DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
The Machine Shop => Tools/Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: Wyattboche on June 17, 2011, 12:33:05 PM
-
Looking at getting this bender. https://www.jd2.com/p-32-model-3-bender.aspx
I want to convert it to hydraulic powered, but don't want to buy there kit. Would it be hard to do this by oneself? or would it be cheaper to buy there's?
-
I converted mine with this kit. much cheaper than buying a full hydraulic bender and works great.
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164 (http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164)
-
I converted mine with this kit. much cheaper than buying a full hydraulic bender and works great.
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164 (http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164)
Thanks. But was looking for one that ran off a 110 volt instead of air. How big can you bend before that ram wont push anymore?
-
I have done 1-1/2" .120 wall chromoly
-
I converted mine with this kit. much cheaper than buying a full hydraulic bender and works great.
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164 (http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164)
I'm taking your word on that. I just now bought one for my PT105. ;)
-
I did need to step up my compressor a little cause I hated waiting on the compressor (small 5gal makita). I got a used craftsman 33 gal for $125. The ram goes on sale for $65 or so every couple months. And when you release the ram pressure you can find out the exact spring back that is hard to know with the full hydraulic.
I am very confident that I could bend bigger tube. This has more power than you do cranking on it manuallt. Great upgradr if you already have a bender
-
Never used to mind pulling that lever but I guess I'm getting lazy. Didn't want to start next project doing the old tug of war. LOL!!!!
-
I built a stand out of some left over square tube and you can roll it where you want. If you have limited work space it's a pain to unbolt the bender and cary it around. I will NEVER pull the handle on my bender again.
-
Lol!!!! I assume I'll never pull the lever again either. The ability to move the thing around will be a HUGE plus also.
-
To help me with springback on my full hydraulic I plan to make the part that enguages the pin on the moving arm a little slot. Then it can free up enough from the cylinder.
-
Help,lost me.
-
I am in a hurry now as I just got out of work and headed to another place to look at new wheels as my vehicle is dying. Will clarify it tonight once home.
-
Are you asking about what the spring back is or his idea
-
his idea
-
Sounds like he wants to make a slot in the ram atachment so he can back the ram pressure off and the tube can settle to give an acurate reading.
-
still lost
-
Kinda like a cordless caulk gun, when you stop it backs up a bit to keep it from dripping.
-
Ya I know but what can a slot do? I'm sure that I'll say" OH ,NOW I see" if you can describe what a slot can do that releasing the ram pressure won't. I'm sure I'm missing something but WTH is it? Explain this to me."I plan to make the part that enguages the pin on the moving arm a little slot. "
-
If the ram is hard attached to the arm, then when you pull the ram back, the arm pulls back. With a slot, you can pull the ram back the length of the slot and the arm will settle somewhere in the middle.
-
AHA!!!!! NOW I see.
-
Gonna be a long slot for that tho now that I think about it. At least for 4130 there is a LOT of springback.
-
The slot does not need to be long enough to accommodate all the spring back, just long enough for the ram to stop after you let off the button, valve, etc. You hit retract, as soon as the ram pulls away from the one side of the slot, you let off.
-
Springback on 1.25x.090 4130 is about 1.5 inches arm travel per pull on a PT105. I'd need about a 1.5 inch long slot in the ram to do it. I have an idea of how to do it without losing ram travel tho. Need to get the ram and mount here .
-
If you had a 1" slot and you move the ram back 2", the pin would be in the middle of the slot. All that matters is that the pin is not touching either end of the slot. If it is, then the angle reading is not accurate.
-
???
-
For those going with the HF ram this looks pretty cool and simple.
http://www.swagoffroad.com/Tubing_Bender_Air_Hydraulic_Mount.html (http://www.swagoffroad.com/Tubing_Bender_Air_Hydraulic_Mount.html)
-
I'd seen that before but have concerns about clamping to the thin outer tube of the jack.
-
I'd seen that before but have concerns about clamping to the thin outer tube of the jack.
I would agree with that, especially the way that clamp works. It is basically a giant muffler clamp pressing in a narrow area.
-
Sounds like he wants to make a slot in the ram atachment so he can back the ram pressure off and the tube can settle to give an acurate reading.
Ding ding ding! We have a winnah! Sorry was not able to get to a simple sktch. Been running ragged these last few weeks.
-
We had that all figured out a while back.Just discussing how much slot is needed.
-
I would agree with that, especially the way that clamp works. It is basically a giant muffler clamp pressing in a narrow area.
I've thought about a conversion for mine. I've seen a few different designs, but really haven't seen anything I thought would work well. One idea I had was to replace the end cap of a tie rod type cylinder with a fabricated one that had a trunnion mount. I've even thought about welding a mount on a factory cap and then cleaning up the O ring and seal fits to try it.
-
Theres plenty of guys on OFN using the single clamp-on-tube style,I havnt seen anyone mention the tube failing.
-
We had that all figured out a while back.Just discussing how much slot is needed.
It's going to need a light spring too. If the angle reading is taken off the die. Then to get an accurate reading the die needs to stay in contact with the tube when the pressure is released. Insert light spring here....
-
I had a conversion that used a trailer jack and an electric drill motor. That was before I got my Ercolina.
-
How does the ercolina allow you to see/compensate springback? You just back it off don't you,measure angle and try again?
-
It has a separate dial for spring back. All it really is doing is adding that to the total bend so the angle entered matches your print. What is nice though is that as soon as I let off the bend pedal, the die free wheels so the spring back will cause it to back up. It would be nice if the readout displayed how much it backs up, but it does not. There is a small amount of resistance in retracting the die, so it stays tight to the tube until I press retract. With the pedal pushed or not, I can crank up the angle. So when it backs up, I can see it did not bend far enough, dial the bend up and press bend again. If I press retract, I have to retract all the way before bending again. I have not spent much time at all trying to figure out how to get a one off bend in one or two tries. Most everything I do, I am doing 20 or so tubes. What the Ercolina does real nice is give me 20 identical tubes once I have dialed in the first good one. The bummer is that it takes 2 or 3 tubes before that. If I need a 90, I guess at the spring back I need. I error low and get 86. So I add 4 degrees. Then I get 88. If I keep twekaing it up until I get 90 then throw in a fresh tube, it will be over bent. Chances are if I start with a fresh tube with the first adjustment, I would have got 90, but sometimes not. There is a third dial that sets the percentage of the bend bent at high speed. Slowing down at the end of the bend will reduce or get rid of a hump. It is 2hp so high speed is moving pretty good.
It is $4000 for the attachment to repeat multiple bends in multiple planes.
-
That's what I thought.
-
I converted mine with this kit. much cheaper than buying a full hydraulic bender and works great.
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164 (http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164)
WHile I have little doubt the thing will work the "quality " is a bit lacking to be polite. Here's what I got.11
-
Looks like torch cut, or atleast mine. So this converts it to hydrolic?
-
What crap. I especially like where they made the attempt eyes to deburr it and still did a shitty job. Hope it wasn't too expensive.
-
No, it was cheap but even then one would thoink there would be more pride in a mans work than that. I think it was done by hand around a template. It will work but it needs a good detailing before it goes on my bender.
-
They are cheap for shure. If they hires a water jet to do their brackets it would save you some clean up time. Sorry forgot about that part Master :( . Did you get your bender with the ram together?
-
They are cheap for shure. If they hires a water jet to do their brackets it would save you some clean up time. Sorry forgot about that part Master :( . Did you get your bender with the ram together?
I haven't mounted it . Not because of the poor quality but no time. Been working like a dog for a long time now. Oh well,it's how I can afford this stuff. I do need to get it mounted soon tho as I have some handrail to bend for a community center. If I can find the time I think I'll draw/copy the setup up in CAD and have it done WJ and of thicker plate. I can't really bitch about the setup for the price,I'm pretty sure it does the job , but I think I want to copy my own a bit better. Wouldn't like seeing that stuff each time I bent something. Make me want to run the other way. ;D ;D
-
Oh,BTW,thanks for the link to it. REALLY. I like the concept better than others .
-
I spent about an hour with the flapper wheel and drill press making it all look decent. I have had no deflection issues, so I dont see a need to go thicker. I have bent 1-1/2" .120 chromoly and it worked fine. If you have yours re-cut trim some of the back arch off. Some of my pieces would hit it while bending. I just smoothed out the radius as needed for the pieces. Still a GREAT concept though. Just needs a beter fabricator making the kits.
-
What crap. I especially like where they made the attempt eyes to deburr it and still did a shitty job. Hope it wasn't too expensive.
Doesn't look anything like the website's picture.
http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164 (http://copperheadfab.com/index.php?action=productview&productid=164)
-
Yes,VERY misleading to say the least.
-
Wow that price is right. Maybe the ruff look is what they are refering to as "fitting required". I think they chased a jig with a torch.
-
Wow that price is right. Maybe the ruff look is what they are refering to as "fitting required". I think they chased a jig with a torch.
Yes,it does and MUST have been done by hand by a monkey.. THe douchebag didn't even try to keep the torch perpendicular to the work.
-
Well,I finally had need of getting the ram mounted on the bender. Decided to just go with it as the kit was cheao and the ram was pretty cheap also so what did I have to lose? With about 30 minute of quality time at the disc grinder and the pieces are acceptable. Not good but good enough for a HF ram. rofl Anyway,the thing will need a couple of bushings made to fix a BS problem ,pics later will explain, but it works just fine. PLENTY slow enough to get the angles dead on. Too slow actually but better by far than too fast. So far it is easier than manually bending to hit the target angle. That was a big concern of mine. Sooooo,for the price I guess I can't bitch and if it goes to shit ,the concept is very sound and easily remade much better at the waterjetters with thicker plate even though that is not really needed for strength but the thing would be much more professional looking. All in all I'd recommend it for a cheap conversion kit.