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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Member Project Logs => Topic started by: Engineer on February 08, 2010, 09:58:03 PM
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Current status:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Yjc7PXKp/P1010001.jpg)
Time to get started. ;D
Well I have been gathering some parts so I will start with the parts Porn.
The shop mascot, Duke.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdGWjfrV/Duke1.jpg)
Yoshi gave me a deal on some wheels and tires. I know, I installed the paddles backwards. :-\
(https://i.postimg.cc/wxkLXSzx/Tires2.jpg)
I set them up at the projected wheelbase and track width.
Some Fox shox from Doug Heim.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXB0SN19/Shocks3.jpg)
They are 2.0s 12" stroke for front and 18" stroke for rear.
Thanks Doug!
More parts from Doug. Including some custom spacers he made for me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzkxmPff/Parts1.jpg)
Enough for a five link.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D162&hash=6ed668e6d9e9e93b10b6790df5ed90b8bccfab06)
And some Rod ends.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D169&hash=c600d9f4e3d64aa5f6b68838a90870e09cc9a6f4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D4cRJPwD/P1010001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D4cRJPwD)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDrRH0gW/Shocks3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDrRH0gW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4YXVQbNP/Parts1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4YXVQbNP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nszd0tc3/Duke1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nszd0tc3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YjhvkDjT/Tires2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjhvkDjT)
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I was inspired by BDKW1's build to use the F-150 bearings and CVs. Because of the angles they will go I believe that I can meet my goals of keeping the sprocket above the frame, have 18" of rear travel, and 4" of clearance at full bump. ;D With an 80 tooth rear sprocket. I plan to use busa power and with the ratio's everyone seems to be running the 80 tooth will compensate for my larger 30" tires and allow another tooth on the front sprocket.
Because the CV's are non-plunging I will be using a 5-link, and plan to get very near to zero plunge, with the axles floating between the CVs.
My design has been held up by not knowing the exact rotation point in the CVs. The distance away from the bearing that the CV rotates at. It is critical to know this point in order to build the frame and outer five link brackets so they all rotate together.
I made a jig. I would like to thank LiveWire for a great deal on the EMPI CVs and axles. He also got me brake calipers.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyTbMqJD/center-jig-center.jpg)
By rotating it up and down I measured the axle moving in and out relative to the jig frame.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbYnb5KD/center-jig-up.jpg)
I adjusted the rod ends until I found the point where the axle didn't push and pull as it went up and down.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G2j2wn3X/center-jig-down.jpg)
Then I measured the distance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/52F29CNY/P1010013.jpg)
Now I can finalize the design of all the brackets for the five link.
(https://i.postimg.cc/N9St446z/center-jig-center.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9St446z)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qhz0yY3K/center-jig-down.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qhz0yY3K)
(https://i.postimg.cc/7JzkQ2XY/center-jig-up.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JzkQ2XY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YvMHbjFM/P1010013.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YvMHbjFM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/B8bRVFn9/empi-cv.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8bRVFn9)
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Here is my sketch of how I wanted the center drive to work using as many off the shelf parts as possible.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb0JvYbX/CHAIN.jpg)
So I plan to use 3 of the Timken #515017 bearings, one on each rear wheel and one for the center carrier. These are off of a 97-02 Ford F-150 front.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wvhdnX2H/f150bearing.jpg)
I wanted to only modify 1 of the CVs, but I didn't want to give up the distance or have the drive side CV hang out to far so I cut about 1/2" off the threaded tip of the passenger side CV. This CV fits in the bearing and bolts in just like on the OE application.
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5XHD8yB/bearing-and-cv.jpg)
Then the sprocket goes on where the brake rotor was made to set.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jSQPqmjJ/P1010023.jpg)
Now to modify the drivers side CV.
Ouch!
(https://i.postimg.cc/5yCQhkGy/stub-cut.jpg)
Here is the CV and the flange that will hold it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yd5fKx1P/P1010015.jpg)
It had a nice gap to weld between the flange and the CV.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GhvM0bZF/P1010017.jpg)
I finished it by turning the back side true to the CV and setting the distance to the CV shoulder so the Rotation point will be correct. It will center up where the wheel is supposed to on the bearing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SsXrg46z/P1010024.jpg)
Now mount it on with lug bolts just like the wheel was meant to.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vZ3tMTXV/P1010025.jpg)
So here is the complete setup.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMG8XqP5/P1010028.jpg)
Compared to a 930 setup the width is 6.4" flange to flange.
It's 9.9" from outside of CV to outside of CV.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GhzyTNY0/P1010026.jpg)
On a side note, LiveWire says he can get a bearing with a more standard 5 on 4.5" BC which would be easier to bolt wheels right onto, but I needed the wider BC in order to be able to tighten the lug nuts around the driver side CV.
If I was building a single seat or smaller car I would possibly use bearings and CVs off of a front wheel drive car to save some weight. However the F-150 CV's are nice because a 930 splined axle fits right in them, and long length axles are readily available which may or may not be the case for a FWD car CV.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k6f01yxm/CHAIN.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6f01yxm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/phX7Fn31/f150bearing.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/phX7Fn31)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JH3kCGzM/bearing-and-cv.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JH3kCGzM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPkt8dCb/P1010023.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPkt8dCb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/8fTCWwTg/stub-cut.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8fTCWwTg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N9687gr9/P1010015.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N9687gr9)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mt23CWZk/P1010017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mt23CWZk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BL0Hvdwq/P1010024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BL0Hvdwq)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZWvdxTGb/P1010025.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZWvdxTGb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZCCBJbK8/P1010028.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZCCBJbK8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D8JZtxB5/P1010026.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D8JZtxB5)
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Because I am using the F-150 Bearings, I am going to need some wheel adapters to fit the wide 5 rims.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqYB0KmR/Sound-mind-1.jpg)
There is a step for the brake rotor center and a smaller one for the wheel. Also there are nice radii on the bearings so everything needed chamfered to sit down all the way. Here is the adapter on the F-150 bearing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MpYk075j/adapteronf150bearing.jpg)
needed a wide cap to cover the CV snout.
The front ones can get away with a flat cap. Polishing required. :P
(https://i.postimg.cc/7PzWM1YY/Caps-top.jpg)
I decided to swim upstream on the front to. I am using a standard timken bearing off the rear of a front wheel drive car for the front bearings. The bearings will bolt to the front spindles or uprights.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZnPjkcC8/adapterandbearingonwheel2.jpg)
So here is the front wheel with adapter mounted to the bearing.
And with caps.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjtpGbsg/Covered.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/F7rBC6pk/Sound-mind-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F7rBC6pk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/v4DSb6pQ/adapteronf150bearing.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4DSb6pQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/T5YJ0zxR/Covered.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T5YJ0zxR)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ThR0TDDZ/Caps-top.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ThR0TDDZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hQjVTV8v/adapterandbearingonwheel2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQjVTV8v)
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saved
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No pics? What a tease.... kick
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Stay calm their coming!
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Very cool! Can't wait to see this one in action!
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so you are only supporting one side of your carrier? The bearing may take it, but how bout the mount and the area of the frame the mount is attached to?
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Innnnn-teeeeee-resting.
Subscribing.
Be neat to see how well this works.
I know the bearings carry a mean load in the truck. I wonder if the offset will load them badly?
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Very nice work and ideas. I wouldn't worry about bearing loading.
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I admit I'm concerned with the leverage the overhang of the sprocket will have on the chain. The mount with only a single bearing concerns me only from the standpoint of rigidity and possible chain alignment issues the single mount might have due to any possible deflection that will occur under power. The mount will need to be super rigid.Engineer is plenty educated enough to be able to calculate the deflection loads to see what the deflection will be and how much chain alignment will be affected sooooo,engineer,how ya gonna keep it mounted rigidly enough to prevent any deflection ?
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Wow E-farmer
You've been busy
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Thanks guys!
In regard to the single bearing mount, it is a potential issue. The sprocket is 1.94" away from the mounting face of the bearing, so it isn't a great distance. I won't be timid throwing a little steel at the mount.
As far as the bearing, the sprocket is mounted right against the face. Also it isn't a single bearing, but a double timken taper.
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Seriously the mount is my concern. I know for sure that bugpac had total failure of a similar narrow bearing mount with much less HP and had to redesign. His also looked to be bulletproof but IMO only, there has to be serious consideration of the mount rigidity.. It will take mounting the engine and mount into one very stiff,rigid structure that will not allow any flex not only at the mount but also no flex of the motor mounts and frame between the engine and drive. I know I argued high and low about my not having any flex issues with my first drive on the BBQ buggy but after much thought and rethinking I am certain frame flex was the culprit. The chain will exert,as I'm sure you realize, a large amount of twist into that mount. I'm sure that you'll be able to figure out how much steel to throw at it but ,again, be mindful of the entire cradle package for the engine and drive to ensure chain alignment under WOT power. Remember what we get away with on smaller buggies will bite you in the ass when busas or Kawi1400 or any other really high output MC engine is used. They will twist stuff every way but loose. LOL!!! I'm liking your work.
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Seriously the mount is my concern. I know for sure that bugpac had total failure of a similar narrow bearing mount with much less HP and had to redesign. His also looked to be bulletproof but IMO only, there has to be serious consideration of the mount rigidity.. It will take mounting the engine and mount into one very stiff,rigid structure that will not allow any flex not only at the mount but also no flex of the motor mounts and frame between the engine and drive. I know I argued high and low about my not having any flex issues with my first drive on the BBQ buggy but after much thought and rethinking I am certain frame flex was the culprit. The chain will exert,as I'm sure you realize, a large amount of twist into that mount. I'm sure that you'll be able to figure out how much steel to throw at it but ,again, be mindful of the entire cradle package for the engine and drive to ensure chain alignment under WOT power. Remember what we get away with on smaller buggies will bite you in the ass when busas or Kawi1400 or any other really high output MC engine is used. They will twist stuff every way but loose. LOL!!! I'm liking your work.
Are you suggesting I should cancel the Turbo Order? rofl
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nono Perhaps the twin turbo setup is a bit much though. ;D ;D
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I admit I'm concerned with the leverage the overhang of the sprocket will have on the chain. The mount with only a single bearing concerns me only from the standpoint of rigidity and possible chain alignment issues the single mount might have due to any possible deflection that will occur under power. The mount will need to be super rigid.Engineer is plenty educated enough to be able to calculate the deflection loads to see what the deflection will be and how much chain alignment will be affected sooooo,engineer,how ya gonna keep it mounted rigidly enough to prevent any deflection ?
I just noticed I said with the single bearing. I meant to say with the closely spaced bearings.
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Thats kinda what I wanna see if the offset gives it any trouble.
I know that bearing holds a roughly 3 ton truck up on one side through some pretty brutal beatings when you got a loose nut behind the wheel.
But the tires offset goes back in around the bearing. Kinda centers the load on the bearing carrier.
BUT the bearing STILL has to deal with the entire truck bouncing on it at every goofy angle imaginable while rough off roading is taking place so hopefulley it will be fine.
Heck I see guys with offset rims on the IRS fords and they seen to take it OK so maybe its not so big a deal?
Interesting to see how it fares. Hopefulley very well!
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That's why I am really anxious to get it going. My gut tells me no problem but you never know until you try.
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I don't think the bearing will be an issue at all BUT,i was talking to another member today and he was needing to use anspacer of approx 1.5 " on each side of his vw transaxle to change back to cv's(don't ask why please-irrelevant to this). It seems that ,I believe it was Weddle he said ,says the differential bearings will fail thay way due to the offset but the UJ's spaced out there haven't caused any failures yet. SOooooooo,I'm wondering IF there is a possible issue to be concerned with or if the failures he says will occur in 2 trips out or not for 10 years has more to do with the angle of the axles and the loads the bearings see when axles at steep angles are cycling up under long travel constantly more so than any additional loading the overhang has added.That probably came out gibberish but.....best I could do.LOL!!!! I still can't see any bearing issue- still think mount rigidity is the key to the narrow spacing success. eason I mention the steep angles are due to engineer will be running steep angles if keeping that huge 80 tooth sprocket above frame rails. Just a thought. Better to discuss things like this now than later. If any wants to discusss it that is! LOL!
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fabber I talked to that same member and it was an interesting conversation but alot like talking to a wall! rofl as far as the bearings go engineer have you actually cut one aparts to verify it's a double tappered instead of the more common double ball bearing? I run wheel bearing hub combo's on my v-6 rail which is 1600 lbs to 1800 lbs wet. the bearings came off the front end of a 97 cherokee 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern thru what ever other years and I also believe they fit the v8 grand cherokee models but doesn't matter I can say this they are not 2 tappered timken even though the box said timken on it they are 2 roller bearings as far as i could tell from a website i finally found with some info on them. no I have not taken one apart but will soon. ok the reason I even ask is because when i jump my rail upon landing there is enough flex in my wheel bearing the my rotors lean over just enough that my brake pedal gets just a touch soft on the first push. but only when a hard load is put to them like jumping! fast corvairs is running the same bearings I believe I wonder if he has noticed this as well? you should hollar at him and ask! I'm just saying there is a reason factory brakes are on a slide so they can move with the rotor! just something to think about.
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ok I took a few pics to show you guys what I am talking about. engineer I am not trying to pick apart your idea just giving you some info to try and avoid headaches down the road. now given that when mckenzies screwed up my order at the last minute and sent me 2 piece rims that were bolted instead of welded I wasn't happy but didn't have the time to ship back and wait the supposed 4 weeks to get new ones. I then later learned that the I think cws rims were actually formerly michelle rims so that didn't make me happy and I do believe there is some actual flex in the rim itself as well. I do know that there isn't that much clearance between the nuts and my caliper with the wheel spacer on, about 1/16" and as you can see from the pic those nuts have rub my calipers at times through out a year. now when I installed these wheel bearings the book I had said 80-100ft lbs tq so that is what I did and my brakes were horrible so I switched to a 7/8" bore master cylinder and re tq'd the axle nut to 250ft lb tq with a tq wrench. that took 95-98% of the problem out but I still think there is a little flex in the wheel bearing on my heavy v6 rail. the rotor in the pic is 12.19" od and the caliper is 4 piston 1.75 pistons. now enemy is running the same wheel bearing and a 3/4" master cylinder with the same rotor but 1.38" pistons and he felt the same problems at first and started tq ing down more and got rid of most but not all I think. fast is running front brakes and imo only! I believe this may help mask this if this is what is really going on! he said his cutting brakes act alot like mine after a hard run through rough or low alt jump so to speak. also my rear susp design does not have a camber curve so I wouldn't be adding load from that. I have a used bearing I picked up for mock up, I will have to cut it up later tonight and see what is really inside and post some pics.
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fabber I talked to that same member and it was an interesting conversation but alot like talking to a wall! rofl as far as the bearings go engineer have you actually cut one aparts to verify it's a double tappered instead of the more common double ball bearing? I run wheel bearing hub combo's on my v-6 rail which is 1600 lbs to 1800 lbs wet. the bearings came off the front end of a 97 cherokee 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern thru what ever other years and I also believe they fit the v8 grand cherokee models but doesn't matter I can say this they are not 2 tappered timken even though the box said timken on it they are 2 roller bearings as far as i could tell from a website i finally found with some info on them. no I have not taken one apart but will soon. ok the reason I even ask is because when i jump my rail upon landing there is enough flex in my wheel bearing the my rotors lean over just enough that my brake pedal gets just a touch soft on the first push. but only when a hard load is put to them like jumping! fast corvairs is running the same bearings I believe I wonder if he has noticed this as well? you should hollar at him and ask! I'm just saying there is a reason factory brakes are on a slide so they can move with the rotor! just something to think about.
I never would have dreamed they might be roller bearings.
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yes, a lot of them are roller bearings. Just a reminder, Timken is a brand, not a type of bearing.... ;D
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Good insight! They might not be taper bearings. I will look up some info on them. Let me know what you find when you cut it apart DS. You can get the same bearing from multiple suppliers besides Timken, but I believe they will all be of the same design regardless of manufacturer.
Which bolt are you talking about torqueing down more DS? The center bolt that holds the splined stub in?
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yes the axle nut. I did cut one up and this one came right off a stock axle off of a cherokee I bought from the junk yard before deciding what way to go along time ago. the housing and bearings say timken on them and there are bearing #'s too. now the jeep is a double tapered bearing so that sight I was on that sold tools to rebuild them was showing the wrong image for this wheel bearing but apperantly some of the others are rollers!
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I have a 92 cherokee that i offroad and i have blown one apart and it was regular ball bearings, so maybe they come in both versions?
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Hmmmm,that throws an unknown, for sure ,into the mix.
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The Set 35 bearing many use and are in the Formula Cross are tapered rollers if a Timken bearing. The other brands are ball bearings. I have never had a Timken fail, but the one time I used one of the others because it was available quick, it failed the first time out. The only reason I had to use the other one was The Timken's inner race stayed on the hub when I removed to replace with different hubs. I did not have the tool I have available now to have removed it. I put the inner race from one side into the outer on the other side then replaced one bearing. Even though mixing parts from 2 used bearings could have resulted in problems, that bearing is still alive and well years later.
I don't think Engineer's bearing will have problems. I bet the only difference between that bearing and the one in my 8500lb GVR truck's is it has 5 lugs instead of 7. The distance from the left CV to the bearing is really close in that setup. I would be more concerned about the mount, but I am sure he'll make sure it is not an issue. While I have a small amount of doubt, I have a lot of curiosity as to if it works ;)
I have some wheels that I made and ran on the front of a 650 lb machine. The center of the wheel is 3/8" thick 7075 T651. I doubt that is flexing. The inner half bolts to the center is Douglas .190 6061 T6. The wheel will flex an 1/8" to rub my ball joints. Actually, they flexed more than 1/8" because it wore through the rim and the tire went flat. So DSRace, I think it is mostly in your wheels.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftershockmotorsports.com%2Fwheels%2Fback.jpg&hash=01c7e251050029a8ea611288616e260cbb17dd5b)
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the bearing in the pic is off of an 97 cherokee and I cut another old one up last night that was off of an 84 cherokee I believe. I would have to go check to be sure but it also was tappered and said timken on it. the ones on my rail currently were in a timken box but the fact still remains that rim flex won't push pistons in my caliper. I am tq'd to 250 and seems to have taken 95 -98 % of the problem out so next time out I am going to tq to 300! my rim is 2 piece aluminum cws and 3/4" thick throught he pilot hole they did weld the center together and bolt the upper halfs together which would also lead me to believe they know they have issues! I would pre fer centerlines like enemy's. mine probably only flexed 1/8" total at the 180 ft lb tq that the box said to tq to. I would just be careful or atleast have a back up plan if this doesn't work!
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engineer or live wire let me ask you this what is the bearing pilot hole dia of the f150 wheel bearing? or in other words the hole dia of that wheel bearing where it goes through and bolts to you carrier?
what are some thoughts on this one? the jeeps are juat about 4" od and the impalas are 3.59". I don't know the f150 but if the bearings were larger od wouldn't that be better and maybey even less chance of flex or am I thinking about this backwards. thats if these are tappered ones.
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Engineer can probably answer the size since he has already done CAD work. I know they are larger than the Impala bearing flange. Larger would give more leverage.
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Here are the sizes:
Front Wheel Bolt Quantity=5
Flange Dia=7.226"
Bolt Circle Dia=5.316"
Wheel Pilot Dia=3.415"
Brake Pilot Dia=3.542"
Flange Offset=1.94"
Hub Pilot Dia=3.91"
Splines=33
Flange Shape=TRIANGULAR Hub Assembly
It's all pretty clear, the flange offset is the distance from the mounting face of the brake rotor to the mounting face of the bearing into the spindle/carrier.
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Here are some drawings that have been hanging out in Autocad for a year. I don't really like the roof lines, but haven't played with them much.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D954&hash=3ecb7a5bce53b5c9b6c15844ed6658eb1ebe3681)
I am going forward with this design. 50 parts ready to go to laser. Just need to finish up the 5-link carriers at the wheels and order the parts. The center bearing mount design is done. It isn't going to flex, but I don't even want to calculate the weight.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D955&hash=ab75375d6687a14aaec9533b6d597c7ee54a0dd6)
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wow! looks like some serious clearance!
I just finished up your custom HMS's tonight. You will be very happy!
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Diggin the realism - flat biller with a ponch?
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Diggin the realism - flat biller with a ponch?
What's the point if you can't be real? I was having fun with the drawing.... Didn't take you long to spot that! I'm not cool enough for the hat or the Oakleys, but the ponch I do pretty well. :P
wow! looks like some serious clearance!
I just finished up your custom HMS's tonight. You will be very happy!
Thanks Doug! That was quick. Got me out of a pinch there. Now I won't have to make dummy spacers to weld up the spindles. ;D
Hoping to get this project moving!
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;D :o
HE HE HE HE
GIGGLE GIGGLE GIGGLE
Yumster sometimes you fooken kill me
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New roof
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Dude,
I am so not as smart as you.
Having said that, i am not digging some of the bar placement - blue = concerns. Red = suggested? Hard to find a nice work around on the front bars tieing into the floor.
Looks like the load path on the rear upright would want to collapse?
BTW - like the shock braces.
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Dude,
I am so not as smart as you.
Having said that, i am not digging some of the bar placement - blue = concerns. Red = suggested? Hard to find a nice work around on the front bars tieing into the floor.
Looks like the load path on the rear upright would want to collapse?
BTW - like the shock braces.
Yummi
Your smarter.... Everyones strengths are different. You can see the gray areas.
Thanks for the input. I have been tinkering with this for about a year and I may have a forest/tree issue. ;)
The front blue circle, I have no excuse.....
My plan is to use 1.5 x .120 tubing for most everything shown now. I consider this main structure. I bought some 1.5 x .083 and 1.25 x .083 for secondary gusseting. I don't think there should be much secondary needed which is why I choose the bigger tube for the primary. I am not to big a fan of spaghetti frame.
The red line shows my reasoning on the front. If you look at the top view, the frame is going to turn inward right where that vertical tube is. I am trying to isolate the loads and keep them in line so that the flat side of the car has its trusses right up to the corner, then the frame turns and the trusses in front of the corner are in line. It really bugs me to not have a side to side crossmember at that bottom corner on the floor, but I don't think your feet would appreciate one there and the floor will provide some support.
Once again I am bucking the norm with the lower frame rail tube which most people form a hoop around the bottom of the car and go across to the opposite side. It will be harder to build, but mine turns up and ties in right to the front bulkhead / shock mount which is the load that the truss frame of the side is supposed to be carrying. ;) It will also make the side panels flow very well IMO.
As to where the tube should land when supporting a bent tube.... Your forward red line. I don't know. I wanted to keep the side to side crossmember flush to the bottom in order to make it easier to mount the floorpan then ran the gusset tube to that point. It probably would be stronger hitting the center of the bend. I changed it and it looks better. Next post will reflect it. Thanks!
Moving back.... I see your concerns in red. Lots of variables to juggle. I made another drawing to play with some options. Landing the B pillar at the shoulder or at the rear point (your blue circle) would be strong enough IMO. The rear shocks are holding it all up, the B pillar is transfering the load down holding the main weight, occupants and motor. Your location makes more sense being in line with the weight.
On the flip side, I can't move the crossmember right behind the seat back or it will get into the motor. Would it matter if the B pillar and the frame trussing all landed 4-6" behind the crossmember? That would raise complaints as well. The other problem is my upper shock mount. If anything it should move back. I didn't draw enough before buying the 18" stroke shocks. The further forward the upper mount moves the more the shock lays down and the more travel it generates. I am already over 20" travel which is fine, but laying it over more messes with the progressive curve / perpendicular at full bump crap. :-\
Could go for the get both option and have an A, B, C and D pillar eyes but we are talking about a 1500 lb car here. I have seen lots of cars with 2 pillars, and V-8 cars with 3.
Plus the shock brace doesn't work as well with forward B pillar. ;D ;D
Second picture I moved the rear vertical tube to the center of the bend at the bottom of the frame. I like it from a structure and strength standpoint, but that tube was also going to be the mounting for the firewall between engine / occupants and the firewall probably won't work that far back so then do I end up with a dead dummy tube later to hold the firewall....
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Moved the lower crossmember in front of the engine forward 4" which fixed the firewall problem, and lengthened the 5-link bars some improving on some other issues. ;D
I think all of the frame gusseting is changing to .083 wall tube with only the top bottom and roof bars being .120.
Added some of the roof bars in the top view..... I can see why people like 3D, I can't even tell what is what in the jumble.
Thanks for getting me off center Yummi. Made lots of improvements. Better now than with a grinder and cutoff wheel later.
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Moved the lower crossmember in front of the engine forward 4" which fixed the firewall problem, and lengthened the 5-link bars some improving on some other issues. ;D
I think all of the frame gusseting is changing to .083 wall tube with only the top bottom and roof bars being .120.
Added some of the roof bars in the top view..... I can see why people like 3D, I can't even tell what is what in the jumble.
Thanks for getting me off center Yummi. Made lots of improvements. Better now than with a grinder and cutoff wheel later.
YUP!!!!!
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YUP!!!!!
Wanna draw it for me so I will know what it will look like? ;D
Don't worry I will have a SOLID model soon.
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LOL! I've got alibre. sux drawing tubes. SW it's not.
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LOL! I've got alibre. sux drawing tubes. SW it's not.
Auto Cad is the best for drawing tubes. Engineer take your dwg down to a local hi school and see if there shop class teaches Auto Cad. Allot of them due and would love to use your plans to teach the students to draw. My local hi school dose and I work with the shop teacher all the time With this kind of stuff. He even sends students here to learn machine work and lets me use there CMM when I need one. My local hi school even has eight seats of Master Cam.
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Auto Cad is the best for drawing tubes. Engineer take your dwg down to a local hi school and see if there shop class teaches Auto Cad. Allot of them due and would love to use your plans to teach the students to draw. My local hi school dose and I work with the shop teacher all the time With this kind of stuff. He even sends students here to learn machine work and lets me use there CMM when I need one. My local hi school even has eight seats of Master Cam.
Dang, never thought of the school, I have been paying real money to have projects drawn. I have Autocad Inventor. Are you saying it draws tubes well? I have drawn some parts on it, but never really figured out how to get the parts to join together in space well. I guess I need to tinker with it.
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Dang, never thought of the school, I have been paying real money to have projects drawn. I have Autocad Inventor. Are you saying it draws tubes well? I have drawn some parts on it, but never really figured out how to get the parts to join together in space well. I guess I need to tinker with it.
In Autocad you draw a line even with a curve in it and then draw your circle at the end. What ever size tube 1.25 1.5 1.75 then you click on the circle and give Auto a direction and click on extrude and the tube will appare. if you have two lines cross then when you extrude it will automatically trim the extrusion where they cross.
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Got some more bungs and HMS spacers including some customs ones made to my specs from Doug Heim today. Great service! Thanks Doug!
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Great. Let me know how they work out. I didnt have a 1" mono ball to check the custom HMS to. Any issue and Ill be glad to work it out with you. Thanks for your purchase! Doug
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Great. Let me know how they work out. I didnt have a 1" mono ball to check the custom HMS to. Any issue and Ill be glad to work it out with you. Thanks for your purchase! Doug
They fit perfect. Dropped right in beautifully!
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excellent! 8) ;D
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In Autocad you draw a line even with a curve in it and then draw your circle at the end. What ever size tube 1.25 1.5 1.75 then you click on the circle and give Auto a direction and click on extrude and the tube will appare. if you have two lines cross then when you extrude it will automatically trim the extrusion where they cross.
Yup, type "EXTRUDE" select circle, pick "path" select line and walla.
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Yup, type "EXTRUDE" select circle, pick "path" select line and walla.
Are you talking about inventor or in Autocad mechanical? In any case would you draw each tube as a part then assemble them or do the whole frame as a single part?
Where I get stuck is you have a tube that is angled at 22.703 degrees, then you want to attach another tube onto it 23.46" from some radius and it needs to angle at 87.93 degrees. How do you tell it to join the tubes like that. ;D
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Are you talking about inventor or in Autocad mechanical? In any case would you draw each tube as a part then assemble them or do the whole frame as a single part?
Where I get stuck is you have a tube that is angled at 22.703 degrees, then you want to attach another tube onto it 23.46" from some radius and it needs to angle at 87.93 degrees. How do you tell it to join the tubes like that. ;D
In autocad, extrude, subtract, and redo/undo. Can be your best friends. I've got a tube frame I did somewhere here that I'd show, but I can't find it right now.
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I am just going straight to a steel solid model....
Here is the 5-link upright / bearing / Cv drawn the old fashion way. ;D
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Dang, never thought of the school, I have been paying real money to have projects drawn. I have Autocad Inventor. Are you saying it draws tubes well? I have drawn some parts on it, but never really figured out how to get the parts to join together in space well. I guess I need to tinker with it.
Inventor is a very capable piece of software. I've been using it for 6 years and it is my CAD software of choice. If you have any questions on how to use it just shoot me a pm and I'll get you taken care of. ;)
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Inventor is a very capable piece of software. I've been using it for 6 years and it is my CAD software of choice. If you have any questions on how to use it just shoot me a pm and I'll get you taken care of. ;)
Thanks Grim! I will get with you when I have time to play with it draw it in Autocad Inventor. :)
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Thanks Grim! I will get with you when I have time to play with it. :)
Sounds gay rofl
Sorry could not help it either rofl
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Sounds gay rofl
Sorry could not help it either rofl
HEIM! (https://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1809.0;attach=14297)
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;D
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I am just going straight to a steel solid model....
Here is the 5-link upright / bearing / Cv drawn the old fashion way. ;D
The old-fashioned way?!? I don't see a pencil and paper!
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The old-fashioned way?!? I don't see a pencil and paper!
I am a dinosuar who still draws in 2D. :b
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So am I my friend.
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Laser Cuts showed up today. :) Should be everything to get it rolling. Some assembly required. ;D Now where are those instructions......
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D970&hash=7ec4f0c1daf7646a01532f5680aefc586689b40c)
Front Bulkhead and upper arms.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D969&hash=04d426d46bfb68cd14cfe6354200e916a2e6662c)
Brake Rotors
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D968&hash=70d8c84fb38fa6fbb7f4f0a409f4a864f0bf7497)
5 link uprights
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D967&hash=09b434caf0abc5d06136fe413b27d64bf2726b4a)
Front uprights
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Lower front arms
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D971&hash=ac21b300dc18d0667f1cfbaab757a29ec3a88cc3)
Rear sprocket carrier and 5 link center mounts.
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LOTS of pieces 8) 8) 8)
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First the parts:
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D968&hash=70d8c84fb38fa6fbb7f4f0a409f4a864f0bf7497)
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I like the spacing, not a midboard, but narrower than any microstub. :)
Made it to heavy. It's 1/4" but would have been fine with 3/16".
Thanks to LiveWire for the EMPI CVs at a great price. :)
Also the Timken bearing unit is #515017.
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Looking good,compact. What's it weigh?
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Looking good,compact. What's it weigh?
28 lbs. Just for the weldment. :-\ It's V-8 ready.
DS scared me with his 3/8" bending, but with all the triangulation I think that I could have got by with less.
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28 lbs. Just for the weldment. :-\ It's V-8 ready.
DS scared me with his 3/8" bending, but with all the triangulation I think that I could have got by with less.
Yeah you aren't going to break that very easy...
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28 lbs. Just for the weldment. :-\ It's V-8 ready.
DS scared me with his 3/8" bending, but with all the triangulation I think that I could have got by with less.
I should have weighed my mids but I'm guessing about the same though.
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How bout drilling some lightening holes? I know what the title of the build is, but I wish you would hurry up. rofl Looking gooood.
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Engine
You going to have floating caliper's on that car? And I only can pick out three points. Is it going to be like a five link with one link gone missing on each side. ??? ???
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I count 3 lateral links mounts, 2 forward link mounts and a shock mount.
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How bout drilling some lightening holes? I know what the title of the build is, but I wish you would hurry up. rofl Looking gooood.
Thanks!
Yah drilling holes. eyes I will have the laser drill some lightening holes in the new 3/16" brackets. ;D
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Engine
You going to have floating caliper's on that car? And I only can pick out three points. Is it going to be like a five link with one link gone missing on each side. ??? ???
I count 3 lateral links mounts, 2 forward link mounts and a shock mount.
Bingo!
Guess I need better pictures. The brake will be in the middle (no diff).
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Bingo!
Guess I need better pictures. The brake will be in the middle (no diff).
This is the image I was looking at:
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D1009&hash=66951088d24c4838d61f2d25527e519f80f9183d)
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Tacked the front upright together, and assembled to check clearances. Seems it might work. I designed around using an off the shelf automotive wheel bearing unit. Time will tell if it was a good idea or not. Bearing is a Timken 513018.
Thanks to Livewire for the Willwood brake caliper and pads.
LiveWire also provided the EMPI CVs that were used with the 5-link mounts.
Thanks to Doug Heim for the HMS spacers on the rod ends, and especially for the custom made ones for the lower 1" Uni-ball.
First the parts:
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D967&hash=09b434caf0abc5d06136fe413b27d64bf2726b4a)
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Looking good. And to think I thought I built my stuff beefy.LOL
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You got the LS6 picked out to push the moster around in the sand. rofl rofl mm: mm:
Looking good.
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Looking good. And to think I thought I built my stuff beefy.LOL
You got the LS6 picked out to push the moster around in the sand. rofl rofl mm: mm:
Looking good.
Thanks guys! Actually the front upright isn't that heavy. It is just big. I like some separation on the links, it reduces the forces on everything, so theoretically it could be built lighter.
So your saying I should order the turbo now? rofl
There are some lightweight parts coming up shortly. ;D
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WOW! Looking friggin' SWEEEEEEET!!!!
P.S. Order turbo now....just sayin... ;D ;D ;D
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Cripes that looks TOUGH! And really nicely put together, too. Well done!
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Thanks guys!
Couple more misc pictures to add.
Five link bracket:
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D1029&hash=f2497472cb37211fc0aa373371ed45cdba3c38cc)
High tech jig for building spindles. ;D
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D1030&hash=8b232b07975d6af720ffdd004c9f4e78269ad0db)
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That's a bunch of clamps. Just sayin cause I have nothing else to add. Speaking of ADD - ohhhh - its shiny too!
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This is what I came up with to mount the outer lower Uni-ball to the 1.5" thick sheet metal arms. I wanted more weld area than the standard ball housing would give and welding the ball housing directly to the sheet wouldn't hold up IMO.
It seems the water jet people always pic the absolute worst spot to start their cut. eyes
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Time will tell if there is a clearance issue there. However the arms are long enough that they only rock +/- 15 degrees in the spindle through 22" of travel.
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Next time call out the pierce point.
Looking real good though!
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Next time call out the pierce point.
Looking real good though!
Thanks Doug.
Yup gonna have to start calling it out instead of hoping for the best.
Those are the custom hi mis spacers you made me for the small 1" ball. :)
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Im glad they worked out!
I cant wait to see your next progress report. These have been a long time comming! 8) 8) 8)
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there mite be room for one more clamp ??? ??? O hell two anyways. :laugh: :laugh: Looking good Engine.You going to bolt or rivet them lower joints on?
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I bet they weld in. He's doing sheetmetal arms.
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I bet they weld in. He's doing sheetmetal arms.
Them look alli to me? Are they steel?
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Looks like WJ steel to me. I bet eng lets us know before long.
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I really like the uniball design. I'm likely going to do the same for next buggy. I really considered it this time but made the wrong decision.
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They are steel. I just bead blasted the scale off so it will tig better.
Here is a quick pic of how they weld into the arms..... Hopefully soon.
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11 ga plate?
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11 ga plate?
14
I shouldn't tell this but the way I came up with the gauge was to look at a normal tube arm like 1.25 tube x .125 wall then I calculated the weight of a tube arm. Then I calculated the area of sheet in my arms and adjusted the guage until I got about the same weight. The upper is 16ga. I started wanting 16 on the lower which I think would have been fine out to around the shock mount but from there out it concerned me as the volume of material starts to neck down where all of the stress is.
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The shock mount, does it come down inside and form the gusset we see out by the uniball.
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The shock mount, does it come down inside and form the gusset we see out by the uniball.
Yah, you can see in this picture the row of tab slots in the arm sheetmetal. The shock mounts are the parts with the round holes in them. The long one runs all the way from the inner pivot to the uniball cup where it will be welded to the cup. If it goes as planned they will be together this week with pictures.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D965&hash=ca730e0e6af29cac49b8ed6568c68a3cd1de608e)
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How wide is it across the shock mounts?
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How wide is it across the shock mounts?
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl Wide enough to bend a half inch grade 8 bolt lickity split. rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
No more info till its assembled and the pics tell the story. ;)
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Kinda what I thought.
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looks great and great choice on the 5 link! looks beefy and heavy but solid! I see you went 1/4" plate on the carriers, I know I posted about flex on the 3/8" thick 1086 steel ones of mine and a bendt one on enemy's but the flex on mine came with extreme side loads and enemy's only bent with even more extreme side loads. my rail is heavier than both yours but I do agree 1/4" or I would pre-fer 5/16" my self for v-6 or v-8 if braced appropriatly! I did get the flex out of mine by simply boxing accross the box horizintally as close to the bearing as i could. so with the caliper still mounted on top of the rotor and flex in the rotor or carrier would be exagerated in that position. now if I could just stop those cws rims from flexing I would be one happy camper. ;D so you going to make it down to ls in 3 weeks?
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Thanks DS!
I can't plan 3 weeks ahead so I am not sure yet.
I agree that a little bracing does wonders.
How wide is it across the shock mounts?
I have another non-answer answer..... It is 1/2" wider per side than the shock and spring that is going between them. And if you notice the holes are not for a 1/2" bolt. ;D
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Again ,as I suspected.
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More pictures of clamps! kick rofl
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This is the upper A-arm.
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What is all the square tube shorts for?
What gauge sheet metal are you using?
Looking good. Doing the same for the lower arm?
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What is all the square tube shorts for?
What gauge sheet metal are you using?
Looking good. Doing the same for the lower arm?
Work project.
16 gauge.
Similar, coming next.
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Those are some of the finest clamps I have seen in a long time. ;D That must be sweet, just putting all the pieces together like a puzzle. If your gonna make LS in 3 weeks you may have to leave a few clamps on the the test rides. rofl
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just bring the welder we'll hold for you! ;D
it does look good!
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Those are some of the finest clamps I have seen in a long time. ;D That must be sweet, just putting all the pieces together like a puzzle. If your gonna make LS in 3 weeks you may have to leave a few clamps on the the test rides. rofl
Yeah, It's like a puzzle alright.... :P ;) ;D
About ready to put the covers on the lower arms. They are 14 Gauge.
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why didn't you use cold rolled?
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why didn't you use cold rolled?
I didn't specify. I guess that is what happens when I choose the cheap laser cutter.
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Jig bars to get the bungs square.
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The bulkhead is almost ready for a frame. Rack mounts sticking out the front, A-arm mounting points, shock mounts and holes for frame tubes.
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Almost time to start bending tubes. ;D
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Looks like you aren't going to break that in a hurry...
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Hey Eng looks good Mate how much do ya reckon it'll weigh when it's finished?
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Hey Eng looks good Mate how much do ya reckon it'll weigh when it's finished?
Thanks Reidy!
I don't even want to guess at this point. When I started I imagined less than 1500. It is a full size car. It will just barely go in an enclosed trailer without having to change tires.
While the parts look bulky, some really aren't that heavy. They are full of air after all. The upper A-arm with no rod ends is 8.5 pounds. The lower isn't quite finished but it looks to be around 30 pounds. Anyone want to throw me a bone and tell me what their tubing arms weigh?
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Approx 6 feet of 1.25x.095 wall 4130 + approx 5 pounds .125 plate gives me approx 14 pounds for my lowers and approx 9 pounds upper. My arms are longer yet than yours are. Even adding some plating in mine will still be lighter. Considerably ,it appears.
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Don't forget the bungs. They are heavy but square bungs are heavier than round. :'(
So based on these predictions it will weigh 2500 finished? rofl
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1 bung each ,so add another pound.
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It's going to be a
BBW BBB. ;) ;D
So the front is ready for tubing to start hanging parts on so I needed to get the rear ready as well. Here is the rear Bearing Carrier/5-link mount. I tacked on one tube top front, but you can see that there are three tube saddles where the chassis will attach.
View from the driver side rear.
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View from driver side front.
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View from passenger side rear. Small hole in rear plate is for chain tensioner screw. Big hole is for sprocket.
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Passenger side. Still some small gussets to add. This is the part that has the impossible job of holding the sprocket from one side. The boxing on the 5-link brackes serves a dual purpose of stiffening the 5-link mounts and the mounting points for the bearing carrier.
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Bearing carrier, Bearing, sprocket, CV, Brake rotor. You can see the chain adjustment slots it moves on.
The bearing / Sprocket pilots are such that the bearing has to be pulled out toward you in order to remove the sprocket. By removing the bolts and lifting straight up the bearing carrier comes out. It will get some stiffeners now that I see that it CAN be assembled. ;D
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Added brake caliper.
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Rear view.
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Driver side. (Reidy, Chris, Baloo.... I know that DS doesn't make a lick of sense. kick)
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I added a wheel. ;D
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Mate I know (and mentally adjust for the fact that) you guys drive on the wrong side of the road!
It mostly (99%) looks great to me mate. One thing sort of pokes me in the 'hmm, I wonder' spot - keeping those bearing carrier/adjusting bolts tight and secure, and the chain tight with it! You're gonna be putting an awful lot of force through those four mounting points, they're gonna want to come loose like crazy...
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I'm of the same thinking. Time will tell tho. Looking good so far .
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...especially with it only mounted on one side! (Unless I just couldn't see the sprocket side mounts...)
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Have you had much trouble with the wheel bearing coming loose on your vehicle? It is mounted the same way. Of course my four mounting bolts are spread out much wider than the bearing mount for maximum leverage. Also made them fine 7/16" fine thread for more clamping force. :)
We will see.
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Have you had much trouble with the wheel bearing coming loose on your vehicle? It is mounted the same way. Of course my four mounting bolts are spread out much wider than the bearing mount for maximum leverage. Also made them fine 7/16" fine thread for more clamping force. :)
We will see.
The hubs in my car are definitely mounted differently to that. Modified MacPherson strut in the front and multi-link in the rear.
Whilst I do not doubt you will be able to torque the hell out of the mount bolts and generate a bucket load of clamping force, my worry is that the said clamping force is only being applied to a small area of the mount plate. Which, unless you hardened it, will likely deform under heavy vibration and shock loadings, causing bolt torques to become unstable and 'wind off' and also causing the slots in the mount plate to get thrashed out.
Personally I hope you're right and it works trouble-free for decades to come.
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Wow Eng I like the jig mate oh and the build looks good too! ;)
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Have you had much trouble with the wheel bearing coming loose on your vehicle? It is mounted the same way. Of course my four mounting bolts are spread out much wider than the bearing mount for maximum leverage. Also made them fine 7/16" fine thread for more clamping force. :)
We will see.
I'd be willing to bet that as long as those 4 bolts STAY tight, the coefficient of friction between the plates is pretty high. If your worried, I'd cut some key stock to fill the void on a couple of the slots when you get the chain tight. As the chain stretches, just grind a little more the the key stock. It's not the best solution, but it might be the cheapest and easiest. Just my two cents.
By the way... It's looking very nice Eng!
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Wow Eng I like the jig mate oh and the build looks good too! ;)
Thanks! The jig is just 4 sawhorses leveled with a digital level and a nice straight aluminum bar. ;)
I'd be willing to bet that as long as those 4 bolts STAY tight, the coefficient of friction between the plates is pretty high. If your worried, I'd cut some key stock to fill the void on a couple of the slots when you get the chain tight. As the chain stretches, just grind a little more the the key stock. It's not the best solution, but it might be the cheapest and easiest. Just my two cents.
By the way... It's looking very nice Eng!
Thanks!
I am actually not to worried about the bolts staying tight. There will be a cinch bolt that pulls the carrier back to tighten the chain. Between that and the friction between the plates like you mentioned it shouldn't be a problem.
I think everyone is concerned because this setup just doesn't look normal. But the 4 bolts are spread apart by 9.5". When the sprocket tries to twist the bearing, the front tabs will be pushed against the mount while the rear tabs will try to pull away. The 9.5" separation gives lots of strength to resist that twist. I understand the concern of the SHCS not bearing on much area. Gonna need some nice washers.
Thanks for the input. I will be monitoring those bolts closely! ;D
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Personally I have no qualms about the bolts. It's the plate that concerns me. I hope it works well. Looks good.
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Got the top arms done. Pictures turned out bad. Take some later when its together and the lights are on....
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Bottom arm is getting closer. Lots of tig work. Just need to finish the elusive shock mount. ;D
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Personally I have no qualms about the bolts. It's the plate that concerns me. I hope it works well. Looks good.
That would be my concern as well. The knuckles on an F-150 are beefier where that bearing normally mounts up.
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More pictures please ;D Steve tells me the two of you got the top side of the chassis done :)
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More pictures please ;D Steve tells me the two of you got the top side of the chassis done :)
Welcome to the site!
Fall harvest has caused a work stoppage, but the top is mostly finished and he says he is coming back on Thursday to get me moving again. ;D
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Enigineer, How long is the axle shaft in this pic? Also could you make it work with plunging cv's?
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It is 28" long and made to work with 930 CV's. It just happens to be the same spline as the F-150 CV's. It is made by EMPI, and I got a great deal from Livewire on them. I think they offer them in inch increments, 26, 27, 28. 28 is the longest but I am not sure about the shorter lengths. I have set collars and spacers on there for measuring, but both ends are the same and look like the end hanging down.
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tHE ENGINE MOUNTS IN A REMOVABLE CRADLE i ASSUME?
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tHE ENGINE MOUNTS IN A REMOVABLE CRADLE i ASSUME?
I don't know yet. :( I need to get on getting an engine asap! Is Ebay my friend?
I would like to get one that is complete with the gauges for that bike/motor, etc. I am not to excited about ordering a "complete" motor kit that shows up with a tangle of wiring harness and tubes and hoses that hooked up to god knows what. I just wonder for the first time if I need to buy a complete bike so I know I have everything and can see how it works together.
I just don't enjoy the idea of trying to track down parts after buying a "complete" kit. Am I worrying about it to much?
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the only things you might not get with a complete kit: radiator, fan temp sensor.... ambient air pressue sensor.. usually that one is mounted to the frame and not the engine.
the hoses and such are pretty easy to do, even more so if you have a manual... id be more worried about getting an engine that knocks..lol
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Found a "complete" busa this am on cragslist for $2000. In Texas. Also found a online place that for a membership will give access to ins vehicles. Many whole wrecked bikes that you can inspect for $2000. Probably get half your money back by selling off parts. Anyone every buy something from one of those places?? Sorry back to regular scheduled program.........
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the only things you might not get with a complete kit: radiator, fan temp sensor.... ambient air pressue sensor.. usually that one is mounted to the frame and not the engine.
the hoses and such are pretty easy to do, even more so if you have a manual... id be more worried about getting an engine that knocks..lol
That is the exact stuff I am worried about spending days and days tracking down.
Found a "complete" busa this am on cragslist for $2000. In Texas. Also found a online place that for a membership will give access to ins vehicles. Many whole wrecked bikes that you can inspect for $2000. Probably get half your money back by selling off parts. Anyone every buy something from one of those places?? Sorry back to regular scheduled program.........
I am always concerned about the complete bikes that are to good of a deal..... Stolen or tranny problems etc. I will have to get serious about looking around, I am waiting for Fabr to offer me one of his 4 for a mockup. rofl
Oh BTW Carl, go ahead and snoop around my shop pictures. I am confident that you won't find any "questionable" things going on like picture of Enemy and BF. rofl
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Fabr dont need no Busa's, he is going V8. The ins salvage stuff if close enough. You can crank, cant drive since the front wheel is wraped to rear, but still put in gear and do a burnout. rofl rofl
Just trying to be more observant, these guys dont miss nothing.
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Fabr dont need no Busa's, he is going V8. The ins salvage stuff if close enough. You can crank, cant drive since the front wheel is wraped to rear, but still put in gear and do a burnout. rofl rofl
Just trying to be more observant, these guys dont miss nothing.
Gonna start calling you Carlriddle Bourne. ;D
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Carl Bourne will be fine. LMAO Shop looks good.
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I don't know yet. :( I need to get on getting an engine asap! Is Ebay my friend?
I would like to get one that is complete with the gauges for that bike/motor, etc. I am not to excited about ordering a "complete" motor kit that shows up with a tangle of wiring harness and tubes and hoses that hooked up to god knows what. I just wonder for the first time if I need to buy a complete bike so I know I have everything and can see how it works together.
I just don't enjoy the idea of trying to track down parts after buying a "complete" kit. Am I worrying about it to much?
I was just asking as I see a permanent cross brace above th e engine bay.
IMO you can get a fair deal on ebay buting busa engines if you demand lots and lots of pics of the engine including well lit inside pics of each intake port and each exhaust port all the way to the valves.Also most of the guys are fairly honest but also demand close up pics of all included hardware. Demand close up pics of all harness connectors and do not buy if the instrument cluster plug or either of the ecm plugs are broken. Costly to get replacements at best,impossible at times. Buying without a good instrument cluster as there are plenty of good ones available separately. Also try to buy within driving distance and do an off ebay deal in person. I've never been turned down as the seller can get asking price and save ebay and paypal fees. I usually save some bux as the buyer also as the seller is willing to deal a bit. If you get all the pics including the engine numbers and run the numbers through local PD you're safe.
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BTW,IMO you'll pay approx 2500 bux buying a complete busa engine "kit" less guage cluster on ebay and if it has road rash on either side cover it's a good bet it's a good engine from a downed bike. should be fine. On the other hand,no rash means DO NOT BUY unless you know for sure the history of the bike. IMO .
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Great way to build a buggy. Looks like you have some experience at it.
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Thanks Fabr. Doing some motor shopping. :)
Thanks Sandy. First buggy build, but I have done lots of fab work.
My brother came to help and we made some progress on Turkey day! ;D
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FOOKEN A
E-Farmer that looks great :o ;D
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Looking really nice carl!
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:o Wow :o Did you'll not eat? Perfect example of spending years to plan months to build, unlike my months of plainning and years to build.
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I remember when it was just soma sanr tires on the floor 8)
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WOW! THAT IS SICK!!!!
It has a "dont even think about getting in my effin way" look to it.... ;D
HELL YEA!
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Stout looking. Kick Ass kind of car. What is the predicted weight?
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Thanks guys!
I have no clue Fast. I can't pick it up anymore.... rofl
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that does look great! I guess you'll be making a dts trip this spring after all!! ;) ;)
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FOOKEN A
E-Farmer that looks great :o ;D
4:23 AM Spec? Holy cow you got up before I went to bed. rofl
that does look great! I guess you'll be making a dts trip this spring after all!! ;) ;)
I hope! I just need someone to wreck a busa in front of my shop now. ;D
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Not sleeping much ;D
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Looks fookin awesome Carl! It has been well worth the wait. I can't wait to see more of your progress. First rate craftsmanship on this build. ;)
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Wow Eng that looks cool man!! 8) Is that a Rorty? ??? It looks sorta similar.
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Not sleeping much ;D
Yeah the poor bugger's been fooked up by stink'n doctors to try and show there's nothing wrong with him! eyes Friggen Assholes!!!!
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ff:
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Looks fookin awesome Carl! It has been well worth the wait. I can't wait to see more of your progress. First rate craftsmanship on this build. ;)
Thanks!
Wow Eng that looks cool man!! 8) Is that a Rorty? ??? It looks sorta similar.
Get your Eyes checked.
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that looks great! just a question but why not just put the 6th link in? I do and have broke one once from an axle kick damn drive shaft super store!! and still had 5 left to keep me up!
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definitely more fun than the utv! ;D ;)
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that looks great! just a question but why not just put the 6th link in? I do and have broke one once from an axle kick damn drive shaft super store!! and still had 5 left to keep me up!
I thought about it, but I didn't like how it pushed my forward links further forward on the five link bracket. The way I mounted the forward frame mounts at a raked angle made my top forward link mount on the five link bracket right where the sixth bar would have been.
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SSSSOOOOOOO ;D
E-Farmer...you gonna be takin me on a ride this spring 8)
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SSSSOOOOOOO ;D
E-Farmer...you gonna be takin me on a ride this spring 8)
Absolutely! I hope it is running and we won't just be making Vroom Vroom noizes with that RZR towing us around..... ;D
I need to chop the top an inch or two but that isn't in the schedule.....
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Engineer
Why do you want to chop the top? I think it look's awesome the way it is. Cool looks short and stout. That thing should track like it's on a rail.
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Some of us are tall, ;D and the additional head room would be good for the test run. Looking good, any luck on engine?
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Engineer
Why do you want to chop the top? I think it look's awesome the way it is. Cool looks short and stout. That thing should track like it's on a rail.
Thanks Fast! Always going to be nitpicky things on a first try. I guess I need to get the seats mounted before making any rash moves. :)
Some of us are tall, ;D and the additional head room would be good for the test run. Looking good, any luck on engine?
You'll fit, I guarantee it. ;D
Engine?
ff:
The fact that I need luck is what is concerning me most. drowning
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Looks good - something to do when you get snowed in........ LMAO
Chop the top? How much head room do you have as it sits now? I wish i had a bit more. Belts will stretch A LOT in a roll over. I would not be so quick to chop the top?
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Just be sure to leave room for the flat bill. rofl rofl
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Next your going to mention the baggy pants shit nono
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Engineer,you should try to have 6" overhead clearance as yummi says the belts AND your body stretches a lot more than most people realize.
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Yup,
even in a good helmet, your head hitting the cage will definately RING YOUR BELL
Fabr and I speak from experience on the you and the harness stretch way more than you think...
After my aggrivated corner to corner, barrel extravogansa I got rid of the harness cuz I had to pull it a couple of more inches than before to get it cynched up to where it was supposed to be, before the crash
But I kept the helmet and wore it with pride...road rash and all rofl
But any impact to the helmet it should be inspected and then replaced since the suspension material may be damaged ...that is it's job and it has done it ;D
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It has 6-8". I haven't had a seat in and made vroom vroom noises for a while. It will be fine.
I am about ready to mount up the seats to know for sure. There are some other things I should do first. Rear upper shock mounts, rack spacer and tie rods, add a cou[ple more misc gussets, finish welding the whole chassis so I don't have to keep worrying about covering things that need welded. Mabey get a steering wheel in place to help with deciding seat position?
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It has 6-8". I haven't had a seat in and made vroom vroom noises for a while. It will be fine.
I am about ready to mount up the seats to know for sure. There are some other things I should do first. Rear upper shock mounts, rack spacer and tie rods, add a cou[ple more misc gussets, finish welding the whole chassis so I don't have to keep worrying about covering things that need welded. Mabey get a steering wheel in place to help with deciding seat position?
Absolutely. Pedals also.
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engine
You gonna put any cross bracing in the windshield area? Make it look like a preruner.
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There used to be an issue where users would end up getting two sessions, one on www.dtsfab.com and one on dtsfab.com which is now resolved. A side effect to that is all your images which you did not specify the www on are now broken. Sorry. As a side note, you can specify bracket img width=# and height=# end bracket to speed up the page.
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engine
You gonna put any cross bracing in the windshield area? Make it look like a preruner.
In roundy round they call it "The Petty Bar"
It gives the front of the Halo 1/2 again the strength, if it gets tied into the lower pod
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Absolutely. Pedals also.
WUT? So I have to get it all finished before I know where to mount the seat?
You remind me of Nancy Pelosi! "We have to pass the bill to know what is in it" rofl rofl rofl
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engine
You gonna put any cross bracing in the windshield area? Make it look like a preruner.
In roundy round they call it "The Petty Bar"
It gives the front of the Halo 1/2 again the strength, if it gets tied into the lower pod
I don't know. Then it will need some wire mesh and mud all over it.
I might cut some and see what they look like. Can definately add later on.
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WUT? So I have to get it all finished before I know where to mount the seat?
You remind me of Nancy Pelosi! "We have to pass the bill to know what is in it" rofl rofl rofl
You don't realize how important pedal positioning is till it's wrong. LOL!!!!
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Thanks!
Get your Eyes checked.
So it's definately not a Rorty then Eng... rofl
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There used to be an issue where users would end up getting two sessions, one on www.dtsfab.com and one on dtsfab.com which is now resolved. A side effect to that is all your images which you did not specify the www on are now broken. Sorry. As a side note, you can specify bracket img width=# and height=# end bracket to speed up the page.
I ran the equivalent of a search and replace on the database. Images all work now.
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I am trying to figure out how to do a shifter cable on a busa. I plan to use a morse cable. I am starting with a bare shift shaft. eyes
The splined arm that goes on the shift shaft is very short. A cable or linkage could be hooked directly to the little fella then to the shifter, but it seems to me that a longer arm would put less stress on the push-pull cable and possibly give better feel and actuation.
Does anyone know where to source a longer arm with the correct spline / diameter?
Am I making this to hard? Buy the splined link off Fleabay and connet the cable directly to it?
Thoughts?
Pictures?
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Use the stock arm. You DO NOT want a longr arm .It will decrease any "feel" there is in the shift. You also do not need or want anything over 6:1 on the shifter either. Believe me. I have BTDT for sure. Ne reason to repeat my mistake.
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BTW,I just LOVE my super short shifter throw. IMO it will help extend second gear dog life. It is a MUCH MORE positive feeling shift and you really know you have fully engaged the dogs. I feel my first tranny's second gear failure was directly due to too much shifter ratio. On a busa second is the first to go.
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Are you running a cable? What size?
Throw me a couple more bones....
What is the clutch cylinder banjo fitting size? Is it common? Can I buy one for a braided hose or how do you deal with it?
What is the little hose hose running off of the thermostat? housing for?
Can you get the quick coupling ends for the fuel line or do you just clamp a hose on the pipe?
Do you know the difference between the fuel pump with built in sender and the pump with separate sender? Is the wiring harness the same either way?
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-3 AN standard,I think,10 mm banjo. If your radiator is above the engine delete the little hose. It's an air purge line to the reservoir bottle on the bike.I cut off the tube and silver solder a -3 an steel fitting onto it. Not positive on the last one.
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The cable is 1/4" morse.
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Sweet thanks!
I really couldn't figure out the heater hose. rofl
How big of a radiator are you running? and any issues with heat?
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Scirocco size. I forget the brand. I'll look tomorrow . NO issues at all with cooling
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Radiator size is good, but Fabr like to run fewer much shorter fan blades. ;D kick
Did you get the fans sorted out?
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bbbbwwwwaaaaahahahahahahaaaaa
i forgot about that rofl
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LOL!!!! Even without all but 6 blades gone I don't worry about cooling. Flexalite gave me new blades and a new shroud but would not replace the complete unit.
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What is the clutch cylinder banjo fitting size? Is it common? Can I buy one for a braided hose or how do you deal with it? Yup Russel makes them. 10mm banjo to a stainless braided teflon lined -3AN fitting works really nice. Summit sells all of it but it ain't cheap.
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What is the little hose hose running off of the thermostat? housing for? Like Master said it's the burp line.
Can you get the quick coupling ends for the fuel line or do you just clamp a hose on the pipe? Yup once again Russel makes them and Summit sells them. Makes it real easy. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/)
Do you know the difference between the fuel pump with built in sender and the pump with separate sender? Is the wiring harness the same either way? Sorry don't know.
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Scirocco size. I forget the brand. I'll look tomorrow . NO issues at all with cooling
Got dimensions? I kind of like the looks of dougs Civic radiator that already has the AN fittings and the fan mounted. Curious how the sizes compare.
What is the clutch cylinder banjo fitting size? Is it common? Can I buy one for a braided hose or how do you deal with it? Yup Russel makes them. 10mm banjo to a stainless braided teflon lined -3AN fitting works really nice. Summit sells all of it but it ain't cheap.
What is the little hose hose running off of the thermostat? housing for? Like Master said it's the burp line.
Can you get the quick coupling ends for the fuel line or do you just clamp a hose on the pipe? Yup once again Russel makes them and Summit sells them. Makes it real easy. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/
Do you know the difference between the fuel pump with built in sender and the pump with separate sender? Is the wiring harness the same either way? Sorry don't know.
Thanks! Very helpful. Can't beat having the part number. ;D
That picture makes me think I could run a direct linkage on the shifter. That would definately keep the feel better than using a cable.
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The scirroco is about twice as wide. The civic is a nice and mounted in the right airflow would prob keep it cool, but
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As long as you hve a thermostat...There is no such thing as a "TOO BIG" of a radiator
Well within reason
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That picture makes me think I could run a direct linkage on the shifter. That would definately keep the feel better than using a cable.
I know alot of people run cables but I personally think they suck.
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Got dimensions? I kind of like the looks of dougs Civic radiator that already has the AN fittings and the fan mounted. Curious how the sizes compare.
Thanks! Very helpful. Can't beat having the part number. ;D
That picture makes me think I could run a direct linkage on the shifter. That would definately keep the feel better than using a cable.
Too small for a busa IMO especially if you run in the heat.I'll have to check again the size of a scirocco rad.
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I know alot of people run cables but I personally think they suck.
Most people try to run cables with too many tight bends and ,yes they suck then. Keep the runs as straight as possible and bends as large a radius as possible and a cable works fine,IMO. There are also very flexible,low backlash cables that are the cats ass but pricey as hell.
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Merged this with the busa shifter thread
I think my ears are bleeding rofl
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I need a couple more answers. ;D We have discussed it before but what thickness and spec of aluminum should I use for the floor. Also for the firewall between occupants and motor. It may serve a dual purpose of exhaust heat shield. And lastly what size aluminum or steel for bodywork?
I need a small amount of tube but I can't make a minimum, so I want to get the sheets as well.
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Do you know the difference between the fuel pump with built in sender and the pump with separate sender? Is the wiring harness the same either way?
Separate sender is from the first generation bikes (like mine) w/external pump. No difference in wiring pin-out. Thats the sender I used to my programmable fuel gauge.
I have a Morse cable that may interest you for sale depending on the length you need. I had to go a bit longer for the changes I made.
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Separate sender is from the first generation bikes (like mine) w/external pump. No difference in wiring pin-out. Thats the sender I used to my programmable fuel gauge.
I have a Morse cable that may interest you for sale depending on the length you need. I had to go a bit longer for the changes I made.
What do you mean first generation? I thought that refered to 99-07, but I have seen pumps / senders both ways advertised for the 99-07 years. And there is an external pump? Is this factory? Why does everyone weld a pump bung in the tank if this is an option?
I am a ways from figuring the cable length, but I will let you know. I will need one for reverse as well. 8)
Does everyone use a regular pull cable on the throttle? Or a push pull style cable?
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External pump was used on the first gen ECU bikes 99-00. Second through forth gen ECU used the internal pump, 01-07. Not a lot of first gen parts around, might be why people went for the newer tanks. Also, I think Fabr had his radiator made from the guys at SRS where I had mine built.
I will get you the specs on my cable this evening so you have some reference
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What is the clutch cylinder banjo fitting size? Is it common? Can I buy one for a braided hose or how do you deal with it? Yup Russel makes them. 10mm banjo to a stainless braided teflon lined -3AN fitting works really nice. Summit sells all of it but it ain't cheap.
{image removed because it was huge}
What is the little hose hose running off of the thermostat? housing for? Like Master said it's the burp line.
Can you get the quick coupling ends for the fuel line or do you just clamp a hose on the pipe? Yup once again Russel makes them and Summit sells them. Makes it real easy. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640850/)
Do you know the difference between the fuel pump with built in sender and the pump with separate sender? Is the wiring harness the same either way? Sorry don't know.
I can get you custom lines made with the ends you needs for far less than piecing adapters together.
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don't know if anyone is looking but i have 3 or 4 stock fuel pumps for the busa's. I run one of enemy's cables on my v-6 rail for the throttle w/o issues and have one tighter bend at the motor.
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Thanks for the info Guys! I need to get the motor stuffed in the hole to answer a whole lota questions about fuel tanks radiator sizes etc.
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looks great
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looks great
Thanks! Rear shock mount isn't finished.... It will look like the plan when it's done. ;)
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As soon as you get a seat in it I might have to come over and make VROOM VROOM noises
Looks REALL GOOD E-Farmer mm: jj: mm:
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Thanks Spec!
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;D
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Just by looking at the way the front tire's are setting. It looks like it well have a nice short turn radius.
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Just by looking at the way the front tire's are setting. It looks like it well have a nice short turn radius.
I hope so. I just don't know if it would be worth giving up some ackerman to get the outer tire to turn more? Then again if the inner tire is fighting the outer then it may be a wash. drowning
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IMO,don't give up ackerman.
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I hope so. I just don't know if it would be worth giving up some ackerman to get the outer tire to turn more? Then again if the inner tire is fighting the outer then it may be a wash. drowning
The outer tire does most of the turning... As the weight is shifted to that side of the car when you are turning in to a corner. It might be worth losing just a bit to get the outside tire to turn in some more. Can you make it adjustable, so you can do bit of testing?
By the way Carl, that rail is looking sweet as hell. I'm starting to wish I would've built a two seater. That way if I did something really stupid, I could allow one of my buddies to experience the thrill with me. kick rofl
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I have played with it and making the outside tire turn more without the inner will cause an increase in turning radius.
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I have played with it and making the outside tire turn more without the inner will cause an increase in turning radius.
And making the inside tire turn more without the outside will decrease the turning radius ???
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I have played with it and making the outside tire turn more without the inner will cause an increase in turning radius.
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LiveWire, Have a look see at this pic.
Can you see how much more the inside wheel is turning compared to the outside. If Carl can take a bit of turn, out of the inside wheel, and transfer that to the outside wheel, I think you'll see that the turn radius will get smaller.
He doesn't have to take very much at all. I understand that the inside wheel needs to turn further than the out side because the radius of the inside wheels path is shorter than that of the outside. That part is easy, however. If the outside wheel doesn't turn in enough to match the turning radius of the inside wheel plus the difference between the tires you will have increased your turning radius as the weight is transferred to the outside tire in a turn. Do you follow?
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The only time that I think it will make a difference is in low speed turning. I hope I never get to lock at high speed. :o Anyway at low speed I don't think that there will be as much weight transfer to the outer tire. On the other hand because of the sand tires I chose the inner tires will not have much turning power anyway.
I only have the tie rod ears tacked on the uprights but I think I am going with Livewires experience.
I have played with it and making the outside tire turn more without the inner will cause an increase in turning radius.
It would be difficult to make it strong and adjustable. Plus it would screw with bumpsteer unless you also made the rack spacer adjustable.
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So your going to shorten the tie rod mounts on spindle? On a posi rear buggy can it turn too much. Your going to get a certain amount of push w/o a diff right. Thanks Carl, from another Carl. rofl
Watching real close, I have something in the works. ;D
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So your going to shorten the tie rod mounts on spindle? On a posi rear buggy can it turn too much. Your going to get a certain amount of push w/o a diff right. Thanks Carl, from another Carl. rofl
Watching real close, I have something in the works. ;D
I don't think I will change anything at this point. KPI really multiplies the angle on the hiems. I need to do a bit of clearancing for full droop anyway.
I am watching Carl. ;D
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Yes but the inside tire has a shorter radius then the outside tire. So the inside has to turn tighter then the outside. Walk in a small circle your inside foot will have more angle then your outside foot.
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And making the inside tire turn more without the outside will decrease the turning radius ???
Only if you did not already have Ackermann. If you did, it would make things worse and turning radius would increase.
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LiveWire, Have a look see at this pic.
Can you see how much more the inside wheel is turning compared to the outside. If Carl can take a bit of turn, out of the inside wheel, and transfer that to the outside wheel, I think you'll see that the turn radius will get smaller.
He doesn't have to take very much at all. I understand that the inside wheel needs to turn further than the out side because the radius of the inside wheels path is shorter than that of the outside. That part is easy, however. If the outside wheel doesn't turn in enough to match the turning radius of the inside wheel plus the difference between the tires you will have increased your turning radius as the weight is transferred to the outside tire in a turn. Do you follow?
I cannot see the picture because it is hosted on Photo Bucket which is blocked from my current location. Based on the words in the original post, I took it as that he either had full Ackermann now or not quite enough toe out on turn to be Ackermann. In that case, reducing toe out on turn would increase turning radius even if that allows the outside tire to turn more.
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It would be difficult to make it strong and adjustable. Plus it would screw with bumpsteer unless you also made the rack spacer adjustable.
If you wanted to play with it, it does not have to be permanently adjustable. Once it will roll, you can lock the wheels and push it in a circle on pavement. Just use the tie rods to adjust the toe out and see what happens. If you find a better setup, you can then look at changing it so you get that amount of toe out with the wheels turned and straight and whatever amount of static toe you want.
Spacing the rack back will increase toe out on turn. Of course you have to adjust the tie rod length for static toe.
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That is a great idea of a way to play with the ackerman (adjusting the tie rods). It has full Ackerman.
My only question on turning is when the rear tires are locked together and it's in the sand. :)
Well, been doing lots of welding. The parts that are on it are done. ;D
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Everything worked out pretty well. The weak link was the operator. :(
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My rollover jig isn't as fancy as Fabrs.
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The adjustable heigth jig is pretty handy though.
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Before you start painting lines all over it there are a couple tubes missing. rofl Waiting on Material.
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just a thought while your welding, maybe a brace tube for the lateral links would be a good idea. there is more load there than you think.
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Looking totally BADD ASS Eng! Love yer design for enclosing over that tube, very stout.
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Looking totally BADD ASS Eng! Love yer design for enclosing over that tube, very stout.
Thanks! Can't wait to test it for tough.
just a thought while your welding, maybe a brace tube for the lateral links would be a good idea. there is more load there than you think.
Ok start painting on it!
Actually, The bearing carrier is getting some final machining then I will get some detailed pictures out back. I actually think that 6 tubes tying into the 1/4" 5-link/bearing carrier housing is enough but tell me your concerns!
I hope to get the motor set in place this week to start thinking about how to tie its mounts in as well.
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Looks good Eng! ;) I gotta ask though how much do ya think it'll weigh? Is that steel that you cut up to make the front shock mounts would that be 6mm? Or is it closer to 4mm?
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Crazy, not even in the dirt yet and it is on its lid? Don't let it sit too long like that. It might just want to assume that position from habit if you do.
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Looks good Eng! ;) I gotta ask though how much do ya think it'll weigh? Is that steel that you cut up to make the front shock mounts would that be 6mm? Or is it closer to 4mm?
It will probably weigh around 1500 lbs. I can still roll it over by hand. How heavy can it be? ;D
The bulkhead pieces are 11 gauge so close to 3mm. Where the shock mount is there are two welded together so it is a little over 6mm total. plus it is boxed top and bottom.
Crazy, not even in the dirt yet and it is on its lid? Don't let it sit too long like that. It might just want to assume that position from habit if you do.
I am training it to do backflips.
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Thanks! Can't wait to test it for tough.
Ok start painting on it!
Actually, The bearing carrier is getting some final machining then I will get some detailed pictures out back. I actually think that 6 tubes tying into the 1/4" 5-link/bearing carrier housing is enough but tell me your concerns!
I hope to get the motor set in place this week to start thinking about how to tie its mounts in as well.
I am not referring to the wheel bearing carrier but rather the lateral link mount on the chassis. since your there just add a link tube to back up the pocket.
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A small rant.
To the person who "drew" up the Busa and posted the drawing online, thanks for nothing jerkoff. Are you related to Stevie Wonder? Seriousely did you use a yardstick to measure it up? When at first glance my tape measure told me you were drunk I should have listened, but no I thought maybe I wasn't seeing the holes quite right, after all who would go to all the trouble of drawing the motor in 3D if they weren't going to do it right... So I made parts off your drawing only to find out nothing fits because some crosseyed inbred goat lover must have had his head up his ass while drawing pretty pictures. My advice, stick to your crayons you half breed poser, if you had ever built anything in real life you would know that the numbers matter to people actually building something. Next time you draw something don't use google earth to get a picture of it and scale from there, It will make all of our lives a little better. kick :l 9: :slp
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A small rant.
To the person who "drew" up the Busa and posted the drawing online, thanks for nothing jerkoff. Are you related to Stevie Wonder? Seriousely did you use a yardstick to measure it up? When at first glance my tape measure told me you were drunk I should have listened, but no I thought maybe I wasn't seeing the holes quite right, after all who would go to all the trouble of drawing the motor in 3D if they weren't going to do it right... So I made parts off your drawing only to find out nothing fits because some crosseyed inbred goat lover must have had his head up his ass while drawing pretty pictures. My advice, stick to your crayons you half breed poser, if you had ever built anything in real life you would know that the numbers matter to people actually building something. Next time you draw something don't use google earth to get a picture of it and scale from there, It will make all of our lives a little better. kick :l 9: :slp
Dam Eng sorry to here you having all this bull. Don't suppose you want to share who is causing it.
Any way here is a link to a possible Busa for cheap.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Photos-Motorcycle-crashes-at-157mph-112264509.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Photos-Motorcycle-crashes-at-157mph-112264509.html)
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Should have borrowed one of Fabr's i think he only has 3 or 4 layin around rofl
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Holy cow........He lived through that?
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Holy cow........He lived through that?
Amazing if he did!
Dam Eng sorry to here you having all this bull. Don't suppose you want to share who is causing it.
Any way here is a link to a possible Busa for cheap.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Photos-Motorcycle-crashes-at-157mph-112264509.html (http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Photos-Motorcycle-crashes-at-157mph-112264509.html)
Thanks! Mabey that one is bent up enough it would fit in my mounts. ;D rofl
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Fill us in on where the CAD "drawing" is so no one else gets effed . How bad is it ?
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Holy cow........He lived through that?
My guess is that will be a relative term loosely defined to include meals on wheels, diapers and drool bibs.
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"Calazo, who was driving on a revoked license, suffered extensive injuries and was air-lifted to Scottsdale Healthcare Osborn Hospital. At last check, he was in extremely critical condition.
Once he is released from the hospital, Calazo will face charges of aggravated DUI, reckless driving and criminal speeding."
Sounds like someone expects him to recover...... LMAO
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My guess is that will be a relative term loosely defined to include meals on wheels, diapers and drool bibs.
rofl LMAO That's just wrong but!! LMAO LMAO rofl
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Fill us in on where the CAD "drawing" is so no one else gets effed . How bad is it ?
It was over a year ago that I found it. Can't find the link, but I believe that it was on your favoritest website and drawn by one of your favorite people. All I can say.
It was just bad enough that I should have started over. Anywhere from .06" to half a hole off. kick
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I quit trusting info from anyone unless I know the source a long time ago for this very reason!! sorry to hear about the rats nest of problems they have created, you'll just have to get an engine and re-work as little as possible. it does look good so far though!! ;D
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It was over a year ago that I found it. Can't find the link, but I believe that it was on your favoritest website and drawn by one of your favorite people. All I can say.
It was just bad enough that I should have started over. Anywhere from .06" to half a hole off. kick
Sorry to hear but it doesn't surprise me.Sooner or later people will realize that person is FOS.
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Ok, I finished the one sided sprocket bearing mount that will never work and machined it flat so I could mock it up and mount the motor. ;D
Please point out where it is going to fail. kick
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Somebody should make this cradle for mounting the rear of a Busa.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dtsfab.com%2Findex%2FMGalleryItem.php%3Fid%3D1275&hash=47f0c4bf27c5575c404e78e7d8a1e6c82c13d48d)
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Please point out where it is going to fail.
8)
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Quot by Engineer
Somebody should make this cradle for mounting the rear of a Busa.
Look's like you already did Eng.
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I gad a little bird tell me you got a new toy...I wanna see!!!
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Looking great Eng!
bounce
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WOW! You have been busy. That looks great!
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I like it! ;D ;D ;D Keep the pics coming.
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Thanks Guys! ;D
Did an adjustable pedal mount (the two pinch bolts will be clamp handles).
< Insert rant here > Why can't Wilwood sell a hanging gas pedal to match the clutch and brake. eyes Waiting to see them in action but probably won't use them again.
Tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs , tabs, tabs, tabs, tabs.
I did make a handy jig for putting them on though. I will try to remember to take a pic of it.
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And RC51 Rhino got me a great deal on something I have to get mounted before showing. 8)
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LOoking great!
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Dang, that is really beginning to take shape. Good for you. maybe being snowed in aint such a bad thing?
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Looks awesome! I wish I had the resources to make my own stuff. Are you worried about the mounts loosening and sliding onthe bar? Seems that if you grooved them to fit the bar would create more surface contact like a bicycle neck on a handlebar. Anyway, you know way more than I do about these things. Can't wait to see it done!
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I thought the same on mounts trying to move, but looks like the 3 bolts on ea side are a tight fit around tube? And since tha go pedel is not mounted with them, should be no problem, thats the one he'll be stomping most anyway. rofl Sliding pedals, sliding seats, tilt steering, whats next a/c and heated seats??
Looking good, keep it coming.
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LOoking great!
Thanks!
Dang, that is really beginning to take shape. Good for you. maybe being snowed in aint such a bad thing?
Thanks! Yah, not so bad.
Looks awesome! I wish I had the resources to make my own stuff. Are you worried about the mounts loosening and sliding onthe bar? Seems that if you grooved them to fit the bar would create more surface contact like a bicycle neck on a handlebar. Anyway, you know way more than I do about these things. Can't wait to see it done!
I thought the same on mounts trying to move, but looks like the 3 bolts on ea side are a tight fit around tube? And since tha go pedel is not mounted with them, should be no problem, thats the one he'll be stomping most anyway. rofl Sliding pedals, sliding seats, tilt steering, whats next a/c and heated seats??
Looking good, keep it coming.
Thanks guys!
I don't think the pedal mount will try to move much. Because the pedals are hanging down about 8" below the mount, when you push on the pedal it trys to twist the mount (locking it in place) much more than trying to slide them forward.
I still need to add the loud pedal.
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The single bearing mount looks to be sturdy and address my earlier concern about it.
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I really like your adjustable pedal mounts! That is very slick idea!!! bb: ee: ee:
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+1 looks great!
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The single bearing mount looks to be sturdy and address my earlier concern about it.
;)
I really like your adjustable pedal mounts! That is very slick idea!!! bb: ee: ee:
+1 looks great!
Thanks Guys!
As I mentioned earlier RC51 Rhino gave me a deal on these candles this light bar. ;D
http://www.rigidindustries.com/ (http://www.rigidindustries.com/)
I have been waiting to finalize the position of the eyebrow bar until I got the lightbar mounted. It's on, I added the roof bracing, some handles for getting in and out and steps on the side. I was waiting to put the steps on until I got the side sheets mounted. It was a lot easier working with the side panels with flat sides not having to work around the steps.
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Those LEd bars are very nice. Neat and trim.
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Dam eng! Light bar worth more then my whole car. I like the way you got it inset. Nice and clean. Keep hanging shit on that thing and you'll have to twin turbo the Busa.
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I really like the way that thing is looking! What do you think the final weight will be?
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I really like the way that thing is looking! What do you think the final weight will be?
With driver?
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WIth driver is all that matters. Empty doesn't mean shit.
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Then you have to specify which driver though. There was a guy in a local tractor pulling club that had to have someone else drive his tractor or he could not make weight. He finally got the club to bump up the class limit since he could not get the tractor weight down. The steering wheel rubbed his belly when he turned.
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Wanna start taking bets on final weight? That light bar didn't help..... However most of the tubing that I have added in the last month has been paper thin. I have a jockey that will drive it across the scale for me as well. rofl
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I really like the way the 40 looks on your car! I have the same spot for the same light on the RC car...hope to have it soon!
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1800# is my guess. 8) 8) 8)
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1650# w/jockey ;D I love the light bar video where guys drag light behind vehicle asphalt dirt into curbs damn thing still works at end.
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Then you have to specify which driver though. There was a guy in a local tractor pulling club that had to have someone else drive his tractor or he could not make weight. He finally got the club to bump up the class limit since he could not get the tractor weight down. The steering wheel rubbed his belly when he turned.
The only way to make it fair in competition is to have a weight limit including driver. That's why car weight with a full payload including driver is all that matters when it comes to performance. These things aren't radio controlled ya know. ;D ;D
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#1800 for a 2 seater now has me worried that I may be more like #2500 on my build!
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What thickness and type of aluminium did you use?
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The only way to make it fair in competition is to have a weight limit including driver. That's why car weight with a full payload including driver is all that matters when it comes to performance. These things aren't radio controlled ya know. ;D ;D
I agree for competition. For personal use, it would be to compare to their own machine though.
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What thickness and type of aluminium did you use?
I am using .063 on the side panels, firewalls etc and 1/8" for the floor. It is all 3003. I chose it because it is what the local material company carries and would deliver. Actually the 4' x 10' x .063 ran about $88 a sheet but I had to order the 1/8" in 5 X 10 because I wanted it to be structural with no seams and it cost $322. I really don't know what grade of aluminum would be best for this application but the 3003 seems to be working fine.
Did you weld that flange on the bottom of your dash or did you form it? It looks real good.
#1800 for a 2 seater now has me worried that I may be more like #2500 on my build!
A four seater has to be weighed with four people in it right? rofl
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I agree for competition. For personal use, it would be to compare to their own machine though.
I agree with this. In racing competition the weight limits have to be with driver to make the competition equal amongst different sized drivers. Actually a lite driver still has an advantage by being able to move ballast around but so be it.
In our recreational builds, I really want an idea of the machine weight more than caring about machine and driver. When we race four wheelers at the dunes it is fairly obvious the advantage the 95lb jockey has over a 225 lb guy but if they are running neck and neck I can tell you who is making more power.
The first problem is I don't believe anyones weight claims unless we roll across the scale back to back. Not because people are necessarily dishonest but scales can vary widely and some people exagerate. I saw a single seat build a while back that finished was claiming 680#. Is that even possible? If so where is my extra 1000# coming from? Air shocks vs coil overs, bead locks and 31" tires vs 26" atv tires, Busa vs 600 I guess it all adds up.
I don't think it will weigh over 1500lb with no driver, but I have been wrong before. Durability per pound I think will be very good. ;D
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Speaking of weights......... The new Racer 1 car at Laughlin weighed 2950# with a full tank of gas.
Car has an LS3, Fortin and 35" tires. According to Bill Savage, "This isn't possible" and he is going the weigh the car every race............
Main part of the frame is 1.75 X .095, hence the scrutinay.......
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A car needs to have a favorable unsprung to sprung weight ratio for the suspension to work well. If you have a heavy unsprung you will NEED a heavier sprung car to keep the ratio in a working range . Otherwise the unsprung weight will begin to control the sprung instead of the other way around. Hence the need for a 2900# car. Those things unsprung weight is substantial .
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OK now I am thinking that #800 of people the buggy will be way heavy. With that much additional weight tuning of the bypass shocks and suspension will be tricky. I will not be jumping big as I have broken my back 2 times and have a chipped vertebrae from an older injury. It does not bother me I just do not want to do any more dammage. I plan on tuning for optimum suspension performance with 2 people. With 4 people the ride will still good just not at peak.
The bottom flange is tigged on. Don't look too close as my tigging skills are novice at best. I bought a Miller Matic 185 and learning now.
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Hey Engineer, are you still thinking about making it for the spring trip to LS? 8) 8) 8)
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Hey Engineer, are you still thinking about making it for the spring trip to LS? 8) 8) 8)
Thinking! That is about it.
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Well quit thinking and get back to work than!!
....I wanna ride this spring ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Well quit thinking and get back to work than!!
....I wanna ride this spring ;D ;D ;D ;D
+1!!!!!
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For shizzle!! Drag it down, well push it around like Masters, heck Enemy will give you a pull around the dunes. rofl rofl Really need to take some mental pics of that thing in person.
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Definitely cant wait to see this one in person
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Thanks guys! Believe me I am trying to get-er-dun.
Spec has first shotgun so I may have to abduct him from the Gulch on the way down. ;D
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Thanks guys! Believe me I am trying to get-er-dun.
Spec has first shotgun so I may have to abduct him from the Gulch on the way down. ;D
When ya thinking of doing that? I just talked to the crew about raiding the Gulch on the way down as well.... Think Spec can handle all of us??
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I believe Spec can handle bout anything. ;)
I got the shifter done. Instead of just welding a bolt on the end of the rod I decided to do it the hard way. eyes
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I have been doing some sheet metal work. Almost done except for the wing which is in CAD development.
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Those body panels look AWESOME!!! ee: ee: ee: Very nice work Engineer.
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Damn nice njob on the panels!
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HELL YEA!!!! LOOKING AWESOME!!!
Those are some dame fine looking lines on the body work!!!!
Hauling ass standing still..Love it!
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I have to admit, that is one really nice looking buggy Engineer!
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Very nice Eng. It pay's to be slow some time's.
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Thanks Guys!
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any luck with the wire harness?
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any luck with the wire harness?
Having some serious setbacks here. :'(
I need to get a few more things mounted before getting serious about the wiring. I want the battery, dash, switches and fuel pump in place before messing with the harness. So no luck yet.
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That fooker looks great E-Farmer
Altho...
You might want to put a small cross brake in those larger panels to keep the vibration rattle down...I'm afraid that they might be deafening, once they get to vibrating with the powerplant resonance
Just my 2 cents ;D
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Are you still making good progress, to make it for the spring trip to LS? :) :) :)
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Updates?
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Updates?
I dunno, I haven't been to the shop to see if anyone has worked on it for me.... rofl
I think that I have decided to skip the "just get it running" stage and go for a turbo upfront rather than have to rework a bunch of crap later to make it work. Radiator, fuel plumbing, exhaust, etc.
So I need to ask a bunch of questions and dig through some build logs to figure out where to head with it.
Does anyone make a kit for people that want to turbo but don't want to buy the bike specific plumbing? Or are you better off piecing it together, or buying a bike kit and just don't use or sell the parts that won't work?
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Do NOT buy a kit. Start with a good ball bearing fan ,an intercooler,some SS header tubing, a supplemental fuel system of your choice and your fab skills. Viola,1/2 the cost .Hell I forgot what engine you're using.
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Aha! I think it's a busa.Use a Hahn portfueler ot feed the thing. I also highly suggest you data log it to tune it also.Sneak up on the boost and skip the dyno.
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Oh ,don't forget the SS cast header flange for the busa . Makes for a professional header fab for sure that WILL NOT leak. Very important with a turbo.
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Oh ,don't forget the SS cast header flange for the busa . Makes for a professional header fab for sure that WILL NOT leak. Very important with a turbo.
Hey that SS header flange sounds like a good start. I will have to find one of those.
Aha! I think it's a busa.Use a Hahn portfueler ot feed the thing. I also highly suggest you data log it to tune it also.Sneak up on the boost and skip the dyno.
So does Hahn sell just the portfueler setup.....
I need to do some research when I get time.
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All ya need to know about SS source for tubes and SS flange for busa.
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=2342.0 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=2342.0)
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Hey that SS header flange sounds like a good start. I will have to find one of those.
So does Hahn sell just the portfueler setup.....
I need to do some research when I get time.
Probably but the Split Second box is simple and plenty adequate unless you plan on 20+ PSI. Even then ibt is fine for us.
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I like all this turbo talk..lol. What size turbo's are we talking about here. Do you think something like off of a Ford Probe, or maybe off of a small Chrysler 4-cyl? Does the size of the "air box" if you will, have an affect of how the turbo will work? Too many more questions....im gonna do some searching...
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I'm not a fan of using any OEM turbos. However ,size depends on many factors. I am finding that for 6-10 PSI a Garrett Gt25R is a good choice for a busa. Makes boost by 4K rpm and is very drivable. Higher boosts MAY need a larger hairdryer such as a GT 35 R or equivalent.
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updates yet,engineer?
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updates yet,engineer?
Nupe, Shop has a large project, buggy is under a tarp but not forgotten!!
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Nupe, Shop has a large project, buggy is under a tarp but not forgotten!!
That's good, was starting to wonder. ;) ;)
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Nupe, Shop has a large project, buggy is under a tarp but not forgotten!!
So is the buggy still under the trap yet?
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So is the buggy still under the trap yet?
Yep, till January. Been thinking about it a lot though. ;D
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Yep, till January. Been thinking about it a lot though. ;D
Good. Hopefully you will have it done for the spring trip. ;D ;D ;D
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did you make those wheel adapters?
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Yep, till January. Been thinking about it a lot though. ;D
So did you blow off the cob webs yet? ;D ;D ;D
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did you make those wheel adapters?
The ones that we couldn't decide on the brake setup on?
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Anything new to report? ??? ??? ??? Really like the spindles and hub carriers in the back. Looks great.
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Really hoping he is gonna drag his butt the the fall meet. They'll be sommuch new crap we not get to ride for all the examining.
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have you had time to get back on it?
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Still under the tarp. :'(
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Y?
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Last 10% is toughest. Make a punch list and knock 'em out.
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Bueller, Bueller?? Seen you poking around here, just curious if you've looked under the tarp?
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Boy,really! I thought I took forever to finish..........................
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you HAVE to get it ready for the spring gathering this year! lol just going to have to make the time lol.
hope to see you there.
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Got about 2 months til trip, really hope you've looked under tarp to make sure buggy is still there.
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Either he's been really really busy or .................................. ???
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Either he's been really really busy or .................................. ???
Yah ???...
Blood clot somehow got in my lung and they made me go to the hospital. But I am free again. ;)
This thing is gonna run... I named it slow build because that is how things happen around here. Several people called this week and gave me their dune schedules and invites. Might have to be the Raptor this year...
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NO problem!! Come on down!!! The wife will have her quad and so will I.
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YES WHAT HE SAID!!!
Im bringin the quad down again and a few others are as well!
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I'll bring a quad too, to far not to have a plan B. But I'll have an open seat, or two. ;D ;D
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Sounds good! Thanks!
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I'll bring a quad too, to far not to have a plan B. But I'll have an open seat, or two. ;D ;D
and with a 3 seater you have choices!! LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO
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You are not alone my friend on the slow build. I will get mine done as I can. Hopefully it will run this summer as I am in assyemble mode finally.
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You are not alone my friend on the slow build. I will get mine done as I can. Hopefully it will run this summer as I am in assyemble mode finally.
Yours is looking good!
and with a 3 seater you have choices!! LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO
Should we start calling shotgun now? ;D
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I'm figuring ,to balance the car,you'll need to ride bitch,engineer. ;) ;D ;D
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LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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LMAO rofl
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:wwp:
This has always been one of my favorite builds, just want to see this damn thing already! ;D
Saw him posting around the net, thought he might be gettin ready to dust cobwebs off again.
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engineer seemed to have just dropped off the radar. ya,I'd like to see that buggy finished.
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ya .....have you gotten any farther on it?
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ya .....have you gotten any farther on it?
Now he's gone backwards a bit since someone stole his wheel adapters. LMAO LMAO
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woh hey now rofl rofl
he said he could make new ones real easy but hey i never used them if he wants them back!!
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????????????? you still alive?
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=1339 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=1339)
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No kidding.
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????????????? you still alive?
http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=1339 (http://www.dtsfab.com/index/MGalleryItem.php?id=1339)
Still alive. Just very busy. I got a bead roller to work on the panels but I need a brake to form some aluminum sheet for the wing trunk.
If it doesn't rain soon I may have lots of time to work on it. ;D
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well it's good to hear from ya again!!
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Still alive. Just very busy. I got a bead roller to work on the panels but I need a brake to form some aluminum sheet for the wing trunk.
If it doesn't rain soon I may have lots of time to work on it. ;D
Get her fired off and drag it down for the trip. 5 weeks is plenty of time. drowning
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Get her fired off and drag it down for the trip. 5 weeks is plenty of time. drowning
ya what he said :nw
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well did you get the new adaptor's made?
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hey engineer how is the rail coming? are you going to atleast come down and say hi?
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so can you make these dates for a spring trip enineer? http://www.dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=5001.0
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I think he fell off the earth..................................
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I think he fell off the earth..................................
moved to bfe Kansas. close enuff LMAO LMAO
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bdkw1 sure as hell thinks so....................I think he's suffering culture shock.