High Angle Unis

[Mongoose]

Hi All,

I want to build new driveshafts using unis and yokes that will give me more angle.

Anyone know where I can buy something similar to what Yoshi uses on his cars.

The plan is to weld them into Cro-Mo tube as I have already to get more travel.

Thanks

[fabr]

Nice ride!

[Yummi]

Hi Moongose - welcome to the fray.  Might want to try the drive shaft super store?































Ok, I was just funning you there - stay away from them......

http://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?topic=731.0

Again, welcome.....  (Can we get more pictures of the car?)

[Mongoose]

Hi Moongose - welcome to the fray.  Might want to try the drive shaft super store?

Yeah thanks for that 

(Can we get more pictures of the car?)

Sure, thanks, you might have seen these on MBN (can I say that here ?  )









Bit of a history lesson if anybody is interested, this is a Mongoose design (modified a bit now) built from plans that were one of the first Bike powered Minis going back a while.

Mongoose then sold the business to Sand Bullet who sold the plans off to ProSandBox and changed the design to what they have today.

Here's an early sandbullet and there first long travel, you can see the similarities





We have buit 3 of these so far.

# 1


# 2



and whilst it's perfect for the racing we built it for, I now want to get more travel to do stupid stunts 

Cheers,
Kev

[dsrace]

Hi All,

I want to build new driveshafts using unis and yokes that will give me more angle.

Anyone know where I can buy something similar to what Yoshi uses on his cars.

The plan is to weld them into Cro-Mo tube as I have already to get more travel.

Thanks

just a question, is that a 4 link rear end?

how much angle are you looking for?

what size motors are you running?

what size tires in the rear?

I have a lot of experience with 4 link rear ends!

got any closer shots of the axles?

how long are your current ones and what angle are they good for now?

[Nutz4sand]

I guess I am needing a little learning here.

I understand how a five link works. But when I first saw the original mongooses (mongeese?) they had a driveshaft rear axle with u joints and no slip joints. The driveshaft was technically the fifth link to keep the hub from torquing in or out under power I thought (Pic below)

How does a four link keep the hub pointed in the right direction with CV's? It seems like the rear hub would try to toe in BIG time under power with traction. Anyone can explain this to me with the CV's how a "four" link can work?  Are you using non plunging CV's and making them hold the hub pointed in the right direction?  Thanx Bill
 

[SPEC]

Nice ride...
I'd like to know more
DS and Nutz beat me to the questions

[dsrace]

I guess I am needing a little learning here.

I understand how a five link works. But when I first saw the original mongooses (mongeese?) they had a driveshaft rear axle with u joints and no slip joints. The driveshaft was technically the fifth link to keep the hub from torquing in or out under power I thought (Pic below)

How does a four link keep the hub pointed in the right direction with CV's? It seems like the rear hub would try to toe in BIG time under power with traction. Anyone can explain this to me with the CV's how a "four" link can work?  Are you using non plunging CV's and making them hold the hub pointed in the right direction?  Thanx Bill
 

yes a 4 link uses the solid ( non plunging ) as the fifth link. very simple and light! a personal favorite of mine but it has a down side. if you brake a joint or yolk then you lose your fifth link, we all know what can happen if your wheel folds in on itself, this is why you use a joint that will handle atleast twice what your putting out or go with one 3x the rating. I have never had one fail on myself or any customer that I know of, because I used quality parts and keep a very close eye on my joints and shafts. also if you have someone that does not know how to adjust this type of rear end ( even though it is so simple it's childs play ) they will do a lot of damage fast. the joint/axle is not only taking a torsional load but a side load as well. in this configuration you are almost doubling the load to the joint. if this design ( similar uses are jaguar / corvettes ) is done right for someone that keeps their rail in top maintenance this is a very simple-light weight rear end.

I don't know that you would want to or could use non plunging cv's with a 4 link. I don't know that someone hasn't tried, I just know that I have never tried. there would have to be 0 slop in the non plung cv's. I think the non plunge cv still has 1/8" plus or minus of movement don't they?

here is a pic of one the rails I built back when I was building the 4 link rear end.

[Nutz4sand]

I may be a lil out of line here but I am thinking not.

Instead of the four link would adding one more bottom link for a five link really add that much extra weight?

It seems it would be a lot stronger and let the CV's or U-joints go back to the one job of transferring torque.

Plus if you ever did loose a CV or Ujoint there would be less chance of damage.

Of course you would need (or at least want I would think to eliminate the chance of binding) plunging shaft with U-joints or plunging CV's but thats not hard to come up with.

[Boostinjdm]

I agree with nutz. 

[dsrace]

I may be a lil out of line here but I am thinking not.

Instead of the four link would adding one more bottom link for a five link really add that much extra weight?

It seems it would be a lot stronger and let the CV's or U-joints go back to the one job of transferring torque.

Plus if you ever did loose a CV or Ujoint there would be less chance of damage.

Of course you would need (or at least want I would think to eliminate the chance of binding) plunging shaft with U-joints or plunging CV's but thats not hard to come up with.

the extra link isn't that heavy & probably the better way to go but when you add the hiems, jam nut, nuts and bolt, misalignment spacer and the extra parts for the plunging axles.  the non plunge drive shaft is considerably lighter than a plunging shaft about 30 percent heavier.

a fith link is easy to add, doesn't always mean less chance of damage though, that all depends on the owner/driver of the rail. any idiot can buy a rail with whatever rear end and beat and park it, but if all they do is walk by and look at it for maintenance than when it blows it will do a lot of damage!

yes I have met a few of these type of people!! they are part of the reason I am bald!

[LiveWire]

CVs cannot handle the side load that a U-Joint can. So it should not be used as a suspension member.

[Mongoose]

just a question, is that a 4 link rear end?

how much angle are you looking for?

what size motors are you running?

what size tires in the rear?

I have a lot of experience with 4 link rear ends!

got any closer shots of the axles?

how long are your current ones and what angle are they good for now?

1.) I've always thought of it as 5 link, the axle being the fifth.
2.) How much angle, hmmm not that much, the current unis can't handle much more than what the pic shows and we only have about 2 inch sag and 5 inches travel.
3.) This one has a Gixxer 750, but I do have the hots for a CBR1000RR.
4.) 26 inch x 12 Bearclaws
5.) No shots but I can get some.
6.) I will have to measure the axels and angles and get back to you on that. 

if you're interested the current unis are out of a Datsun 1600, Seventies Jap Shitbox but nice independent rear end.

There are 2 inch wheel spacers in the back there that I plan to remove and add the length to the axels.

Cheers,
Kev

P.S.  There's some video here of Saturday nights racing.  www.wasuperlites.com/video.html

[Mongoose]

So I've read a lot about unis on various sites and I've come to the conclusion that you can't buy something off the shelf, you have to clearance it to get the angle.

I talked to a fxxkstick from Hardy Spicer and he did come good with a flange yoke and weld yoke that would give me a static 25 degrees, however he also wants $ 120 a yoke and
$ 100 a joint, lets see that would be about $ 1200.00, surely he's dreaming. 

So I'm back here again, what I'm wanting is a part number or supplier or both for a reasonable priced yoke that I can clearance to give me 25 degrees and handle 200 hp.

Any guesses ? and no I'm not ever going to CV's, they suck  :P

Cheers,
Kev

[Boostinjdm]

no I'm not ever going to CV's, they suck  :P

Go find yourself a coffee can and every day stick a dollar in it.  A dollar a day is reasonable.















Three and a half years from now you can go buy your UJ's...