keep in mind that with no rule book requirements, there is soooo much more you can do. I have prolly already posted this somewhere, but I get a kick out of it every time. Final output was 170% of original. So here it is...
http://www.aviator.cc/briggs.txt (http://www.aviator.cc/briggs.txt)
That was an excellent article, and very well written !!
Unfortunately I don't have a dyno, so I'll just have to use the "seat of the pants " method. ;D ( it would be cool to build a small dyno, though! )
I will try and add a few more plates to the Super Trap to reduce back pressure, and add the 28mm Mikuni.Any machine work will wait till Spring.
Dan