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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: jersdunz on December 29, 2015, 12:16:47 AM

Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 29, 2015, 12:16:47 AM
I have an assembly mocked up of the cv drive with the new outer hubs.
Do any of you that have experience with the assembly of the Cv's see issue with this?
looking for feedback.. thanks

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2FDRIVE%2520AXLE%2520ASSY%2520SECTION_zps4zfw9ujj.png&hash=fe3f9b61ab21b546940b7c27a1dced97da329877) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/DRIVE%20AXLE%20ASSY%20SECTION_zps4zfw9ujj.png.html)


I have done some ratio calculations I am scratching my head a bit on my findings because it seems like a large ratio change.
Brian at DTS also has been sharing his experience with me as well.

Starting point with the 26" tires at 5.0:1
Tire change from 26 to 32 i came up with 23% increase in circumference.
5x1.231 = 6.155:1 then I was using Second and think i'll shoot for third gear the ratio difference of the two is 27%
6.155x1.27=7.817:1 seems Really deep.
That setup would be
Engine output 18, rpm input 26 = 1.444:1 * 5.4 @ rpm for a final drive of 7.8:1

Thoughts?
Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on December 29, 2015, 05:38:00 AM
So you are underdriving the 5.4 rpm box with the 26" to get the 5:1?
27% change seems a lot between 2nd & 3rd.  Whats the motor again?

I read where Dan (rpm) wasnt crazy about deep gear reducing into his boxes.

I'm running 5.38:1 with 31/32" tires. 1150lbs  Wish I woulda dropped a tooth for St A (had in tool box) so I'd say 5.5:1
Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 29, 2015, 07:36:48 AM
2002 cbr1100xx the ratio information I retrieved from gear commander
when I installed the rpm I geared it up 1 tooth from 18 to 17 for 5.1:1 and it sucked.

I was stuck at the top of second and the bottom of third. slowed me down a lot.
here is the gear range of the bike as per gearing commander
Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on December 29, 2015, 08:38:21 AM
Mathematically your figures are correct.  But that's some awful deep gearing.  But you gotta be happy.
Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 29, 2015, 10:41:53 AM
What really looks good to me is that 18% change from 3rd to 4th versus the 27% from second to third.. I very rarely use more than 2 gears.

at least in the past its been 2nd 80% of the time 3rd 10% and 1st 10% i've only seen 4th hand full of times in the huge bowls and that was rippin!!
Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on December 29, 2015, 11:06:46 AM
Start with the larger rear sprocket for the extra deep gearing.  Always drop the rear sprocket and shave the chain til ya happy camper. 
Title: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 29, 2015, 11:55:02 AM
Start with the larger rear sprocket for the extra deep gearing.  Always drop the rear sprocket and shave the chain til ya happy camper. 
Shouldn't have to mess with the chain much I have lots of adjustment .. ( crosses fingers )
Title: Re: Honda NR V-4 Engine
Post by: dsrace on December 29, 2015, 09:20:43 PM
ah just label it gearing trials and tribulation

here is a video of how it runs with the current gearing and blaster tires

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5LgJmt-wKo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5LgJmt-wKo)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 30, 2015, 09:59:22 PM
Mathematically your figures are correct.  But that's some awful deep gearing.  But you gotta be happy.

I found another gear calculator...
I can see exactly that the speed i used to have in second i'll have in third my shift closes from 2200 rpm change to 1500 rpm change Very nicely done. Don't have a gear box just put a 1 in the rpm ratio slot.
Who ever made this did an awesome job
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on December 31, 2015, 05:14:29 AM
I read somewhere on the internet (so it has to be true) to aim for 20:1 total gearing in 1st.  That was with a 31" tire.  That gear chart is slick!!  But that gearing you have puts you at 77mph, if you can pull max rpm in 6th gear.  Put your current setup in the chart(I'm sure you did) and see numbers.  BTW you will have to clearance the cv boot cups on the inboard cv's for the balls to slide thru.  The outter cv/stub, f150?  I'd get the hub bearing units from Ricks he's got the units made with the bolt pattern to run the easy-cheap chevy to wide 5 adapters.

Heres my gearing
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on December 31, 2015, 01:47:04 PM
ok so this is in response to the pic above.

since there are no dimensions on the picture i have to ask...... are all the pivot points equal? as in does each point of pivot ( heim and cv) pivot on a equal plane to eliminate bind or telescoping? the easiest way to do this is to center the pivot point of the heims through the center of the pivot point of the cv but as i see in the picture they are not so if they do not pivot at the same time then the cv will have to plunge or atleast 1 cv on each side depending on how far off of center you are or you will get bind. always easiest and best to pivot through the centers 3d or up and down side to side  and in and out. but when space doesn't allow this i would think that if they were offset equally it still pivot right just add a load to the joints differently.

as to the gearing charts.....well that just hurts my head lol  they don't factor weight, drag or accel rate lol as in doubling the weight of the wheel and a 32" paddle with 1" tall paddles is more like 30" when calculating circumference for ground speed since the bald spot is actually floating imo that is.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 31, 2015, 02:30:25 PM
ok so this is in response to the pic above.

since there are no dimensions on the picture i have to ask...... are all the pivot points equal? as in does each point of pivot ( heim and cv) pivot on a equal plane to eliminate bind or telescoping? the easiest way to do this is to center the pivot point of the heims through the center of the pivot point of the cv but as i see in the picture they are not so if they do not pivot at the same time then the cv will have to plunge or atleast 1 cv on each side depending on how far off of center you are or you will get bind. always easiest and best to pivot through the centers 3d or up and down side to side  and in and out. but when space doesn't allow this i would think that if they were offset equally it still pivot right just add a load to the joints differently.

The original setup was the way you describe it 3 pivots on the vertical plain....
the flanged u-joint yokes are thicker/taller than the cv's are, thus the inward offset 1.7ish so to deal with that I drew up new outers to match that offset. The only difference from inside to outside is the height of the pivot bolts I make the outer bolts 1/2" taller to help combat it folding in on it's self at droop.. it's either that or cut the whole back end out and start clean. ( which i'd like to do. BUT $$ )

if it installs, exactly like its drawn i'll have 0.055" of plunge. Of course that's like spotting a unicorn ... "Without some shrooms"

as to the gearing charts.....well that just hurts my head lol  they don't factor weight, drag or accel rate lol as in doubling the weight of the wheel and a 32" paddle with 1" tall paddles is more like 30" when calculating circumference for ground speed since the bald spot is actually floating imo that is.

I get what your saying its all just a guessing game right!!  .. it helps a lot on getting a close starting point though
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on December 31, 2015, 02:35:37 PM
I did forget to mention that .. The bitch about having the verticals pivots off plane like i'm doing is the axle as it rotates down. gets closer to the arm causing a big clearance issue on the cv cup at the bottom of the cycle.. it hits the arm.. i'll only get 36 maybe 38 out of it..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on December 31, 2015, 02:41:11 PM
since you have this modeled then rotate your inner a arm tab around the tube from 3 o clock to 7 or 7:30 positions and where does it line up in relation to the cv? at the wheel is easy to change
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on December 31, 2015, 02:57:20 PM
what tooth count do you have on the counter shaft sprocket and input sprocket now? what is the gear reduction inside the rpm box?  i know you said on the phone you could run st a 90
% of the time in 2nd gear or more fo the time but what was the effective rpm range you stayed in to stay in 2nd gear? what is your motor rated at for max tq and hp and what rpms?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on December 31, 2015, 05:45:25 PM
The original setup was the way you describe it 3 pivots on the vertical plain....
the flanged u-joint yokes are thicker/taller than the cv's are, thus the inward offset 1.7ish so to deal with that I drew up new outers to match that offset. The only difference from inside to outside is the height of the pivot bolts I make the outer bolts 1/2" taller to help combat it folding in on it's self at droop.. it's either that or cut the whole back end out and start clean. ( which i'd like to do. BUT $$ )

if it installs, exactly like its drawn i'll have 0.055" of plunge. Of course that's like spotting a unicorn ... "Without some shrooms"
 
I get what your saying its all just a guessing game right!!  .. it helps a lot on getting a close starting point though
You'll be fine since the splines will slip some and allow for any additional plunge due to any chassis flex.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Yummi on December 31, 2015, 07:07:04 PM
Lost a few posts here guys.  Should be good now.  Carry on. 
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Yummi on December 31, 2015, 07:07:28 PM
Jersdunz had on, don't know who else.


02:35  12/31/15 JersDunz:
I did forget to mention that .. The bitch about having the verticals pivots off plane like i'm doing is the axle as it rotates down. gets closer to the arm causing a big clearance issue on the cv cup at the bottom of the cycle.. it hits the arm.. i'll only get 36 maybe 38 out of it..


03:17 12/31/15  JersDunz:
i'm sorry I forget my manners all the pics from this build are on another forum.
Here is some stuff to look at. just so your familiar with the setup.

There is no moving the inner arm mounts with out some serious modification.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 01, 2016, 02:15:38 AM
I keep trying to kill this thread... not sure why.
Here was a super fun ride I ran most of it with a flat tire and didn't notice..lol
https://youtu.be/egYOIYwhnE8 (https://youtu.be/egYOIYwhnE8)



(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F2015-08-092012.54.21_zpscyrv1ugr.jpg&hash=0cee048b26b05f848536650ba0a58bd0dc1a53c9) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/2015-08-092012.54.21_zpscyrv1ugr.jpg.html)

I think some of my u-joint troubles are with that muffler you can see there heating up my driveline.. it'll get moved again.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 01, 2016, 08:42:56 AM
I'm thinking the exhaust has zero to do with it.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 01, 2016, 11:38:00 AM
oh come on now ,serious modification is what we do best here wheres you sense of adventure  ;D rofl rofl ;D
ok so what rpm range did you run at when you stayed in 2nd before the rpm and on the blaster 26's? what is the gear reduction in the rpm and tooth count on front and rear sprocket now? what hp and tq is your engine rated at and at what rpm? yes you have to answer this  LMAO
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 01, 2016, 12:06:07 PM
you got lucky that front tire didn't come off the rim lol but had you gone faster the heat may have re inflated it  ;D rofl rofl ;D i am surprised it didn't steer funny that direction  but glad no accidents from it.

with u joints.....the best i ever used were rockford u joints. everything else wore waaay to fast or flat gave up. spicers were 2nd on the list. in the 1310 series ( 1/2ton) rockford makes a fun in the mud series with have the grease zert in the end cap rather than in the cross section which makes the joint stronger and easier to grease imo.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 01, 2016, 01:50:09 PM
I'm thinking the exhaust has zero to do with it.

It was heating it up enough that it required time to handle it..
I figured that could have helped break down the needle grease.
Before that I was killing one on a seasonal basis..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 01, 2016, 06:59:58 PM
ya that would be hot, now how about the info and specs i requested  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Nutz4sand on January 01, 2016, 07:43:03 PM
It was heating it up enough that it required time to handle it..
I figured that could have helped break down the needle grease.
Before that I was killing one on a seasonal basis..

Just a curiosity question with the heat. Did the other side ever give you grief or only this side? (Or is there a second exhaust dump on the other side too?)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 01, 2016, 09:39:29 PM
ya that would be hot, now how about the info and specs i requested  ;D ;)

I already told you, you ocd sum bitch...lol

5.4:1
Counter is 18
Input on box is 17.

Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 01, 2016, 09:42:15 PM
Just a curiosity question with the heat. Did the other side ever give you grief or only this side? (Or is there a second exhaust dump on the other side too?)

It was pretty random ..
The last 2 failed under the hot side, one had just a few hours on it..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 07:43:29 AM
and i didn't right it down so don't remember lol
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 07:50:24 AM
Just how fricken close was the exhaust to the u joint anyway?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 07:51:02 AM
have you ever looked to see if your honda motor has the same spline as the box? i know several yamaha and honda sport bikes in the same cc share the same spline just offset the sprocket a little more.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 07:53:44 AM
i don't remember from seeing it in person but in the pic it looks like it's pointed at the shaft. now after riding with him and knowing he's 1/2 to wot ALL the time lol i bet he is cranking some heat out at that axle and knowing that at that elevation the boiling point it lowered i can see it. not that much grease in there to begin so def need the best and higher temp grease he can find.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 08:16:18 AM
Still skeptical. Personal opinion is failure was due to lack of lube,not temperature.  I'll bet 99% of failed uj's are due to improper lubing or bad cup seals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH-fvddVt-g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH-fvddVt-g)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 08:23:33 AM
Install method can be a big issue as well. How many of us press the cups in instead of grabbing a big ol' hammer? I threw the hammer install method in the trash a long time ago. Ditto for disassembly. Put the thing in the press.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 08:32:49 AM
the hotter they get the faster the grease wants to run out and i have had enough experience with neapco to know they are not up to the task on motor cycle powered sand rail or 3.8 v6 powered either lol  they a poor design compared to spicer or rockford imo based on my application. i modified a very large c clamp years ago so not to use a hammer and the vise when ever possible.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 08:34:10 AM
now given this is a truck chart and not sandrail chart but principal is the same imo and is why i asked what rpm you were running at and hp/tq of that motor when you were able to hold 2nd gear all day.

http://www.southwestpowersports.com/gearchange.html (http://www.southwestpowersports.com/gearchange.html)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 08:41:07 AM
If the seals are good the grease cannot do any thing other than lube the joint. Still cannot see the temp of the uj going past the operating range of quality/proper lube. We all know I am not in favor of uj axles but on the other hand I cannot see the operating temp being a factor in failure. It is much more likely the large and constant angular change is to blame or just using whatever grease is in the grease gun......
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 08:41:29 AM
interesting video and always grease till it comes out of all 4 caps that i thought was just common knowledge lol when i ran them i would grease them before every trip and wipe off the excess of course and on a week trip i would grease them again say wens evening or afternoon depending. but these practices were probably over kill however i would get many seasons w/o issue with the good u joints like rockford or spicer. i do have to say out of all the brands i tried neapco is the bottom of the barrel and that one really surprised back then since they were still made in the usa where the precisions weren't at that time.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 08:43:04 AM
If the seals are good the grease cannot do any thing other than lube the joint. Still cannot see the temp of the uj going past the operating range of quality/proper lube. We all know I am not in favor of uj axles but on the other hand I cannot see the operating temp being a factor in failure. It is much more likely the large and constant angular change is to blame or just using whatever grease is in the grease gun......
the brand is a huge part of the issue which will acct for seal failure. neapco and the cheaper ones had what always felt like hard plastic seals and they would crack easy.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 08:54:16 AM
Most lubes are good to 325F ,some synthetics are good to over 550F. I stand by my position that it is not a temperature related failure. Cheap components,improper lube methods,improper install and run of the mill lube are most likely culprits. Temperature is not the issue,IMO unless you are building some serious heat but I seriously doubt the axles were ever going over 300 degrees.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 09:02:36 AM
interesting video and always grease till it comes out of all 4 caps that i thought was just common knowledge lol when i ran them i would grease them before every trip and wipe off the excess of course and on a week trip i would grease them again say wens evening or afternoon depending. but these practices were probably over kill however i would get many seasons w/o issue with the good u joints like rockford or spicer. i do have to say out of all the brands i tried neapco is the bottom of the barrel and that one really surprised back then since they were still made in the usa where the precisions weren't at that time.
I'll bet a c note that 99% of all uj's lubed are done incorrectly and only partial lube is achieved. I'd also bet that most "techs" will NOT replace a uj because one or more trunions will not purge.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 02, 2016, 09:20:23 AM
agreed

with a cracked seal and a lot of heat i can see them wearing very fast especially the neapco. enemy has several years on his rockford u joints behind his turbo busa running 1100 paddles. given jersdunz is soooo close to st a ( lucky sob lol )that he see's a lot more run time.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 02, 2016, 09:28:54 AM
The " lot of heat " thing is all speculation since it was not measured and even too hot to touch would likely be well within operating temps....................wellllllll,you can see my skepticism. IF the temp of the uj's was taken and is/was above 300F then I'll back off my assertion.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 02, 2016, 07:05:28 PM
The " lot of heat " thing is all speculation since it was not measured and even too hot to touch would likely be well within operating temps....................wellllllll,you can see my skepticism. IF the temp of the uj's was taken and is/was above 300F then I'll back off my assertion.
The " lot of heat " thing is all speculation since it was not measured and even too hot to touch would likely be well within operating temps....................wellllllll,you can see my skepticism. IF the temp of the uj's was taken and is/was above 300F then I'll back off my assertion.

I see your point.
Watching this video... You posted I bet it's a lube issue. I was running conversion joints and they never purge equally..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 03, 2016, 12:03:44 AM
the hotter they get the faster the grease wants to run out and i have had enough experience with neapco to know they are not up to the task on motor cycle powered sand rail or 3.8 v6 powered either lol  they a poor design compared to spicer or rockford imo based on my application. i modified a very large c clamp years ago so not to use a hammer and the vise when ever possible.
many times the ears are deformed/misaligned/bugged up during disassembly.Very few ,myself included,have proper fixtures for removal of a u-joint. Years ago I attended the Spicer/Dana driveline school in Cincinnatti. They teach the proper way to do things and I can tell us this much; we don't usually do it that way. :lol:
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 03, 2016, 11:17:38 PM
OL Brian had to throw more options in my direction.. He has some goodies from an old build that he had to tempt me with..
Here is the question to spacer or not to spacer..  left side is with @ 40d and the right side is without @ 40d ...

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2Fcd77c0bb-2a42-40bf-b462-6f1341053502_zpswqyheqc6.png&hash=e8e64c58cffb6703716d822e249fa5455c67496f) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/cd77c0bb-2a42-40bf-b462-6f1341053502_zpswqyheqc6.png.html)

Damnit i'm liking the side with the spacer.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 04, 2016, 05:59:04 AM
You talking about the spacer between the cv cup and the cv? If so,what did that do to your plunge numbers?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 04, 2016, 09:35:01 AM
axle looks a lot more parallel with a arm and yes what fabr asked....what are plunge #'s going to be as a result or will they change? also with that spacer will this get you to an even # on axle length? gets it a lot closer to lining up with the pivot points
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 04, 2016, 10:31:33 AM
axle looks a lot more parallel with a arm and yes what fabr asked....what are plunge #'s going to be as a result or will they change? also with that spacer will this get you to an even # on axle length? gets it a lot closer to lining up with the pivot points

Nothing changes but the location of the pivots there relationships to each other remain identical.
it simply moves the axle and the hub assembly out the inch.
by moving the axle stub and housing out, and the pivots in,  (circled in red)
all geometry is left alone.. just gained clearance for more travel angle.
Now if I could just get those parts at a cheaper price...
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 04, 2016, 10:54:36 AM
Does your cad do motion simulation? Not arguing,just asking ,+ but m
have you verified the changes did not alter the geometry. I'm looking at it on my phone so I may not be seeing something.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 04, 2016, 11:53:54 AM
the spacer will stand the axle a slight amount up higher the diff i saw in the drawing is because the a arms are not connected to the pivots at carrier on left as they are on right in the pic.just for grins and giggles draw a line through the centers of the pivot points on the carrier and frame and through the cv's at the same angle of the pivot points. and measure distance from those two lines
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on January 04, 2016, 12:10:15 PM
the spacer will stand the axle a slight amount up higher the diff i saw in the drawing is because the a arms are not connected to the pivots at carrier on left as they are on right in the pic.just for grins and giggles draw a line through the centers of the pivot points on the carrier and frame and through the cv's at the same angle of the pivot points. and measure distance from those two lines
This number must be same.

What parts are you needing for less?  I may know a guy(or girl ;)) who knows a guy?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 04, 2016, 06:07:26 PM
Am I seeing it right? At full droop you are going positive camber? That is not good. If you have modeled this suspension llike that ,and then calculated plunge,based on that geometry,you will likely find that the plunge will change significantly if you align the rear later to remove the positive camber at full droop. If I am looking at it right I would suggest you model it again with corrected camber at full droop, design the pivot locations on frame and hub plate to give a good camber curve ,all based on the centerline of the cv's. I would ditch the thought of using a spacer ,IMO.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 04, 2016, 06:09:24 PM
I assume the p[ositive camber at full droop was to allow a bit more travel? Personally,I'd keep the good geometry regardless of travel. Just my .02 tho.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Yummi on January 04, 2016, 07:56:43 PM
I assume the p[ositive camber at full droop was to allow a bit more travel? Personally,I'd keep the good geometry regardless of travel. Just my .02 tho.

You are not alone in that thought.  Besides bragging rights, that extra 1" of travel is not needed.  Harder to overcome bad design than lack of total travel.  Usable is the goal.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 04, 2016, 08:36:34 PM
I assume the p[ositive camber at full droop was to allow a bit more travel? Personally,I'd keep the good geometry regardless of travel. Just my .02 tho.

I added 1" on the vertical spacing to the outer hubs. the intent wasn't for travel it was so the hub wouldn't roll in on its self at full droop. In this latest mock up i changed it from 1" to 1/4" to minimize the plunge it was around 3/8"
before i installed the rpm. I think that change bumped it up to about 3/4" or so. I have put lots of hours on this rear drive in 2 chassis and it handles really good. I have always managed to keep it wheels down.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 04, 2016, 08:38:31 PM
You are not alone in that thought.  Besides bragging rights, that extra 1" of travel is not needed.  Harder to overcome bad design than lack of total travel.  Usable is the goal.

I'll keep my bragging rights simple and short...
My buggy breaks all the damn time.. But i'm still 35 minutes away from st.A

lol
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 04, 2016, 09:31:55 PM
if you don't want to re do the whole thing as i think you saying  ;D then if you could atleast pitch the tabs the a arms mount to at the wheel to match the offset of the frame side it would be better. how hard would it be to weld new ones on the wheel bearing carriers? the spacer at the top gets you out closer to that pivot but just curious with the spacers how far you would have to adjust it at the wheel side to match it? i'm guessing from the pic your 1.75" in from pivot on the frame side with spacer?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 04, 2016, 09:52:43 PM
if you don't want to re do the whole thing as i think you saying  ;D then if you could atleast pitch the tabs the a arms mount to at the wheel to match the offset of the frame side it would be better. how hard would it be to weld new ones on the wheel bearing carriers? the spacer at the top gets you out closer to that pivot but just curious with the spacers how far you would have to adjust it at the wheel side to match it? i'm guessing from the pic your 1.75" in from pivot on the frame side with spacer?

I fully plan to build new outter hub assemblies.. those are cake .
Replacing the whole rear assembly of the chassis that i just built in august is what i'd like to avoid.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: sandvw on January 05, 2016, 05:16:41 AM
I'll keep my bragging rights simple and short...
My buggy breaks all the damn time.. But i'm still 35 minutes away from st.A

lol
I do not know about the first one but for sure you got them on the second one 35 minutes.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on January 05, 2016, 05:52:27 AM
I added 1" on the vertical spacing to the outer hubs. the intent wasn't for travel it was so the hub wouldn't roll in on its self at full droop. In this latest mock up i changed it from 1" to 1/4" to minimize the plunge it was around 3/8"
before i installed the rpm. I think that change bumped it up to about 3/4" or so. I have put lots of hours on this rear drive in 2 chassis and it handles really good. I have always managed to keep it wheels down.
The plunge is 3/8" or was 3/8"??  This will not work if so.  If you had 3/8" plunge that is what was breaking ujoints.  Even with slipper axles.  Design for 0 and figure on some from real world build and flexing.

This part I'm lost on too.  Please explain

When I built my rear end, I designed no camber gain.  Wish I had, but I set my rear tires to -1* and stays same thru travel.  Since your leaving frame side of car Need the ## from inner CV center pivot to center of inner A-arm mounts.  Line thru upper and lower mount and measure to center of CV pivot.  The outer hub mounts will need to be offset by same to 0 out plunge.  Then I would add maybe 1/2" height to the wheel hub mounts you are remaking to get camber.  The 1/2 should be added to the upper, keeping the axle parallel to the lower arm.  With it set at 0 at full droop you should gain 2-3* camber depending on travel ##.   Are you trying to keep existing arms too.  I see no reason you cant other than they will determine which axle length you may need.  But most axles can be trimmed down a bit to get correct fit.  I have a crude drawing somewhere, not as nice as your CAD.

Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Yummi on January 05, 2016, 06:12:43 AM
I'll keep my bragging rights simple and short...
My buggy breaks all the damn time.. But i'm still 35 minutes away from st.A

lol

Them are good bragers. 
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 05, 2016, 06:39:51 AM
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F45EXPRESS-Reargussetsdone_zpsc8bcacc0.jpg&hash=a4747ffc668556346b4f959f8cd73203c08be206) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/45EXPRESS-Reargussetsdone_zpsc8bcacc0.jpg.html)

Slipper axles as you had mentioned.
When I had the spool everything was at zero or very close to zero plunge.
But of course I didn't design my spool to match the rpm ( I wish i had )
So last August when the rpm went in I gained about 3/8" of plunge.
That was the 3 week from new to failure set up on this last joint

It may have been more than 3/8 too that just is a number that's stuck in my head.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 05, 2016, 11:19:52 AM
So today I can't help but wonder how much headache in the future i'm going to save by changing up the rear arms cutting out the arm mounts and squaring everything up like it should be.
If you guys have any design ideas on how I might do that I'm open for ideas.
Print out on of the section views I've posted and mark um would ya please..

it really seems wastefull to do that considering the work I put into it last summer but damnit, i'm tired of drive train issues...
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 05, 2016, 12:08:27 PM
you won't regret redoing it with improved geometry now  in the long run. That's a given.your buggy parts will adore you more as well..................................... rofl
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 10, 2016, 02:18:08 AM
I went out to jasons shop and acquired some fresh real info from the car.
Good news is I wont be adding any unnecessary travel.
The better news is because,
there will be no "new" travel slash angle.
I shouldn't have any interference's to deal with & can proceed without major modifications, beyond the new bearing carriers.

I thought from initial setup, That i was running more angle than I am.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160107_182908_zpsrcviblw0.jpg&hash=a096381ad01f410e5c4a9991c95affa18ff8d604) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160107_182908_zpsrcviblw0.jpg.html)
Zero at the Back cross tube.

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160107_182942_zpsjnbswuje.jpg&hash=36a40430ec6b72b53ce29b446fc46e4e537491f6) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160107_182942_zpsjnbswuje.jpg.html)
Just over 25-26* hanging from the ( unloaded ) Limit strap.

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160107_182923_zpshgq52ojw.jpg&hash=cad0d77461d964e2443c78fd80eef7514ea54641) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160107_182923_zpshgq52ojw.jpg.html)
And right around 32-33* @ the end of the shock hard mounts.
I'll limit them to 30* assuming boots clear the bottom cross tube and forget them for a while!!

Here is a few pics of the new hubs and alignment plates
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F2016%2520BEARING%2520HUB%2520CARRIER%252002_zpswwswqcd5.jpg&hash=75e16f7c6b9a5646e2df81552cac7eddf19f17e5) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/2016%20BEARING%20HUB%20CARRIER%2002_zpswwswqcd5.jpg.html)

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F2016%2520BEARING%2520HUB%2520CARRIER%252001_zpscqlmvn8k.jpg&hash=45b21d87a84503bab4f286184bed1b3c49692858) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/2016%20BEARING%20HUB%20CARRIER%2001_zpscqlmvn8k.jpg.html)

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2FHUB%2520WITH%2520ALIGN%2520PLATES%252002_zpsbts3co6b.jpg&hash=dad5d7de7d26267f6efe6a5aecb75334ca0e693b) (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/HUB%20WITH%20ALIGN%20PLATES%2002_zpsbts3co6b.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 10, 2016, 08:20:33 AM
What's the purpose of the purple plates?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 10, 2016, 03:47:11 PM
Just an alignment jig for assembly
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 10, 2016, 06:00:06 PM
I see,said the blind man. bb:
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 11, 2016, 04:24:07 PM
Parts in the mail...
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on January 11, 2016, 05:01:09 PM
drill them and put grease zerts in them
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 11, 2016, 06:15:06 PM
With that thick a spacer,I'd suggest you have a spare cv flange in the trailer if you use Empi ones.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 14, 2016, 05:21:30 PM
I received some goodies in the Mail.. Cut file was handed off waiting for parts their.

F150 joints from Rick
http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/FB_IMG_1452730834274_zpsvbjwcrjg.jpg.html (http://"[url=http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/FB_IMG_1452730834274_zpsvbjwcrjg.jpg.html)"](https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2FFB_IMG_1452730834274_zpsvbjwcrjg.jpg&hash=02997e64d2b8be45f90203b4a0b4c36725daa23c)[/URL]

Rcv Ultimate fixxed 930
http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160114_122911-1_zpsv55xdeyf.jpg.html (http://"[url=http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160114_122911-1_zpsv55xdeyf.jpg.html)"](https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160114_122911-1_zpsv55xdeyf.jpg&hash=162f41356f24a9e71a866d49ea72efe9b3046cec)[/URL]
http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160114_122929-1_zpsz73zgsqf.jpg.html (http://"[url=http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160114_122929-1_zpsz73zgsqf.jpg.html)"](https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160114_122929-1_zpsz73zgsqf.jpg&hash=b4c78cfb8370595d29832c59dcd1d131a02151a7)[/URL]
http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160114_123023-1_zpsp3tbtmdk.jpg.html (http://"[url=http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160114_123023-1_zpsp3tbtmdk.jpg.html)"](https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160114_123023-1_zpsp3tbtmdk.jpg&hash=d644d066e09b6ad781506975d64642165e2fdd2f)[/URL]
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 14, 2016, 07:09:06 PM
rcv really makes some nice stuff don't they.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on January 14, 2016, 10:50:22 PM
rcv really makes some nice stuff don't they.

I leaning towards.... YUP!!
I hope so .. they are certainly not giving it away..
Here's to years of dune ripping reliability with good American parts!!

 :e
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on January 15, 2016, 06:05:49 AM
I had one fail recently. Over 4 years use. I got 8 of nearly the first ones they made.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on March 14, 2016, 11:36:05 PM
I still haven't finished putting my buggy back together. But that's not to say I haven't stayed busy... Damn it, it's almost April.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on March 15, 2016, 06:36:49 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 16, 2016, 04:58:53 PM
where's the update pics of yours?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on March 16, 2016, 07:03:42 PM
Geez,ds,he just posted updates 2 days ago..................... ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 17, 2016, 10:49:11 AM
it`s not his rail
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on March 17, 2016, 06:55:38 PM
UMMM,OK.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 18, 2016, 06:58:21 AM
 ;D ;) lol
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on March 18, 2016, 01:27:10 PM
I haven't gotten much done on my buggy, I kinda got tired of looking at it.
Been working on Jason's non stop...
I did get the fluid control fittings drilled and welded in an awesome fashion
that didn't require disassembly.. and then the Temp sensor happened.
Vacuuming the chips didn't work as good on the bigger hole that required a pilot hole.

I have a derale Cooling setup from summit and some relays to set it up on.
I can't finish the axles until I get this done. they just need final assembly.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on March 19, 2016, 05:24:00 PM
Chips no good in reverse box.  Better w salsa.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on March 22, 2016, 11:11:32 PM
like to have a bit of gear oil with me chips...
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 23, 2016, 06:00:17 PM
i can see that it would help them slide down and out lol
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on March 25, 2016, 08:49:34 PM
ewwwww,yuk!!!!!!! You a sick man DS!!!!!
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on March 26, 2016, 02:50:08 AM
ROFLMAO, Freakin greasy turd....

 I Finally did some work on it the other day had some help getting the last bung welded on. Emailed dan He's sending me the latest and greatest input shaft bearing just for insurance. That will be good for some peace of mind.
along with knowing that the oil is running under temp will let me hammer it with confidence. Damn the jones to get out there is kickin in full swing.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 26, 2016, 07:57:58 AM
don't fight the urge!!!!!!!   on getting out there not on the greasy turd  LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 26, 2016, 07:58:24 AM
and btw peace of mind is always a good thing!
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on March 26, 2016, 07:59:19 AM
ewwwww,yuk!!!!!!! You a sick man DS!!!!!

just food for thought  rofl rofl
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 12, 2016, 11:18:41 PM
So I really do suck for not staying more detailed and up to date in this thread.
Building Jason's new front suspension was a huge distraction.

Im almost done with the buggy. Waiting on my wheels atm machinist has them.
Cv's packed trans reinstalled cooler and pump wired.
Still in the process of trying to determine what level to run the gear lube at.
So far I've got close to 1 1/4 quarts in there.

https://youtu.be/e3oHeTV5WmM.









Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on April 13, 2016, 03:47:43 PM
he looks happy in the pic with his new front end
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 13, 2016, 09:38:37 PM
he is a happy camper... that is A Yuge Improvement..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 16, 2016, 05:40:35 PM
I ordered some outer boot flanges. so I can get the boots to stay put w/o the hose clamps. which sucks because I really want to go rip this bitch.. !! Better safe than broken in the sand right!!

http://www.sandparts.com/930-CV-Forged-Flange-Chromoly-for-Maxi-Boot_p_72173.html (http://www.sandparts.com/930-CV-Forged-Flange-Chromoly-for-Maxi-Boot_p_72173.html)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on April 17, 2016, 06:57:22 AM
FYI you will have to clearance the flange for the cv balls. I run the ford cv boots from oreilly auto on both ford cv and rcv. It's snug but cheap and easy to get and   Believe it's #8435.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 17, 2016, 10:21:23 PM
Oh yea now that I think about that I get exactly what your saying.. I just got an air compressor and a new CP die grinder and a few Carbide burs.. I knew i had a reason for doing that!!


Here are some pics from that last few days.
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160410_191002-1_zpsncrtdncv.jpg&hash=1fe1dba6287077d6b2dd7f8bca89b9b3b4cfc247) (http://"http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160410_191002-1_zpsncrtdncv.jpg.html")

(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr102%2Fjersdunz%2Fshort%2520sand%2520car%2520mini%2520buggy%2Fthe%252045%2520express%2520design%2520ideas%2FThe%252045%2520Express%2520Build%2520File%2F20160410_190949-1_zpsnre2j20i.jpg&hash=ad88957cfac82504cc6a01ceb90b557f2c7460b9) (http://"http://s142.photobucket.com/user/jersdunz/media/short%20sand%20car%20mini%20buggy/the%2045%20express%20design%20ideas/The%2045%20Express%20Build%20File/20160410_190949-1_zpsnre2j20i.jpg.html")

Some of these pics i don't like sharing ( my Wiring is an Embarrassment compared to so many of these master builds on here )
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First time she came home was today... I like my new Garage!!

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Started Playing around with Getting a Scoop Figured out so this cooler will get some air flow.
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It was a quite the process getting the right Drill Bit Located for the 14mm Wheel Studs and after I bought the bit I needed the damn thing chipped drilling the first hole!!!  But I got it done.. I will be happy to get some rear brake hubs on here so I can shed the weight of these heavy Stainless Plates..

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.I love how she looks with some 13.00 plus shoes installed
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Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 17, 2016, 10:29:36 PM
I run the ford cv boots from oreilly auto on both ford cv and rcv. It's snug but cheap and easy to get and   Believe it's #8435.

I have two empi boots that came with the stubs I purchased From RickS the others Nampa had in stock Same molded numbers as the Empi's
I'd be willing to bet they are identical to the ones your referencing.

Nampa # 686-2338
http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/CTD6862338 (http://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/CTD6862338)
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on April 18, 2016, 06:01:00 AM
Looking really fine!!! I especially like the extensive use of zip ties. ;) After 2 years of my car to car and intercom hanging in my dash with a big old zip tie holding it in place. The bolts fell out and a zip tie did the trick to finish the trip. I just fixed that yesterday.  5:  WTH,it worked. I mean if it ain't really ,really,really broke ,rigged is fine. Right???   rofl rofl  When you coming by to tidy up my shop? Mine is in a state of EF5 destruction. YOURS is clean enough to eat off the floor!
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 18, 2016, 10:59:23 PM
When you coming by to tidy up my shop? Mine is in a state of EF5 destruction. YOURS is clean enough to eat off the floor!

Oh I remedied that idea today ... I installed an oiler to my air tool line.. OMG that makes a mess.
Then mix it in with the shower of fine carbide dust... Yowsa I have a mess to clean up.

Carl!! Thanks for the heads up on the flanges.. That saved me some pain. I'm sure of it.

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FYI, the power commander and the EFI box do have some 3m double sided paint peeler tape underneath so the zip ties all 40 of them are the just in-case..lol  I should fix that while I have the side off.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 20, 2016, 10:38:38 PM
These boots are much happier now with the flanges.

I decided to try the soft hose clamps from McMaster
http://www.mcmaster.com/#5574k25/=122melh (http://www.mcmaster.com/#5574k25/=122melh)

Carl I think you was close on that number..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on April 21, 2016, 08:20:48 PM
nice work and nice garage. looks good and the scoops will come in handy. looks like your rims are bent? nothing wrong with the wiring as far as i can see. the boot flanges have to be cut that way for those angles other wise i believe anything over 28* hit them.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 21, 2016, 08:52:29 PM
I got to run it for 10 minutes today.. It was chorus angels

Except for those loose sloppy wheel bearings.. Apparently my spacers are not thick enough.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 21, 2016, 10:59:37 PM
Check out that lean..
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on April 22, 2016, 05:22:01 AM
You running the spacer between the cv and bearing or against the nut?  I run a 3/8 spacer againts the nut, and a 1/8" between the cv and bearing.  I toasted 3 bearings on drivers side w/o 1/8" washer in there.  Splines bottom out just before the faces snug up.  I'm running the Timken bearing hubs, and empi cv's.  Other brands fit better atleast thats what I'm finding.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on April 24, 2016, 07:48:25 PM
You running the spacer between the cv and bearing or against the nut?  I run a 3/8 spacer againts the nut, and a 1/8" between the cv and bearing.  I toasted 3 bearings on drivers side w/o 1/8" washer in there.  Splines bottom out just before the faces snug up.  I'm running the Timken bearing hubs, and empi cv's.  Other brands fit better atleast thats what I'm finding.

I had a spacer in there But I didn't pay close enough attention and it bitt me.
The spacers that I got with the f150 parts from Rick were the correct width and i stuck them between the bearing and the spindle nut.
While putting the old micro stub spacers the skinny one between the 2.. You gotta make sure the splines are covered.

Definitely a noob Move. I already ordered some new hubs from Rick since I loaded them with sand..lol Impatient it was worth it.
 5:

So otherwise I have gotta say any of you on the fence about this setup still running joints .. I think it's worth it.
She's currently the smoothest thing I've driven on the sand with comparable driveling angles..

The gearing seems to be right what I had intended it to be.. Rallying 3rd with a very small jump to 4th.
I hope the trans doesn't disagree with me on that. The oil system on the RPM is Removing heat from the box.
in just a few minutes,  the cooler was getting warm.

I did only rip on it for a few minutes a lot can change with a solid 30 minutes or Proper pace driving but i'm feeling good about it.. Its going to be a good season XXX fingers
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on April 25, 2016, 03:39:38 PM
given the chance i would go back to u joints.....far less mess but centers have to be on the money and aligned end for end on shafts. looks like you got if figured out and will get it fixed. put some time on it and report back. fyi the f150 and 97 cherokee bearings are considerably larger and stronger and yet i still wore my left rear out in 4 years.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on May 07, 2016, 11:05:20 PM
The big difference from the hubs i have and the hubs i just received.. back spacing of where the splined are begins


Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on May 08, 2016, 06:08:12 PM
the 1 on the left has the recess like the 97f150 does. better choice. however 01  or 02 impala have the 5 on 4.75 bp i believe and same spline count slight recess but not deep enough so still require a spacer. the impala bearing is the size of the intrepid ones carl runs as well. the 97 cherokee like enemy uses and i used to are considerably larger od. i have replaced my left rear now right after the st a  trip. i donat think enemy has ever had to replace one of his. the cherokee wb`s use a bastard 27 spline like the oler s 10`s do. kartech sells chromolly stubs for them but a little pricy
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: dsrace on May 08, 2016, 06:10:04 PM
97 f150 wb is barely larger than the cherokee. as in 1\32m smaller and same on 3 bolt flange pattern.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on May 10, 2016, 09:43:44 PM
These have been putting up with my short frequent beatings since 2012 and no issues.. until I filled them with sand the other day..
I'll stick with the little ones they're cheap and easy to replace, if needed.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on May 29, 2016, 07:22:27 PM
Well I made another visit to the dunes this morning.
For some reason I had the thought that I'd never felt the cv's for heat so far.

Both the inner and the outers were scald your finders hot.. I thought these suckers should be running just over warm 140 150 ish.
any thoughts?
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fabr on May 29, 2016, 10:31:00 PM
Mine are usually pretty warm,can put a hand on them but not want to keep it there. Never really hit them with a temp gun. The ONE that went bad would get very hot though.Ya,burn the fingers hot.Are you positive you put the cage in correctly? I THINK that was the issue with mine that went bad. eyes
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on May 29, 2016, 10:49:49 PM
Mine are usually pretty warm,can put a hand on them but not want to keep it there. Never really hit them with a temp gun. The ONE that went bad would get very hot though.Ya,burn the fingers hot.Are you positive you put the cage in correctly? I THINK that was the issue with mine that went bad. eyes

well what has me questioning.. is the outters running about the same temp.
i'm going to pull them apart clean & inspect them and try a different grease.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: Carlriddle on May 30, 2016, 05:24:52 AM
DS and I were hitting them with temp gauge at LS.  Mine were cooler than his a little bit.  Aslong as temp is under the grease rating your ok.  But mid 100's is where mine ran.  I use a moly cv grease from parts store.  Nothing crazy $$$.  I'd also recheck the alignment so ya arn't running with too much slip on splines.  That would generate some heat.  If DS was there he would do cv's for ya, he loves cv grease.  rofl rofl
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: fastcorvairs on May 30, 2016, 07:14:40 AM
the 1 on the left has the recess like the 97f150 does. better choice. however 01  or 02 impala have the 5 on 4.75 bp i believe and same spline count slight recess but not deep enough so still require a spacer. the impala bearing is the size of the intrepid ones carl runs as well. the 97 cherokee like enemy uses and i used to are considerably larger od. i have replaced my left rear now right after the st a  trip. i donat think enemy has ever had to replace one of his. the cherokee wb`s use a bastard 27 spline like the oler s 10`s do. kartech sells chromolly stubs for them but a little pricy

My old green Mantis car has had a set of the cheap S10 27 spline hubs in it since it was built (2006). You all know it was driven hard and put up wet many times at 25 to 30 pounds of boost.  the new owner has been thrashing on them for a couple of years now.   So I can't see paying Kartec all the Hi $$$$$$$$$$$$ they want for there 33 spline hubs.
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on May 31, 2016, 06:50:21 AM
My old green Mantis car has had a set of the cheap S10 27 spline hubs in it since it was built (2006). You all know it was driven hard and put up wet many times at 25 to 30 pounds of boost.  the new owner has been thrashing on them for a couple of years now.   So I can't see paying Kartec all the Hi $$$$$$$$$$$$ they want for there 33 spline hubs.

I agree these are what I have installed. 
stub shaft  -  http://www.rickskraschsite.com/catalog.php?ProdID=GM-874
Bearings( pair )  -  http://www.rickskraschsite.com/catalog.php?ProdID=KDAR-IHK
Title: Re: Non plunging 930 rear drive project.
Post by: jersdunz on May 31, 2016, 06:59:07 AM
I use a moly cv grease from parts store.
That is what I did. I got mine from Napa, extreme pressure high moly

Nothing crazy $$$.  I'd also recheck the alignment so ya arn't running with too much slip on splines.

I think my new bearing carriers even with the interior gussets have given in to some flex. I'm going to get some new parts cut out of 1/4.

I was trying to be conservative on un sprung weight,
the edge of the cv cup and the edge of the carrier are slightly off of alignment just looking at it by eye.
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