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Automotive Powered Off Road (AKA: Buggys, Jeeps, Trucks, Etc,Etc. ) => Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: dsrace on June 23, 2018, 09:54:03 AM

Title: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 23, 2018, 09:54:03 AM
i have always liked this particular mose built chassis look. thoughts? i would design and build an a arm rear end of course.


(https://s15.postimg.cc/h07hskf6v/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h07hskf6v/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/qkr4fgc8n/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/qkr4fgc8n/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/hcyvyrcw7/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/hcyvyrcw7/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/dtcy8z51j/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/dtcy8z51j/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/yq96dmnmv/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/yq96dmnmv/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/l9c7ur5lj/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/l9c7ur5lj/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/4lkps9q9j/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/4lkps9q9j/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/7sf9bwq53/image.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/7sf9bwq53/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/k721c8pd3/mose_built.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/k721c8pd3/)
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 23, 2018, 09:57:28 AM
at some point i am going to build one more. so just throwing ideas out  :D ;)
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 23, 2018, 12:20:23 PM
I like it as well. Mose built many cars that I like but I guess he just went off the deep end at some point. Anyway....... yes I think that chassis was ahead of it's time and you could/would be able to build a very nice car based off the design. If I were to build another car with a arms , I would design it with bushing pivots at the frame and heims at the outer ends.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 23, 2018, 04:21:22 PM
like these? http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/9.9482 bought these some time back and never used them. i have 4 boxes so 8 bushing pairs.
(https://s15.postimg.cc/5d5grmhsn/IMG_20180623_171358.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/5d5grmhsn/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/iu2fahkef/IMG_20180623_171503.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/iu2fahkef/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/o5hbv6jbr/IMG_20180623_171512.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/o5hbv6jbr/)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/faghklhnr/IMG_20180623_171519.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/faghklhnr/)
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 23, 2018, 05:27:13 PM
Pretty much.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fastcorvairs on June 24, 2018, 05:10:51 AM
You think that the small square slots in the bushing material are for grease retention? If so I would not use grease on a plastic bushing. Grease gets in the pores of the plastic and plug's up the lubertisidy of the material.     
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 08:51:19 AM
well i believed they were for grease. i did not plan on putting regular grease in there i actually planned on putting chain lube made for sand applications in there. i use to build front ends with bushings on the lower a arms and that the lube i used on them when i assembled them. they did not have groves cut across them like these. these are quite a bit thicker and wider than the ones i used on the front ends. i actually bought these to try on my front end 10 or so years ago but never did as i just put heims on it. any time we can delete a heim and go to a bushing it sure quiets down one area.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 09:14:09 AM
Brian,what material are those bushings made from?
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
Never mind,I just need to open my eyes. LOL!! They are made from polyurethane and unless they are lubed,they will squeak like a mofo and wear out. If they were made from delrin/nylatron/something similar I would definitely agree with fast. I would hesitate to use PU for our application.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 09:30:36 AM
Never mind,I just need to open my eyes. LOL!! They are made from polyurethane and unless they are lubed,they will squeak like a mofo and wear out. If they were made from delrin/nylatron/something similar I would definitely agree with fast. I would hesitate to use PU for our application.

so you don't think poly would last?
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 09:35:27 AM
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Replacement-Nylon-Shackle-Bushings-1-3-4-Inch-Spring,35665.html   ;D ;D
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 10:07:27 AM
https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=saco94-3022&Category_Code=beetle-trailing-arms-fabrication

https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=sleeveouter-03&Category_Code=beetle-trailing-arms-fabrication
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 10:24:45 AM
fast you must have king kong spindles if yours are larger than combo and smaller than 2" hollow.

king  kong spindle Inner Bearing Spindle Diameter: 38mm
Outer Bearing Spindle Diameter: 30mm

combo link  Inner Bearing Spindle Diameter: 32mm
Outer Bearing Spindle Diameter: 25.5mm
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: DeepBusch69 on June 24, 2018, 10:57:21 AM
This grease is made for poly bushings, very tacky and will last a long time

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/9.11104

Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 11:40:07 AM
Never mind,I just need to open my eyes. LOL!! They are made from polyurethane and unless they are lubed,they will squeak like a mofo and wear out. If they were made from delrin/nylatron/something similar I would definitely agree with fast. I would hesitate to use PU for our application.

so you don't think poly would last?
Nope. Delrin would be my choice
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 11:42:39 AM
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Replacement-Nylon-Shackle-Bushings-1-3-4-Inch-Spring,35665.html   ;D ;D
Nope.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 11:45:37 AM
https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=saco94-3022&Category_Code=beetle-trailing-arms-fabrication   

https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=sleeveouter-03&Category_Code=beetle-trailing-arms-fabrication
Nope as well.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 11:51:03 AM
Brian,my perspective on this is that all of the bushings you link to are all of a PU material. None of them are/were ever intended to endure the range of motion any of our cars have. PU is not a suitable bearing material for our applications. Delrin holds up quite well for our application. Other materials like graphite impregnated nylon are also suitable. Delrin is easier to machine in general,is fairly inexpensive and has proven to work well in our off road application with no lube needed or even desirable.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 11:55:11 AM
This grease is made for poly bushings, very tacky and will last a long time

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/9.11104
It is also a sand/dirt/grit magnet and in our application will be a detriment due to the wear that will occur from all the sand/dirt/grit. IMO,there is no way PU bushings are suitable or desirable over other alternatives that suit our needs better.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 11:56:29 AM
Brian,my perspective on this is that all of the bushings you link to are all of a PU material. None of them are/were ever intended to endure the range of motion any of our cars have. PU is not a suitable bearing material for our applications. Delrin holds up quite well for our application. Other materials like graphite impregnated nylon are also suitable. Delrin is easier to machine in general,is fairly inexpensive and has proven to work well in our off road application with no lube needed or even desirable.

the 2 i linked from pacific are delrin bushings.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 11:57:08 AM
https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=saco94-3022&Category_Code=beetle-trailing-arms-fabrication   

https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PC&Product_Code=sleeveouter-03&Category_Code=beetle-trailing-arms-fabrication
Nope as well.

this bushing set is delrin
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 11:58:27 AM
and i can buy the tube and bolt from them to make it easier.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 12:03:37 PM
Consider it this way,do dirt bike guys use oil on their chains anymore? Nope. Why? The oil/wet lube of any kind attract and hold abrasive material and just wear out the chain. Today most dirt riders use dry lubes of some kind to acoid that. We,if using materials like delrin or graphite impreg nylon ,can avoid contaminate attracting/holding lubes. To me,that is the goal.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 12:08:22 PM
Brian,my perspective on this is that all of the bushings you link to are all of a PU material. None of them are/were ever intended to endure the range of motion any of our cars have. PU is not a suitable bearing material for our applications. Delrin holds up quite well for our application. Other materials like graphite impregnated nylon are also suitable. Delrin is easier to machine in general,is fairly inexpensive and has proven to work well in our off road application with no lube needed or even desirable.

the 2 i linked from pacific are delrin bushings.
Oops,I missed that. Yes ,they would be suitable if the size works for the application/design. Remember some of us made our own bushings from delrin but anything readily available would be more desirable if the sizing suits the application.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 12:11:53 PM
and i can buy the tube and bolt from them to make it easier.
Agreed. What is the tube made from? Mild/alloy/cheapo Chinese metal?  Wall thickness?  Again,anything that cuts down fab time and is readily available , if made from quality material is a huge benefit to time saved.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 12:39:24 PM
For improved frictional properties PTFE-enhanced Delrin® AF products are available.$


This would be perhaps the best choice for bushing material if fabbing your own.
http://www.alro.com/divplastics/plasticsproduct_ertalyte.aspx  $$$$$$$

If nylon is your material of choice to fab from then this is a good choice.
http://www.alro.com/divplastics/plasticsproduct_nylatronlig.aspx   $$$$
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 24, 2018, 02:24:30 PM
and i can buy the tube and bolt from them to make it easier.
Agreed. What is the tube made from? Mild/alloy/cheapo Chinese metal?  Wall thickness?  Again,anything that cuts down fab time and is readily available , if made from quality material is a huge benefit to time saved.

allow unkown or un specified and .125 wall thickness. od and width would suit. it takes the load of a trailing arm so it has to be strong enough for that anyway. i do like the idea of http://www.alro.com/divplastics/plasticsproduct_ertalyte.aspx
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 24, 2018, 03:10:06 PM
You won't like the price of ertalyte.  There's a reason delrin is used so much. It does all that is actually needed. The only reason to use PU is to stiffen a stock suspension to enhance handling. Delrin makes a good bushing material that doesn't usually squeak,needs/wants no lube and does not deflect on impacts.
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 25, 2018, 08:04:58 PM
 :m Look at what I just found. :m :m

https://assaultind.com/products/yxz-1000-delrin-bushings
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: dsrace on June 25, 2018, 08:06:04 PM
order in bulk as you have a fleet of them to upgrade  :m nice find though!!
Title: Re: chassis
Post by: fabr on June 25, 2018, 08:10:12 PM
I'm too lazy to do any of them until they HAVE to be worked on.  I bought mine to play with ,not work on. After they NEED some work,they might gat some serious upgrading such a tranny gearing reduction and turbp and 30 inch tires. For now ,they are just backup play toys.
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