DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Machinery, Trailers, Toyhaulers and Motorhomes => Machinery Builds => Topic started by: Maurice on December 28, 2009, 06:55:47 PM
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I met Spec on another board, he thought this might be interesting here.
I aquired 3 Dodge trucks, all three have a NP435 transmission, 2 have slant 6's (one runs) and 2 are 4x4. I made up an adapter to mate the output of one tranny to the input of the next, and here's where I was in June:
(https://dtsfab.com/index/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2501.0;attach=17304;image)
Lets see if I can post this...
edit: that picture is supposed to be above, I got something wrong.
Edit: I added your picture. You can hit modify and see what I did. I just copied the image location that you added as an attachment in between the image brackets. It is a two step process, first attach the picture, then right click on it and hit "copy shortcut", then modify the post and paste the shortcut in between the image brackets. Or you can start an album and attach them there then just add the image into the post. - Engineer
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Welcome. :) This IS DesertTrailSandfab. ;D I'm sure it fits in there somewhere! ;D ;D Post up a closer pic of that adapter and tell us more! 8)
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Yup Maurice is a friend of mine from another site
We are an off road building site
and I think we can all learn from eachother....
after all the less time we spend doing chores...the more buggy time we have ;D
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How do I post a pic in the body of my post?
I then made a bracket to support the flange bearing. I'm looking for my file of pics.
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How do I post a pic in the body of my post?
I then made a bracket to support the flange bearing. I'm looking for my file of pics.
Hell if I know! rofl
Well cool! So simple it hurts. ;D ;D I like it! 8)
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I'll ask Yummi or Dragon I always just add them at the end :-[
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What's the end purpose of this creation?
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Yup Maurice is a friend of mine from another site
We are an off road building site
and I think we can all learn from eachother....
after all the less time we spend doing chores...the more buggy time we have ;D
And what is the forum? Just wondering what creations they come up with, thats all
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The other forum is www.machinebuilders.net They are having server problems or something for about a year. We can still get on, but pages sometimes won't load, and pictures won't load. Great group of guys and gals, tho.
The purpose of my machine is to replace a tractor. I plan to mount a 6' mower on front using a modified lift. Also plan to put something like a FEL(front end loader) on the back to lift 1500# hay bales. The counter-balance of the motor+double trannys ought to be awesome.
Here is where I'm at now:
(https://dtsfab.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi228.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee203%2Fmauricerichter%2FDSCN8855-2.jpg&hash=41aa3a64dc9c8ee429bae01ee825bddbb309435d)
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Well hell,invite them here. We'll give them their own section if we get enough of you here regularly.
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This frame had been sitting for about a decade, the brake lines were rotted. I got the rear brakes working (replacing all the lines from master cyl to both rear wheel cyl). But for the time being, I'm putting the front disc brakes on hold 'cause I can't get the caliper bleeders loose. The seat is temporary until I can find a bench - hoping for future grandkids who can ride this with me.
With double trannys, I can go very slow or at original speeds of the truck (not that it is safe to do...) I suppose that might be helpful for some of you running on trails? The gearing multiplies torque, but ya'll probably know that, I haven't hade time to read the whole site! The low gearing also seems useful on sites about "rock-crawling".
Wanting to power the mower with hydraulics, probably about 30GPM, which is about 30HP. So I'm looking at ideas to power a hydraulic pump. Either powered by belt or chain from the front crankshaft, by an add-on pto box at the transmission, or by a separate engine.
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IMO the PTO option with those trannies are the way to go.They do have a PTO "port" on them don't they?
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Oh ,I was wondering about that seat thing! ;D ;D
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Yes, mine have a pto port on the left sides. I've been looking for one. I'm finding that pto's can have a hydraulic pump flange, or a shaft that can run a driveshaft (like for a winch.) I could make either one work. But it's difficult finding one on ebay or craigslist to match the gears in a NP435. One down side of a pto-driven pump is that the pump stops when I clutch the engine, such as when mowing.
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Yes, mine have a pto port on the left sides. I've been looking for one. I'm finding that pto's can have a hydraulic pump flange, or a shaft that can run a driveshaft (like for a winch.) I could make either one work. But it's difficult finding one on ebay or craigslist to match the gears in a NP435. One down side of a pto-driven pump is that the pump stops when I clutch the engine, such as when mowing.
Good point. What real choice is there though for 30 GPM? Ain't getting that from an electric pump. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to run it off the engine but you'll have a pretty inconsistent flow and pressure with the throttle use.
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Hell ya got 3 trucks. Mount an extra engine and dedicate it to the pump.
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Only you Fabr ;D
There is always the e-enguagement pump
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hehehheeeee!
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I might have a tranny mount pump if you're interested. No idea what it fits or what it's worth, but everytime I mention hydraulics around one of my customers, he tries to sell me his pump.
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looks interesting Maurice! So how slow will it go? ;D Have you driven it yet to see how the ratios work out?
If you put both tranny's in reverse does it go forward? Actually you probably wouldn't want to ever put the front tranny in reverse because the rear tranny isn't designed for reverse direction input? Or does it even matter?
You can upload photos to a DTS album and post them from there just like from photobucket, or upload them right to the post. I actually like to use the DTS album then if photobucket changes something it doesn't leave broken links in the posts.
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Boostinjdn, I'm interested, I think I see an email link - I'll try after I post this.
Engineer, How slow? On paper I've calculated with 2 trannys and transfer case, I can go 183:1 in forward, and 144:1 in reverse. As I understand it does not matter if a tranny input is forward or reverse. Altho' I have been warned that I may not want to use double reverse. Yes, double reverse is forward. The way it was explained to me is that as the gearing slows down the speed, the torque multiplies. The torque could be enough to break the reverse gear out of the tranny casting. I wondered that if the wheels slip wouldn't the drive train be safe? But was told even if wheels spin it could still damage something.
Yes I have driven it! Feels fun, tho' I'm still working thru some stuff. For instance I found I did not make it easy to reach the front shifter while pushing the clutch! And when the front tranny is in 1, 2, or 3, then reverse gear from the 2nd tranny is verrrry slow! slow is good if I'm wanting to be careful, but what if I'm wanting speed and fun? ;D
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For a hydraulic pump for the mower, would a second-hand truck (big rig) power steering pump put out enough flow? Belt driven off the front of the motor, clutching wouldn't kill your hydraulics.
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I have to take some stuff to the guy tommarrow. Maybe I can pick up the pump and get some numbers off of it. It's in one of his out buildings and might be snowed in. I'll find out tommarrow.
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Boostinjdm, getting some numbers might help me figure if it might work. Not all tranny gears are the same, as I'm finding out.
Chrishallet83, I don't know anything about big rigs. Any idea what pressure and flow they have? Average cars/trucks are about 500psi, and low flow. Some have used power steering pumps to power small projects.
What I'm learning about hydraulics is that about 1 gpm x 1500psi = 1 HP. The mower mfr says it needs 25HP at the mower deck to cut properly. It costs some mechanical efficiency to convert engine power to hydraulics, about 15%.
As you can see from Spec's pictures and posts, he knows more about hydraulics than I! I've only built a small backhoe and this trucktor is my 2nd hydraulic project!
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A really good place to get all the Hydraulic info you will ever need is here...
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/home.php (http://www.baumhydraulics.com/home.php)
They have all the calculators
and lots of cool shit too
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I was thinking about your shifter problem M.
I can prolly bend you up one to reach back to where you need it to be
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I was just thinking.....
YEAH IT HURT REALLY BAD
I have an engine driven pump i was going to use on the dump truck...
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I was thinking about your shifter problem M.
I can prolly bend you up one to reach back to where you need it to be
I was thinking along those lines too. There's so much still to do on it, the shifter is a bit lower on the list. In fact as I was driving it today, the power steering hose blew! rofl
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Just a suggestion. Or maybe just a thought really. If you could score a pair of high fear ring and pinions you could benefit from the much larger diameter/stronger pinion . With that much gear reduction I'd thinkk beefing up anything you can in the driveline would be good.
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Upgrading the size of the uj's too???? Maybe?
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Now don't be steering M in the wrong direction Fabr....
What he's got is plenty heavy for what he's doing...and going to do with it :-*
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Let me think about this.183:1 . Say conservatively the slant six makes 100 ft.lb.torque. That;s 18,399 ft lb input into the rear uj. Steering him wrong? I think not.
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Might want an upgrade on the rear drive shaft too.
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Let me think about this.183:1 . Say conservatively the slant six makes 100 ft.lb.torque. That;s 18,399 ft lb input into the rear uj. Steering him wrong? I think not.
Thank you for putting this in perspective! I had not thought of it in this way. If I can get some tire traction, it might break something...
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Yes traction will be the thing that ultimately will determine whether the driveline is stout enough.
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I would recommend keeping the front tranny in 3rd or 4th unless absolutely necessary. It is the same concept as the Busa driving into a VW tranny. If you gear down the front tranny then the second tranny sees very high torque numbers. However if you keep the front tranny in high then the the second tranny can only see normal torque loads.
I agree that limited traction will probably prevent most breakage, until he picks up a big round bale. ;D
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LOL!!! Yeah one of the big round ones will add a bit of grip all righty!
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:-[
I didn't realize it was a half ton drivetrain :P
I'm just going to toss this out there...
If you went to joy stick steering with swiveling seat you could mount a decent loader on the back for haybales and run a belly mower off the crankshaft pulleys that way you wouldn't be quite so long and the belt and big pump problem would be solved ;D