MC power vs Automotive power

[Engineer]

My only objection to the plan is that busa coupler thing - ok, I am just givin you crap - you are a smart dude, you will figure it out.


But, just a question.  When I got my car, I really thought long and hard about a Busa, still like them, etc, but at what point do you say - hey I have a 091, why not just stick in a 2.0 or 2.5 with turbo or two?  At a certain point, this is all "power to weight" and if you can get that at 2.0 liters without the coupler issues, etc, why fight convention?   

This is likly going to spark a debate - yes gentlemen, a debate, not a brawl please....? 

I have had the same thoughts.  It would be interesting to see how all the combinations work out, mc power, mc power with fnr, mc power with full box, 2.5 with box etc.  I believe a 2.5 turbo motor and a hayabusa with turbo would be close to equivalent in cost.  So if your putting a full tranny behind it, whats the difference?  Gas mileage?

I think Fabr's setup will be sweet when he's done, but for myself, I am leaning towards a less expensive powerplant, like R-1 that makes slightly less power, forget the fnr, so I have less weight to make up for decreased horsepower, and can get back on the budget that inspired the mc powerplant buggy to begin with.

[Admin]

Busas are so dominant because they make there torque at high rpms, Thus taking advantage of the speed...If the busa made its power at 5500 rpms, it would be nothing more than any other engine on the market, same for all sport bike engines really, and there lightweight helps of course...

[Engineer]

[plkracer]

Just to add a bit, an 02 750 gixxer is around 800-1000 for everything needed, assuming the engine has low miles. I bought mine a few years ago and the price is still pretty much the same.

The hayabusa also has a lot of support for it, and a bunch of upgrades.

[Admin]

about 1500 -1800 for a gixer 1k, the oem numbers are very close to a busas oem numbers as well...

[fabr]

Busas are popular because they are potent powerplants stock and they lend themselves to turboing easily. The torque comes in pretty early and is a broad flat torque curve that is very desirable. If you take the rpm as shown on the dyno chart of this '8 busa at 7#'s and divide them by the busa internal primary reduction of 1.596 you can see that the rpms are quite similar to an automotive engine but at a much reduced weight.

[Yummi]

Somebody needs to make a post that compares all the common bike motors vs their avg price and HP.   Hp/dollar.

I would like that as well - trouble is dollar spent is a lot like gas mileage and penis size - when you gonna get a straight answer? 

So, here is my suggestion - find a price on the web of a guy that will sell it with an advertised hp?  Something anybody could buy?  We could then start a spreadsheet.  Now, lets just go with "advertised price."  And, lets stick to guys that have good names - ie builders whom we would actually buy from? 

Outfront is my choice on Subaru - Get JDM motors alot cheaper on Ebay or others, between 1 and 1.5 k for 2.0l twin turbo.  Still need ecu, harness, etc - so add money to that.  And as always, build it yourself - save money, but this is complete, ready to install into buggy price......


From Out front.....

2.0L JDM motors offer great value for lighter cars under 1300lbs.  Ideal for 2 seat sandrails or 4 seat desert cars, a 2.0L Subaru motor can put out over 200HP on a low budget.

This setup is perfect for the person that wants to get away from older VW aircooled pushrod technology.  These 4 valve per cylinder motors have over head cams and fuel injection for efficiency with an awesome power to weight ratio.  The biggest advantage of Subaru motors over VW technology is the reliability.  The fuel economy of fuel injection is about 30% better than carburetors, not to mention alleviating the hassle of clogged jets in those Weber carburetors.  Say good-bye to valve adjustments on your VW when you move up to Subaru SOHC or DOHC setups.

2.0L Turbo, 220HP, pump gas, $6000

Turn-Key Motor includes adapter kit with flywheel, jet coated exhaust, stock IHI turbo, tail pipe, air filter, fuel pump, modified throttle body, modified water crossover, polished intake manifold, engine management computer with harness and relays, modified oil pan, and stainless water and oil lines to turbo.  Does not include clutch, pressure plate, fuel filters, or Outwear.

2.0L Turbo, 220HP, pump gas, chrome and polish as shown above $6500

Same as above plus chrome alternator, detailed turbo (polish, painted, jetcoated), jetcoated air inlet flange, chrome J-tube, chrome valve covers, polished throttle body, polished water crossover, 

The 2.5 is more - depends on power range:  Weighs about 300 #'s. 
JDM long block replacement motors cost $1000 to $2000 depending on the condition of the motor.

reworked / "preped" by outback is more but it comes ready to drop into buggy -

250 to 325HP without race pistons or rods.  $7000 to $9500, depending on HP, chrome, polish and setup.
400HP starting at $13,000
500HP starting at $16,000

We need a chart that includes weight numbers, etc? 

Just a thought. 

Somebody wanna do some research on a eco tech, vw or busa? - I guess we could also discuss V8's as this fourm is for both MC and AP cars?  Course then we need to agree on cost of FNR, and Trans.  091 for up to 300 with good stuff - 2.5k?   FNR for busa 3k?  Above 300 hp - Mendeola?  12k?   See this is where it all get kind of tricky. 

Assuming ebay buys on the motor, then 2.0l and 1000 bike appears about the same with a slight nod to the 2.0l  - harness, (300) ecu (400) and adapter plate (400) likely make them the same??? - but what is "true cost?"  with fnr, or 091, all that added up? 

BTY,  my penis is freaking, unbeleivblely, just stupendiously, - mine.  And I get great fuel mileage...

[plkracer]

LOL, you had to comment at the end! I need to talk to you sometime about subie engines. You know your stuff!

[Yummi]

No no no, I am "learning my stuff."  I KNEW in my 20's.  In my 40's the only thing I have LEARNED is that there are smarter folks than me on this stuff.  And it's cheaper to ask / pay for that knowledge than to do it wrong.  That's why a board like DTS is a good thing. 

But, as always I am glad to help in any way I can.

(BTY - good call on spliting the thread)

[fabr]

THANX.

[plkracer]

BTW, what does bty stand for??

[Yummi]

BTY = me not having my second cup of coffee.  Should have been btw. 

[Yummi]

I need work to pick up - too much time - So, I figured I would do some looking for a VW,  wow- prices all over the place...

From the web (Samba Ad) No idea on power - your guess is as good as mine?

**********

VW ENGINE. 1915cc Turnkey Motor   Price: $2798.
VW ENGINE "WARRIOR.50" BIG BORE TURNKEY MOTOR!
Perfect for BUG.GHIA.BUS.THING.TRIKES.BUGGIES.RAILS.RESTORATIONS!
(Bus and Van ..'68-'71 and Thing ..
'73-'74 ..Add $30. for rear-mount case)

**Product # 1550
Bore: 94mm .. Stroke: 69mm .. Size: 1915cc
**For VW Air-Cooled Applications.

**********

Also found this:
They look to be turn key performance oriented motors. 

*****

http://www.jcsvwparts.com/turnkey%20files/html%20files/tk_page_02.htm

                 

DESCRIPTION
1600cc   $2499.00    
1641cc    $2599.00    
1776cc    $3249.00    
1835cc    $3249.00    
1914cc    $3249.00    
2110cc    $3749.00    
2180cc    $3849.00    
2275cc    $3949.00

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Any body wanna help on the cost of a BuouououououssssAAAAAAA!!!!?

[Admin]

Depends on were your buying them, there is a 08 busa local to me at the INS auction, that i am betting will be had for 2-2500 bux, someone buys it pulls the engine and your likely looking at 3500-4k just for the motor, BTW it has less than 300 miles on it, 2 yrs ago i would have just got my stash out of my wallet and bought it to resell, Not this yr...

[artie on edge]

Laughing at that one Bug, Not This Year, baby, you aint on your own! Wasnt for world economic FuXX up Id have mine by now as well!!!!!!

As it is I will use next years comp as a social race year as I wont make it to teh first couple of events...