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UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Controls and Electrical => Topic started by: Jerry on January 22, 2009, 06:30:51 PM
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I was wiringup the brake lights and now the buggy will not start. I got the lights working and went to start it up and it clicked and lost all power. The fuel power does not power up when you connect to the battery ( i checked all the fuses they look good) i get a tiengle when my knee touches the frame (i am guessing short). So i disconnet the brake switch at the harness, and left the lights connected to the harness. I still get nothing.
I tried to power the fuel pump my running a wire from the battery to the + side and it would not start pumping. I am getting power to the speedo (it ligts up).
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Take a test light and stick it on the negative terminal of the battery, then touch the chassis/motor and see if it lights up...
Fuel pump only kicks on for about 5 seconds when you put power to the harness by flipping the switch or the key over, not just connecting the battery to the harness....
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The only time the lights is when on the + post and the other end on the frame. The fuel pump was always pumping up when then the battery is connected.
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bad connection or dead battery. check battery connections, engine ground, fuses again. how did you check the fuses?
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I will recheck those items. I checked the fuses my looking at them. The fuses for the harness are polaris and do not look like car fuses, I will try replacing them with car fuses. Is there a way to ck fuses
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Looking at them is about useless. You need to either check for continuity with a meter (best way). or use a test light. with the test light turn the ignition on and hook test light to a good ground. then touch the hot side of the fuse with the probe. If the light lights up you have power. then touch the other end of the fuse. if it still lights, fuse is good, if it doesn't light the fuse is bad. For this method you have to have power to the fuse in the first place. A meter with continuity is the best way. mine has a setting where it beeps if you have continuity and displays the resistance. It can also be used to check for voltage which will tell you if the battery is low or you have a questionable connection. I have a Craftsman meter that I like to use. I've had it about 10 yrs and I think it cost me $20 at the time. Now for about $40 you can get a good one, or if you have deep pockets, you could get a Fluke brand.
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I was able to pull a code there are 3 possiblites all pump relay (related): open load: short circut to ground; short circut to battery. Short circut to ground is the only one i know what it means. I check all the fuses with a continunity tester they are good, the wires coming from the harness to the relay i have no power at. The pump is good i fired it up with test leads.
I am at a loss as what to do next????
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do you have power to the switch? how did you hook the test leads to the pump? Maybe the pump ground is bad and thats why it isn't seen? Do you have power to anything? where do the battery cables go?
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did you check the plugs at the computer? maybe one got wiggled loose while you were working on it.
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what is this engine out of? maybe I can find a wiring diagram to help point you in the right direction.
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the wiring diagram is in the site diagram area it is the polaris 700 efi , i did not check any plugs. i have no idea how they any thing could come loose. i did not handle any of it.
Thank you for your help, wiring is somthing i am not good at (I am learning the hard way), typing is another
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Jerry, check them wires that we talked about previously, that ground wire etc, from the first day you got it going... does the battery have juice? if you had a live unfused short, the wiring would smoke and burn in a hurry....
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I hate spagetti....I spotted a fusible link near the starter relay on the diagram, I hate those. other than that, you just need to look real close at all connections, crimps, plugs, rings, to see if any came loose, it happens.... At least you have a code to go by, you could also start at the pump and trace back to where you have power. I don't know. This shit is a lot easier in person.
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Bug that was the first thing i cked, With those the fuel pump pumped the motor would not start. Now the fuel pump does not pump ( the pump works) I am not getting any power from the fuel pump wire on the harness to trip the relay too make the pump come on. I will check more in the morning
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Bug that was the first thing i cked, With those the fuel pump pumped the motor would not start. Now the fuel pump does not pump ( the pump works) I am not getting any power from the fuel pump wire on the harness to trip the relay too make the pump come on. I will check more in the morning
Knowing that, I would check the plug in the comp. and see if the comp. it's self is getting power.
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How do i ck the comp to see if it is getting power
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The pin out should show which wire gives it power. let me look.
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Jerry,
Lets do this? I see you are in Glendale?
I am no wiring guru, but if you disconnect that battery, so it no longer tingles, I will bring a few tools and a very small bit of knowledge, and see if we cant get somethings figured out? With some phone support from the smart guys, I think it might work?
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Way to lend a hand Yummi. In person is always best and a fresh set of eyes will spot things the first set missed. ;D
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That would be great Yummi my cell # 602 499 0864
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Hey Jerry,
Would tomorrow - Sunday say around 10:00a work for you? That might get us some time to line up the smart guys for phone consults?
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Hey, smart guys, time change to 1:30p Sunday AZ (Mountain Standard) can a couple of you be near a phone then? If so, PM Jerry or me.
Thanks in advance.
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Around here, I think you'll have to be more specific on what you think is smart... ;D. Maybe somebody familiar with that power plant?
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yes, that is a start.......
thanks for volunteering.
I think Bug also has some experience on this project - something to do with a ground wire? He should likely be the next to speak up?
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Yes I am in...
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Anybody want to school me on what a "load shed" does?
BTY, The thread below also refers to it as a "relay solid state" and I have seen it called a regulator / rectifier in some of the web pages I have searched. (It appears that may be incorrect from what I gather?)
Learn more here....
http://www.atvnation.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t9878.html (http://www.atvnation.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t9878.html)
So, in English por favor?
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Hi Yummi, Bugpac
I want to thank you again for helping yesterday.
I pulled the load shed off it is made by Minks Engineering out of Kissimmee ,FL there ph # is 407-847-8091. There are two numbers on the load shed they areon the left LR68 on the right 4011049. That is were in am going to call first to try and get one. Will let you Know
Hi Bugpac I need to thank you again for all your help and knowledge about this stuff I would be completely lost if it were no for this board and people like you and Yummi and all the other smart guys out there. THANK YOU
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No problem jerry, glad to help anytime, Actually the question we need answered from another forum member, what is modulated power? This is seperate from the regulator/rectifier yummi, you will see that else were in the diagram...
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Tried calling minks today about 30 times, all i got was a busy signal. Will try again tomorrow.
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I just saw on the bay a part that looked similar to the load shed they call it a regulator rectifier.
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Jerry, Look at the diagram, you will see the regulator, the load shed is different.. It is a module...
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Top left corner, to the right of the fuel pump...
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well, this at least helps us to understand what it does....
Glossary Term: Load Shed
Definition
Load shed, normally used in industrial, large commercial, and utility operations, is monitoring electric usage continuously (usually by automated instrumentation) and shutting down certain pre-arranged electric loads or devices if a certain upper threshold of electric usage is approached.
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Jerry,
In my search, i found this - might be wicked good for you to save a pdf copy to your pc?
http://www.worldofpowersports.com/oem/fiche/polaris/ATV-2004/Sportsman%20700%20Twin%20PARTS%20MANUAL%20PN%209918612.pdf (http://www.worldofpowersports.com/oem/fiche/polaris/ATV-2004/Sportsman%20700%20Twin%20PARTS%20MANUAL%20PN%209918612.pdf)
And, for all you other sled / polaris guys, might want to look here, for what appears to be every part polairs makes? http://parts.polarisind.com/Browse/Browse.asp
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Very nice Yummi... if that truely is what it does, Id be 99.9% certain it is the cure to the disease...
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Yummi THANK YOU that first one is awesome. I looked at both and neither one called anything a load shed ( i think they maybe calling it a resistor module). Engine model EH0680LE021 year 2004 no month.
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I did a search on the second one, it called it a, load shed/module... Looks like it is originally in the headlight assembly...
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Polaris : A04CH68AC SPORTSMAN 700 (2004)
Looks like part #8...
SKU: 4010970
MODULE-LOAD SHED,LR 64 (AT)(AV) 1 $49.48
www.Babbitsonline.com (http://www.Babbitsonline.com)
Looks like there is not one in the other number model 700, probbaly non efi model...
Polaris : A04CH68AK SPORTSMAN 700 (2004)
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Nice work Bugpac THANK YOU
I just di a search for the using the number off the lodshed 4010970 and found it under the haedlight assemble 2005 700efi A05mh68ac. So i am going to call today and see if someone can tell me what the wiring on that part looks like.
Thanks again Bugpac
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Minks phone is always busy.
I order the part today should be at the dealer in 5 to 7 days. I went dealer because i am not postive it is the right part. I can at least match it up at the dealer and not be out ay money, because if it is not the right one mail order companies told NO return on electric parts. So we wait.
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Minks phone is always busy.
I order the part today should be at the dealer in 5 to 7 days. I went dealer because i am not postive it is the right part. I can at least match it up at the dealer and not be out ay money, because if it is not the right one mail order companies told NO return on electric parts. So we wait.
Good idear, anxious to hear if that is indeed the cure... ;D
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if it is the cure, let me know when you are ready, we can wire up the rest so you are all set. from that block it is child's play.
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Thanks for your help and interest.
I posted on Highlander.com to see if i could find out how the oad shed is mounted.
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Got Bored so I went thur the manual and found this today. Can anyone tell from this if it gets bolted to the frame.
Bugpac / Yummi 10: does this help, do you still think i blow it up :) 10: 10:
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Where do you mount a christmas tree on a fourwheeler? lol ;D
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Lol, jerry i think you got the wrong pic... i dont know if it is isolated by direct chassis ground, as it has a ground wire going to it, I am still 99% confident the short indeed smoked it myself...
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The dog peeed on it?
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Sorry wrong pic b:1 :-%
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I found a guy on another site that said the load shed should be mount to the frame grounding it.
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I donbt see what it would hurt to have it mounted to the frame, I know it mounts in the headlight assembly on the quad, I assume it is not mounted to steel in there... ;D
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I went to get the load shed today ;D But it was wrong :-[ ordered and other one, it should be an other 4 days :-[ and this one was even more $ then the last one :-[
Back to work on head lights they are on a seperate fuse block so no need the worry about doing more damage
Yummi/Bugpac
I was looking at the basic wiring diagram Yummi posted it shows the head light switch coming from a 10 amp fuse to a relay to a 20 amp fuse to the lights. Is that so you do not need a 20 amp fuse.
I was going to wire my headlights (2 35 watt hids) from a 20 amp fuse, pigtail the wire to 2 seperate switches then one switch to each light so i can use one at a time if i wish? I do not see the need foer the relay.
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you do not need a relay if the switch itself is capable of the amp draw... ;D
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Got the new load shed.. Wire the battery up with the new one in place and got the tingle on my leg again. The fuel pump did not turn on like it always did before the problem. Put the old shed back on and ran codes again and got the 56 the fuel stuff again.
Now what..
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tingle like a shock?
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Yes, When i put a test light on the - post of the battery and touch the frame with the other end i get no light
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a test light isn't going to be sensitive enought to track that down. Is the engine runing when you get the tingle?
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Got the new load shed.. Wire the battery up with the new one in place and got the tingle on my leg again. The fuel pump did not turn on like it always did before the problem. Put the old shed back on and ran codes again and got the 56 the fuel stuff again.
Now what..
Is it grounded?
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no the engine is not running that is the problem
no i did not ground the shed it was not grounded when i had it running
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my experience is that only extremely high voltage or AC voltage will cause a tingle. if the engine is not running, that should rule out AC voltage. So only high voltage is left. I would look at the ignition coils to see if they are damaged. I could be wrong though. At this point it's more of a guess than anything....
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there is power in the fuse panel to the load shed, there is no power out of the load shed feeding the fuel pump....Made me think the load shed fried...
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I only get a tingle with the new shed grounded or un grounded.
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somewere in the wire harnes the wires got to be burnt and shorting, Pull every single piece of wire loom off and start looking, may be in that plug, IMO first thing id do is get rid off that...
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I am with you Bugpac, i am thinking the plug most go ( or just part of it).. Because Yummi got some action when he wiggled it. Andnothing else changed, and it ran up to the point the i messed with the tail lights. I put that all back the way it was. The brake lights are working now but they are run completely off the other fuse block. I hope (but do not think i will) to get some time this week end the kids have sports this weekend.
The code 56 is a code for the fuel pump( ground, short, what ever). The first thing i am going to try is the connecting all those wires to that plug that are related to the fuel pump. That may do the trick
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Hey Boostinjdm, if it were a bad coil would it not show when i ran the codes
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???
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If i leave the battery connected and the new load shed connected ( i get the tingle) do i run the risk of demageing the new load shed???
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If i leave the battery connected and the new load shed connected ( i get the tingle) do i run the risk of demageing the new load shed???
No, unhook the battery and find the bad wire... ;D
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Bugpac and Yummi, The two smart guys. Once again Bugpac you were right it was the plug (one of the wires coming out was not completly connected), and Yummi you were right on which wires it was in the plug, ( the red and blacks). That is were i started. I connected up three wire from one side of the plug together and ran a 14 gauage wire to the three wires from the other side of the plug. Then i crossed my fingers preyed and hooked up the battery and the motor came to life again ;D ;D ;D
Now i need to sodier up the wires i just did and the relays.
Now the key switch.