DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
The Machine Shop => Tools/Tips and Tricks => Topic started by: Boostinjdm on April 28, 2009, 07:11:15 PM
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For you machinests out there, I have a question. A friend of mine has an old lathe for sale and I am trying to dig up some info on it, but have come up empty. It has a tag on the headstock casting that says "Mclean Machine Tool Company" or something very close to that. I forgot to write it down. Anyways, from what I can tell it is something like a 12x30 or 12x40 lathe with quick change box and is driven by about a 2" flat belt. He traded a car for it even up and figures the car was worth $1000. So that is what I believe he wants out of the lathe. It is old, but appears to be in good shape with no noticeable damage or wear. He mentioned to me that he doesn't think he needs it and could really use the money. I am trying to figure out if he how he came out on the trade, and if it would be worth $1000 for me to purchase. Before we got to talking numbers I figured for $500 I would own it, but he is wanting double that so I don't know now. This weekend we are planning to pick it up and get it set up in his garage. He said I could use it any time I want at his place, but it just isn't the same as having my own.
So does anybody know anything about this lathe? Or where I could find some info?
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Cant say the name rings bells but here is my 2 cents. If you want to buy it you need to consider how robust of a unit it is. The heavier the better! Older machines are usually built well and last a long time. I have a Monarch in my garage that weighs 6000#. Was built in the early 50s and it is the best manual treading lathe I have ever ran. Also cuts very straight. I spent alot of time leveling and alinging it over a day and a case of beer. Suprised it went as good now that I think back on it. Anyway another thing to consider is power supply / HP, tooling, chucks, spindle bore and so on. Most important is the condition of the ways and any wear! I say dont buy it untill you see it cut if your going to hook it up anyway.
See if you can post up pictures and Ill be happy to comment further. $1000 for a good running lathe that has enough to get you started isnt a bad price. As long as youll get your money or pleasure out of it.
Another note is that not just anyone that thinks they can run a lathe (or any machine for that matter) means that they actually can. At least have the ambition to want to learn or youll be disapointed. I have a neighbor that bought my little hobby lathe and he has had it for about 3 years now. He has turned it on a very small amount of times and ends up visiting me everytime to finish the job. He is selling that for $500 but its very small (9X24). only about 500# total weight.
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It looks to be very stout for it's capacity. The hang up for me is that I want a 14"-16" or bigger swing, but am poor at the moment. To be honest, the $1000 he is wanting would break me, but all bills are paid and I have 30 days till the next round of bills show up. In the mean time my dump trailer and press projects have almost come to a complete stop due to lack of lathe access. I have even considered a used 9x20 import to get me by :o ::). I know it's wrong, but I have been a year now without access to real machines, and it's killing me. I really hate to buy something that I am going to replace right away, so I am still riding the fence. Hopefully saturday morning we will have heavy enough equipment available to move the lathe to my friends garage and set it up. If we get it running and I can machine my parts, then I can put off buying something for a little longer. I've even considered selling my beloved bike and/or lawnmower to buy a decent lathe. That would mean pushing the yard and staying home on nice sunny days. I'd prolly lose my ass on both though.
I do have quite a bit of time running machining equipment under my belt, so that doesn't bother me. As an example, I machined the hubs on both of these and built the aluminum car mostly by myself in highschool. That was a few years ago when I was first learning, I am a little more proficient now.
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I spent alot of time leveling and alinging it over a day and a case of beer. Suprised it went as good now that I think back on it.
Doug, shouldnt have been a problem.... drinking Septic beer is like having sex in a row boat...
Fooking close to water........ gg:
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who said it was traditional light American beer???
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Likely Fosters.
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You likely could find a gear head engine lathe, And get away with the old flat belt lathes all together, They still produced high quality machines after the flat belts went out of style, IMO 1000 is to much for that machine, we bought 2 old hendys 16" swing and a 20" swing for 300.00 each.. There is plenty of machines out there, you are gonna find a newer machine will require far less maintenance...The bearings in them real old machine wont take the rpms either, If you want to tear up some alum, you need to spin it fast...
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I saw an old logan go for 200bux on purple Wave a couple of months ago. Install that machine at the buddies place and just go use it till you find a real buy.
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Im with Master. I paid $750 for mine if I remember
right. Ill never sell it and it will last untill my boys have kids of their own. May be obsolete by then but it will still work and be functional.
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I'm all for finding deals, and I have been looking, but those deals aren't so sweet after shipping a 2000lb piece of equipment half way accross the country. And that's IF the seller is willing to ship. Then I have to figure a way to unload and set up. Around here I have only found a couple deals and they were rulled out because I didn't have big enough equipment to unload at my place or in a few cases, the power to run the shit.
I have been looking at some nice new stuff, but will have to get the house sold first to be able to afford it. For now I will be counting down to Saturday, when hopefully I will get to run my buddies lathe and go from there.
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Those are all good points!
Good luck with it!
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Spent pretty much all day yesterday and today assembling and fixing up the lathe at my buddies. The castings say Vernon Machine company. Today I learned how to splice a leather belt with contact cement and a rubber hammer. Got the taper attachment all assembled and functioning. Got the correct size pulley installed on the new variable speed motor. Tried to get the power feed for the cross slide working. It still slips. Tomarrow I hope to get that squared away.
Only thing left before I can start making chips is to re-mount the three jaw cuz some dumb ass put it on so crooked you can tell it's wobblin from the street. Any suggestions on this? It's a plain back with four bolts holding it to the backing plate. I figured I would start by facing the backing plate and checking the OD to see if it is true. If that is off then I will either have to build it up and re cut it or machine the back of the chuck a hair deeper and re cut the OD of the backing plate. I have not totally ruled out building up the recess in the chuck around the edges and re cutting that. Last resort is new parts. He has already agreed to buy a new chuck and backing plate, but I kinda like a challenge and fixing what he has will keep the price down in case I decide to buy it later on. Then I can buy the new chuck when I am ready for it. ;D Will get pics next time I go to work on it. I keep getting excited and forgetting my camera.
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I can't remember if I said it already, but this thing was totally stripped down so the previous owner could move it to his house. So I had a hell of a jigsaw puzzle to start with and no box to look at. ;D It even had a few pieces that didn't belong thrown in with it. That made things interesting.
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How the hell can the backing plate be off and the chuck need faced? Something else must be wrong.
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How the hell can the backing plate be off and the chuck need faced? Something else must be wrong.
Backing plate could be bent.
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I understand that but it takes a lot to bend one.I'm betting there's something else going on.I'd check it out very carefully before I started machining anything.
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I understand that but it takes a lot to bend one.I'm betting there's something else going on.I'd check it out very carefully before I started machining anything.
Not necessarily. I know some that could bend or break a tank.
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Still needs checked out before cutting anything.
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The chuck has a definate up and down movement like OD the backing plate was machined down to far and the chuck mounted off center. I have yet to put an indicator on it, but you can see swirl marks on the OD of the backing plate like somebody used a flap wheel on it. The snout looks straight by eye, but like I said, I haven't put an indicator on it yet. I'll let you know what I find.
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http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php)
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I have pics, but can't get them to post? says Maximum attachment size allowed 0KB?
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It's not a file size problem. O really means no limit. BUT if you resize them to less than 1000X1000 I have found it works better for me.THere have been times when I tried to post large pics and got the same message and resized pics flew right through.AS you can see tho I KNOW NOTHING about this stuff.
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Here is the lathe.
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We needed a new 3 jaw chuck. Chuck showed up and then we needed a backing plate and I couldn't find one for the thread size so I made an adapter plate for our old backing plate. I think the old chuck is going to end up on a weld positioner I am working on.... here is the process. Came out right on the money by the way. ;)
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Nicely done.
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Very nice work....
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Riddle for the day.
What do you call an MT2 taper that isn't an MT2? We originally ordered MT3 stuff cuz I thought the tail stock looked bigger than MT2. Stuff showed up and wouldn't even fit in the hole, let alone seat. So we measured the hole and it was .70 at the big end. According to what I found on the internet, that matches up with MT2. So we ordered MT2 Stuff and it showed up yesterday. I haven't seen it yet, but from what my buddy said on the phone the MT2 stuff is sloppy and won't seat. Now where do I go from here?
I'm thinking about taking the tailstock apart and maybe getting it reamed to MT3 so we can use common stuff.
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Thats what I would suggest if you have the material. It could just be a wore out MT2. Maybe you can ream it MT2 a little deeper to clean up. Any chips or dings in the tailstock will cause problems but you probably allready know that.
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I have a 3 or maybe it's a 2 reamer.I'll look and see if you are interested.Those things are pricey.
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yes they are pricey. I have looked. I think there is a guy locally that refurbishes equipment. I know he does shears anyways. I'm thinking tuesday would be a good time to drop in and see if he has reamers to do the job. I'd bet I could pay to get it done and be cheaper than buying the reamer and doing it myself.
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is it possible that it is a jt????? and not mt??? or is jt just for drill presses and the like?
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Jacobs are mainly for drill chucks. I have seen other odd tapers but Im not familiar with what they are called. Either way I would convert it to Morse anyway as an update
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is it possible that it is a jt????? and not mt??? or is jt just for drill presses and the like?
Did you forget to think before speaking again Voodoo?
Either way I would convert it to Morse anyway as an update
yep, if it's not morse now....it will be when I'm done.
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i dont find those comments to appealing... ill start doing it back... i threw out a fxxking possibility to try to help ya out... dont worry, ill ignore your threads from now on jerk
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The point is. Jt and Mt are totally different. Like a blind man could spot it from ten feet away. Don't just throw out possibilities without knowing what you are talking about.
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It's not real likely that it's a JT. Anything is possible tho.
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yes they are pricey. I have looked. I think there is a guy locally that refurbishes equipment. I know he does shears anyways. I'm thinking tuesday would be a good time to drop in and see if he has reamers to do the job. I'd bet I could pay to get it done and be cheaper than buying the reamer and doing it myself.
likely so.
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whatever... your just a jerk.. get over yourself..
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The point is. Jt and Mt are totally different. Like a blind man could spot it from ten feet away. Don't just throw out possibilities without knowing what you are talking about.
You're the idiot that went and bought the wrong part after working with and looking at the machine with the advantage of having the machine right there - don't come down on somebody throwing out an idea that he feels may help.
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ENough bickering guys. Back to the topic,please.
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The point is. Jt and Mt are totally different. Like a blind man could spot it from ten feet away. Don't just throw out possibilities without knowing what you are talking about.
So I guess I shouldn't ask what the difference is?
I'm not a machinest...So I'd like some pix and some explanations...Please...
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Google don't work?
Here ya go.
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Was it pretty hard for ya to put up?
Like I said I'm no machinest...
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so whats the difference? that picture doesnt explain the differences?!?!?! google is broke.. so explain it.. you know all about it
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so whats the difference? that picture doesnt explain the differences?!?!?!
Without getting into the exact measurements, the picture does a damn good job of showing the difference. :slp
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if they are close enough to have to use exacting measurements to show the difference, then the picture does nothing!!!! what are the differences according to you?
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What happened to this?
dont worry, ill ignore your threads from now on jerk
I'll throw ya a bone anyway. A common setup would be something like an mt3 to a Jt3. The MT is about 3X longer than the JT. Just like in the picture.
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Since I'm showing my ignorance
The Morse looks familliar from my drill press, But where are the rest commonly found?
Inquireing minds want to know
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Morse and Jacobs are prolly the ones most people will see. Jacobs is as far as I know is only found in drill chucks. Morse is also most common for drilling. Chuck adapters (like the pic) and drillbits, so you you don't need a chuck. Most tapers that I have found info on were developed by the machine company that needed them. There is not one "standard" that everyone goes by.
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Now were getting somewhere...
I know that most drills use a Jacobs chuck...
But for most of us that is as far as we know
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Google my friends, I use it every day... :)
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Google don't work?
Here ya go.
(https://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1507.0;attach=13791;image)
Actually, that top picture is not Bridgeport, It is R8 to Jt... ;D
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Additionally the bridgeport IMO is and should not be used as the term for that shank. It is technically an R8.
The first Bridgeport I owned actually used quick locks.
Ill take some pics at work on Moday of all the diferent tooling shanks and holders we use. Pictures always are a great refrence! thats why I like to post up so much of them.
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;D