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Author Topic: Dealing on some equipment  (Read 12714 times)

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Offline Boostinjdm

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Dealing on some equipment
« on: February 15, 2011, 06:41:51 PM »
So there is a guy near me with a mill and lathe for sale....

Jet Jtm-1 w/DRO and powered table. (9x42 step pulley Mill)
Jet GH-1340w-3 (it's a geared head engine lathe)

Both  come with tool cabinets with collets, boring bars, extra chucks, cutters, carbide inserts, reamers, etc.  Not lot's of tooling, but enough to cover me for awhile.
So the guy bought up all the equipment when the place he worked for relocated.  This is the stuff he has left.  He had to pay for this stuff up front and has been sitting on it for 6 months. This stuff is all 3 phase and I realize I'm going to spend about $800 on a converter to run it.

Anyways, one of my customers offered to pre-pay me for work (loan) me the money if I wanted this equipment.  He already owes me some money and will owe more before the week's over.  Without this, I do not have enough to buy the equipment.  He knows this equipment will eventually save him money because I can do more of the work myself and do it faster.

I went and eyeballed the equipment today and personally wrote down model/stock/serial #'s so I could properly put a value on it.  It appears that everything he has is worth roughly $20k new.  Everything was purchased in 2003 and taken out of service in 2009 for the mill and 2010 for the lathe.  Both pieces of equipment were dirty (oily with chips still on them).  I wiped them off in spots to inspect.  They did not appear to have excess slack or much wear from use.  Machining was not the main part of this business.  It was for making fixtures to produce their product.
The guy was asking $8500 for everything when I got there.  By the time we were done, he was down to $7500 for everything.  With racing season coming and this guy needing his garage back, I asked him what it would be worth if I could give him cash and have the stuff gone this weekend.  He said "throw out a number".  I refrained.  I am not going the throw out a final number till I have cash in my hand to complete the deal.  It did lead me to believe he would come down more if cash was waved in front of him. I am going to talk to the money guy tomorrow morning to settle on terms of the loan.

Any thoughts?  Is he too high on price or does it sound like a fair deal?  If it makes a difference, I have enough cash to cover half the loan right now and a few things I could sell quickly to cover the rest if need be.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 06:44:37 PM by Boostinjdm »
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Online fabr

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 06:50:07 PM »
I wish I could offer an opinion to help out.
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loyalty to the American people."
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Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 06:57:53 PM »
Quote from: masterfabr on February 15, 2011, 06:50:07 PM
I wish I could offer an opinion to help out.

What?  IF anything, you've always got an opinion....
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Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 07:02:45 PM »
I know nothing about these two machines...But to me the price sounds high for a step pulley mill.

Its better to have it covered in oil than rust.

You wont need $800 to get 3 phase,3HP variable frequency drives are in the 180$ range.

http://dealerselectric.com/variable_frequency_drives.asp
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 07:07:42 PM by Hammerworks »
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Online fabr

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 07:21:48 PM »
you'll be disappointed.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Online fabr

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 07:27:38 PM »
i meant with those static converters. still no opinion on the machines.
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 07:52:25 PM »
I have not even considered the static converters.  The literature on the mill says specifically that the warranty (which has expired anyway) would be void if a static converter was used.  I was looking at USA made rotary converters with lifetime warranties or maybe a VFD.  The thing is....the rotary will run everything and then some.
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Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2011, 07:55:07 PM »
Quote from: Hammerworks on February 15, 2011, 07:02:45 PM
I know nothing about these two machines...But to me the price sounds high for a step pulley mill.

New price on the mill with DRO and maybe powered feed looks to be in the $8k+ range.  That is for Jet stuff.  Other brands are cheaper, but these aren't other brands.  I'm trying to compare apples to apples here.
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Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 08:10:59 PM »
Sounds like a good deal then.

Also modern VFDs are NOT the same as the old static drives everyone is used to.Go to one of the big machinist sites and search,they work just fine.

BTW,I have the old phase-o-matic static on my proto-trak and have never had a problem,plenty of hp to cut what I need to cut.
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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 08:50:22 PM »
The phase-a -matic I had were junk. The VFD's are not bad but a full digital is best.     http://www.phaseperfect.com/
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"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

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 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"

Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2011, 09:43:58 PM »
Static converters are not VFD's.  I've spent several hours reading and will say that a properly sized VFD is prolly the best option, but as I understand it, needs to be tied to one piece of equipment.  A rotary will handle several pieces of equipment either individually or at the same time.  That is what is pointing me in that direction.  And what makes a rotary best for me.  One big rotary is cheaper than two or more properly setup VFDs.  I'm thinking that in the future I may stumple upon other 3 phase equipment I want to run like a bandsaw or grinder or even to test a farmers conveyor I have to repair.  I believe a rotary converter will best suit my situation.
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Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2011, 09:48:03 PM »
I've got to discuss terms with the money man tomorrow morning, but I'm thinking of waving $6K in front of the guy and telling him I'll have the equipment out of there before the weekend.  We'll see what happens, but my sources tell me he didn't give much for the whole shop full of equipment and he has a new racecar he needs the space and money to assemble. ;D
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Offline Boostinjdm

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2011, 12:32:18 AM »
Quote from: Hammerworks on February 15, 2011, 07:02:45 PM
You wont need $800 to get 3 phase,3HP variable frequency drives are in the 180$ range.

http://dealerselectric.com/variable_frequency_drives.asp

Maybe I wasn't understanding what I was reading, but I seem to remember something about needing to be closed loop for lathes.  Or sensorless? And needing to be over sized for hard start applications (I believe a lathe is medium to hard).  Maybe somebody with actual VFD experience could chime in.  I could call a sales rep, but I don't see the point without actually having a need for it.  If/when I have the equipment I may pick up the phone.
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Offline Hammerworks

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2011, 05:42:53 AM »
Yup,VFDs one tool at a time.Sounds like you already have all the answers you need?Buy a rotary,and the machines.
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Online fabr

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Re: Dealing on some equipment
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2011, 06:41:58 AM »
Quote from: Boostinjdm on February 15, 2011, 09:43:58 PM
Static converters are not VFD's.  I've spent several hours reading and will say that a properly sized VFD is prolly the best option, but as I understand it, needs to be tied to one piece of equipment.  A rotary will handle several pieces of equipment either individually or at the same time.  That is what is pointing me in that direction.  And what makes a rotary best for me.  One big rotary is cheaper than two or more properly setup VFDs.  I'm thinking that in the future I may stumple upon other 3 phase equipment I want to run like a bandsaw or grinder or even to test a farmers conveyor I have to repair.  I believe a rotary converter will best suit my situation.
Just be sure that you understand that a 5 hp rotary will not run a 5 hp motor. You need to oversize it.
 The BEST alternative is a PhasePerfect unit. Second best and most often done is a rotary. Don't confuse a PhasePerfect with a static POS tho.
Logged
"There can be no divided allegiance here.  Any man who says he is an American,
but something else also, isn't an American at all.  We have room for but one
flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is
the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

-----------------------------------------------------------
 " You have all the right in the world to believe any damn thing you'd like, but you don't have the right to demand that I agree with your fantasy"
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