Axles

[Islander]

I am looking at building a buggy along the same lines as the one Baloo is showing in "lightweight rock crawler"  My question is, what axles would be good and junkyard cheap to use?  I'm in Canada if that changes anything.  I was thinking of using two front drive axles to have the offset pumpkins and then have 4 wheel steer, but then I would be running the rear axle on the wrong side of the gears.  I want light weight and durability of the solid axles. 

[Admin]

I am looking at building a buggy along the same lines as the one Baloo is showing in "lightweight rock crawler"  My question is, what axles would be good and junkyard cheap to use?  I'm in Canada if that changes anything.  I was thinking of using two front drive axles to have the offset pumpkins and then have 4 wheel steer, but then I would be running the rear axle on the wrong side of the gears.  I want light weight and durability of the solid axles.

you just need one that is possible to turn the ring gear to the opposite side...

[Islander]

Anything more specific?  I get that you can switch the gears on some axles, but any ideas on which ones?

[Engineer]

I don't know if you would want the track width of a half ton.  but many of the smaller vehicles have IFS.  Look for older toyota or suzuki? 

IF you flipped the rear one upside down would it now drive correctly?  The issue would be oiling the pinion bearing.  But it would keep the offset on the same side.

[magnum4598]

toyota 4x4 axles the older ones with out 4 wheel indep susp

[RC51 Rhino]

If you want rear steer you will have to cut/weld the new 'rear' axle to put the diff in the same position as the front. If you simply 'flip' the axle it will go the right way but be on the opposite side of the vehicle.


         O---o-O
               I
             eng
               I
         O---o-O

          O-o---O
              I
            eng
                 I
           O---o-O

 Kinda crude but maybe you get the picture? Must have the diffs in the same location, I believe that's why Baloo used the Sammi axles both front and rear are offset the same direction. Older Toyota FJ axles are offset the same way.

[Baloo]

HI  Islander

l dont know what motors you have over there that are commom  and hence cheap but here theres  only 2 real candidates
suzuki  sj  and toyota hilux mk 1,2.3,
 
of the sj range you get the 410 axles which are narrowest and maybe the weakest, then the 413 axles with a different ratio but the best could well be the sammy axles because they are the widest.
on marks he has used 410 axles reckoned to be the weakest of the lot, these were only used because he had them and hence they wre free in effect, strength hasent been an issue at all and despite some pretty heavy right foot,  preumably the very light wieght ( 600kg ) helps proctect the half shafts and cv's,
the 410 axles wernt the best choice being so narrow, the buggy has been over a few times on side slopes,


at the moment mark is modifing some sammy axles by cutting off the short side and adding 4" into the length of the tube and then re making the half  shaft 

l have been considering using hilux axles for mine since they are wider to start with and they are undoubtly stronger but they are heavier whist l dont think its too much extra wieght mark wont use them because of the extra wieght, l guess it depends on how much you consider wieght a disadvantage and how much torque you want to put through them,
if you want a front axle in the rear how about just cutting the axle tube off on the short side of both front axles and then welding on another pair of long sides ?  granted both diffs would be in the middle but l dont think would cause a problem with packaging, and the extra width it would create would be very useful in the stability deptartment when on side slopes

jumping back to hilux axles which l still consider a real option, you would have to use a toyota land crusier rear as on the hilux the diff is in the centre and wont line up with front where as the land crusier is offset to match the front

what engine and box are you thinking of useing ?  subaru has some very good points ?



these pics show mine mocked up using suzuki jimny axles, l wont be using these as every one is telling me they are weaker than sammy axles
probally be toyota for me

[Islander]

While I do have a Subaru motor and tranny, my wife would be real upset if I took her car apart for a buggy  .  What I do have is a free Chevy Cavalier with the 2.5L and auto.  I`m running it right now at the local circle track, but I`m pretty sure that the body won`t last the season (body is in great shape, but we race really rough!!)  When the car is done, that is what I would like to run for my buggy.

On the axles, rear steer is not essential, but would be nice.  I will be making my own trails in the woods with it, and narrow turning radius would be real nice.  Width is a slight concern then too, but as to the weight, a heavy axle to me is not all that bad sounding because the weight would be as low as possible and should add to the stability. 

[Baloo]

chevy cavalier is front wheel drive yes ?   are you mounting it by the side of the driver and and using one drive shaft to power the front axle and the other for the back ?
suzuki sammy axles sound the way to go then,  l take your point about heavy axles being low down wieght, but any wieght works against you when you are trying to climb up a  steep bank or forcing your wheel over a fallen tree trunk

making your own track in your wood,  how cool is that l would kill for my own wood    that would be my dream project to biuld a track through a wood   

[Boostinjdm]

If you want more narrow than standard and aren't as concerned about weight,  I would find two full size axle assemblies that can have the diff flipped then just shorten one side.  That would in effect move the diff over.

[Islander]

I have plenty of access to rear axles, and may be able to get a front out of a Jeep, (dana 35)  weak for a full size jeep or full size buggy I know, but by keeping the weight down and hp low, it should live a long time.  Right now it is living fine in a CJ 5 with a 350 small block, 7 inches of lift and 35 X 14.5 mud tires!  Hasn't blown yet!

As for the layout, I was thinking about doing it with the driver sitting beside the motor, I would prefer to have a two seat-er to take my daughter along, but I can't really figure out on how to have a 2 seat-er and still keep it relatively small.  If I was to run a 2 seat-er, then I think I would center the engine in front, move the rad to the rear with the fuel tank, battery etc. and try to keep the weight to about 60%-40% front to rear.  I would like to keep the weight either 50/50 or front biased, for the extreme climbing angles I want to attempt.

Any thoughts?

Man I need to get a Cad setup and lessons!!

[Nutz4sand]

A lot of older Jeeps (Like CJ's) had Quadratracks and the diffs were already offset front and rear. These axles are not to wide nor heavy but in a lightweight rig would do fine. no rear steering with the stock rear axle though. 

Heck might even use the CJ frame???

[Islander]

Well, when you start going up to CJ frame, then we get into the fun of....well I could upgrade the axles, then I can use a beefier trans, then I'm using the 350 and full size buggy stuff!!  I would like to keep as small as possible and the smaller 4 cyl. motor, or even the 3.8L V6 I've got out of another FWD car for the tight woods and for the bit of gas I would be saving.  Not much fun having a buggy and no gas to run it.

If the CJ axles are both offset, that would work great though.  If they are both the same tube diameter and axle shaft spline/ diameter, then I could add a set of front knuckles to the rear axle and have 4 wheel steer that way.

A question for Baloo.. when you set up the FWD trans to accept the driveshafts, how did you balance everything?  Did the buggy have any vibration problems at any amount of speed?  I don't plan on doing much driving at any speed, but I can get to my father's shale pit by using back roads, and I have another 100 acres of play area there.

[Nutz4sand]

The CJ 5 my friend had with quadra track had the offset axles front and rear and with all the factory drivetrain gone (straight 6 with automatic and quadratrak T case there was not much. The axles were pretty dane tiny. Two people could walk off with the frame when the axles were disconnected

Dunno if the stock frame would be to your likeing or not? I like a tube frame with four link much better so I would prefer that going this route. Just tossing something out there. I think the CJ5 axles were a little narrorer than the CJ7's.