DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Motor and Drivetrain => Topic started by: dsrace on February 24, 2009, 09:23:47 PM
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got any members with some sand experience running the 3800 series II v-6's?
I have a few questions on the rev limits and stock valve springs and cams? my motor's rev limiter is factory set at 6350 rpm , I and dunebound 69 checked it with his scanner sat night.
I find myself striking the rev limiter a lot!!!! I am having a hard time being reduced to 6350 rpm after all the sport bike power plants I have run. I was wondering if anyone has taken the rev limiter up to 7k or even 7400 on the stock motors with out floating valves or dropping them? I have posted some q's on a 3800 site and have received some great info and advise but I think the pcm's might be tuned a little different and they just don't understand sand! popular opinion over there is that my rev limiter shouldn't be that high factory, my cam isn't making power over 5k -5500 rpm and I am probably floating valves but just can't hear it over my exhaust. my motor isn't floating valves I would feel it even if I didn't hear it over my exhaust even though it is not that loud, but my motor is still pulling hard at the rev limiter, I know some one has tried this somewhere. I like my gearing the way it is in the transaxle but I would like a little more time between gears, not really looking to make more power which equals more money in the transaxle or even a mendi.
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If its revving out to quick you might need less deep gearing. The VW styles are known for being notoriously weak with the SUPER deep gear ratios on the ring and pinion as the pinion gear is so small to get there. (yours may not be this case.) So the ring and pinion may get a little stronger with the lower ratio but of course its harder on the other gears.
Also a tach with a shift light might help you to shift a tad quicker.
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Who's the goofy lookin'fook in the pic? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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BTW,where is that pic from?
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DS
Have you talked to Maurice? This guy Knows 3800's. Runs one in his car. Worked for GM for years on them. He work's 3rd shift now so don't call before about 5:00PM.
Maurice Baker
Alma. KS 66401
785-765-3811
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DS
Have you talked to Maurice? This guy Knows 3800's. Runs one in his car. Worked for GM for years on them. He work's 3rd shift now so don't call before about 5:00PM.
Maurice Baker
Alma. KS 66401
785-765-3811
I don't care what the others say ( lol ;D ), you are the man!!!! thanks for the info I will give him a call tonight.
I like you motto at the bottom, I would like to add that when someone tells me it can't be done that's when I know it can be done!
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BTW,where is that pic from?
oct 17th or 18th '08 about 4 dunes back from butter cup.
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Who's the goofy lookin'fook in the pic? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
my evil twin brother DS-2!
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If its revving out to quick you might need less deep gearing. The VW styles are known for being notoriously weak with the SUPER deep gear ratios on the ring and pinion as the pinion gear is so small to get there. (yours may not be this case.) So the ring and pinion may get a little stronger with the lower ratio but of course its harder on the other gears.
Also a tach with a shift light might help you to shift a tad quicker.
nutz4sand I like that name, reminds me of a joke I'm dating a midget cause I am nutz over her!!! ;D ;D ;D
thanksfor the info.
my transaxle has an 4.57 r&p and 1st is a tad higher than stock but all my gears are weddle. I have thought about a shift light but so far my rev limiter doubles for that ;) ;D I do need a shift light where I can see it, I get so focused on the road ahead I start to get tunnel vision and don't see my guages, just something I am going to have to shake because slowing down is so hard to do!
the cure all is to just sell this one and build another mini if I can't get just a little more rpm's.
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Push Fabr to get his done and test it out. If it proves worthy you can have him help you get one and swap out the motor out of yours for a Hayabusa then rev away!
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Push Fabr to get his done and test it out. If it proves worthy you can have him help you get one and swap out the motor out of yours for a Hayabusa then rev away!
I would have to build a whole new chassis but that's no problem. as far as pushing fabr you need to tell his wife that! I like the busa but the zx10r rev's to 13k, more fun but less tq, same hp and 78lbs lighter.
I am running 1300 paddles also, I know that wheel slip is extreme and a set of 1450's would help but I would also like to get a little higher rev if I could but safely, I don't care about blowing a motor as long as it is here at home. 2 hrs to change and $300 -400 to replace from the salvage yards. might be fun to shut the rev limiter off and see how high it will go before it blows short of the oil mess it'll make!
If I do decide to rev it till it blows I will have to give fastcorvairs a shout in case he would like to help. I'm only 15 miles north of lincoln neb.
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You decide to blow it I want to be there!! 6350 in your garage is f@#$ing loud. :)
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Push Fabr to get his done and test it out. If it proves worthy you can have him help you get one and swap out the motor out of yours for a Hayabusa then rev away!
Things are speeding up.Just not fast enough.
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oct 17th or 18th '08 about 4 dunes back from butter cup.
LS Buttercup? I guess I need to stop and look around a bit more instead of just riding like a bat out of hell..I never noticed it look like that before.
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LS Buttercup? I guess I need to stop and look around a bit more instead of just riding like a bat out of hell..I never noticed it look like that before.
I think its a good thing Fabr has a GPS......
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You decide to blow it I want to be there!! 6350 in your garage is f@#$ing loud. :)
ok now I know it's just me! I wondered why you jumped back from the motor, I thought some hot exhaust hit your leg. it really sounds wound up that tight to you? seriously, it sounds only 2/3rds of the way there to ear!
I guess to many years of sport & dirt bikes have ruined my ears!
fastcorvairs, thanks for the name and # he has some great info! we discussed the olds 3.5 aluminum v-6's, he told me that they are lighter with a little less bottom end tq on the start but wake up quick as well as they rev higher. he does know the motors!!!!
if anyone is thinking about building a v-6 I would call maurice for the motor and flywheel- adaptor plate. Maurice Baker - Alma. KS - 785-765-3811
bottom line on my rev question is I can change springs which I am going to do and set the rev limit a touch higher, but I also need to grab the next gear sooner and lug that motor more. if that doesn't work than I will be selling it and going back to what I know best!
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LS Buttercup? I guess I need to stop and look around a bit more instead of just riding like a bat out of hell..I never noticed it look like that before.
yes LS.
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ok now I know it's just me! I wondered why you jumped back from the motor, I thought some hot exhaust hit your leg. it really sounds wound up that tight to you? seriously, it sounds only 2/3rds of the way there to ear!
I guess to many years of sport & dirt bikes have ruined my ears!
fastcorvairs, thanks for the name and # he has some great info! we discussed the olds 3.5 aluminum v-6's, he told me that they are lighter with a little less bottom end tq on the start but wake up quick as well as they rev higher. he does know the motors!!!!
if anyone is thinking about building a v-6 I would call maurice for the motor and flywheel- adaptor plate. Maurice Baker - Alma. KS - 785-765-3811
bottom line on my rev question is I can change springs which I am going to do and set the rev limit a touch higher, but I also need to grab the next gear sooner and lug that motor more. if that doesn't work than I will be selling it and going back to what I know best!
Change springs??????????? in what???????????
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Change springs??????????? in what???????????
Valve Springs I believe......
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Piston return springs!
(The things that push the pistons back down the bores! :P)
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Change springs??????????? in what???????????
Corvairs use valve springs right? For a moment I thought maybe you were a Mazda rotary guy, and didn't know what a valve spring was. then I looked at your name! ;D ;D ;D
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:D :D :D
Ok.
No one said anything about VALVE springs. the thread was (change springs)
If Maurice said you can change VALVE springs then do so. I would think that any newer v6 would have a thousand or so extra rpm before you would need to change them. How did he say you could bump up the rev limiter? That would be in brain box.
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:D :D :D
Ok.
No one said anything about VALVE springs. the thread was (change springs)
If Maurice said you can change VALVE springs then do so. I would think that any newer v6 would have a thousand or so extra rpm before you would need to change them. How did he say you could bump up the rev limiter? That would be in brain box.
yes, I was referring to valve springs. I should have typed that one out. he simply said that if I want to continue running the higher rpm's then he agreed that I will need to get some stronger valve springs. I was told by a few of the hp tuner guys that #105's should do it but #130 would be their preference, but then I would need 2 row timing chain and gears and probably stronger push rods, so I am going to go with the #105's. I guess the saying is 10 psi per thousand rpm, my gauge reads about 74 psi rev'd up so I believe I'm good there. he also told me he doesn't run the 3.8 anymore rather the olds 3.5. I don't know about down there but up here those motors are 800 -1k at the salvage yards, I asked the owner of one ( that I know and used to be into the buggies long ago ) today, he told me ( in the cars ) after they get a number of miles on them they drop there bottom ends. no he didn't elaborate on that but if maurice has had great luck with them then I would believe him. I kind of look at it this way, if I can push the motor up from 6350 rpm to 6800 and get 3 years out of it then throw another motor in for $300, that's only $100 a year for motor rental!! ;D
the only way to change the rev limit is in the pcm and the local guys want $150. I could ship back to the guys that flashed the pcm for me in new york but I talked to a shop that sells the software and harness to plug into a laptop for $300, to do this myself so I might just buy there's so I can play around with it a little. I did give maurice the web address of the company that flashed my pcm, he sounded interested in trying them out. what he did tell me is basically what I have thought all along, if the valves aren't floating and I'm still pulling hard or good to the rev limiter than try turning it up a little. he hasn't ever tried this himself so he couldn't say for sure and he didn't know if the bottom end would take what I would like to turn it up to 7400 rpm! I do know that most of this issue is me, I am no longer wired for the slower motors ( low rpm ) but I am going to work with this one to see if I can find a happy medium, I don't give up with out a fight and I have put a lot more work into this rail than the mini's.
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Piston return springs!
(The things that push the pistons back down the bores! :P)
can you post a pic of one of those. ;D ;D
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I hope you and enemy get the wicks turned up in time for LS!!! I'm kind of used to 900HP in a 1300# dragster sooooo you'd better!
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If you guys don't put a wraparound grin on my face you're in trouble. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I hope you and enemy get the wicks turned up in time for LS!!! I'm kind of used to 900HP in a 1300# dragster sooooo you'd better!
Whos the crazy fugger on this board??!!
YOU
Sounds like fun though! ;D
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Ain't nothing like it I will say.But I have to pass this along from Don Garlits.When he quit drag racing he went to Bonneville to try his luck or just to have fun.Whatever. Anyway he was tooling along in the 300 MPH range and when done his comment was,and I have to paraphrase it, "I never knew what 300 was like when drag racing.You are at speed for such a short time you really never have a chance to enjoy it". Any wonder why I haven't been to the track for 4 years?
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If you guys don't put a wraparound grin on my face you're in trouble. ;D ;D ;D ;D
vertical or horizontal? :o ;) ;D
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Both and diagonal as well!
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Both and diagonal as well!
lol!