DTSFab.com (Desert, Trail and Sand)
UTV's Off Road ( RZR, YXZ, Mini Buggy, Carts,etc.) => UTV Chassis and Suspension => Topic started by: sandracer1 on August 18, 2014, 07:13:40 PM
-
My wifes Revolt has Elka stage 4 shocks on all 4 corners and Elka does not offer a spring combo that is soft enough for the Revolt. The rears are tolerable with the engine weight in the rear but the fronts suck.
I was wanting to put my 2 emulsion Fox shocks on the front and leaving the rear coil overs to deal with the body roll which is SCARY and dangerous!!!!!!
I will sell all 4 Elkas next year after I put the sway bar on but LS is 3 weeks away and need to try something if possible for her.
Thoughts?
-
no reason I know of not to mix them.
-
well adding an emulsion shock is just like an entry level version of the triple bypass shock beside a coil over. not a bad ideal imo either. the pro series 2.0 emulsion shock offers a shipped pressure psi of 200 psi. this could be used in conjunction with lighter coil springs and i am betting you would still need to drop a few psi. i think the min is 100 psi but not 100% sure on that and you can of course re-valve them as well to tone down what needs be. worth a shot imo and i bet you could achieve what she wants in for comfort level.
http://www.markssandtrans.com/FoxShox1.html (http://www.markssandtrans.com/FoxShox1.html)
-
well adding an emulsion shock is just like an entry level version of the triple bypass shock beside a coil over. not a bad ideal imo either. the pro series 2.0 emulsion shock offers a shipped pressure psi of 200 psi. this could be used in conjunction with lighter coil springs and i am betting you would still need to drop a few psi. i think the min is 100 psi but not 100% sure on that and you can of course re-valve them as well to tone down what needs be. worth a shot imo and i bet you could achieve what she wants in for comfort level.
http://www.markssandtrans.com/FoxShox1.html (http://www.markssandtrans.com/FoxShox1.html)
??? ??? ???
-
I took mixing to mean replacing the coilover with the emulsion (air shock assume large shaft).
-
I'm trying to understand how even using both together would bean " entry level version of the triple bypass shock beside a coil over".WHat are trying to say there DS??
-
I'm trying to understand how even using both together would bean " entry level version of the triple bypass shock beside a coil over".WHat are trying to say there DS??
i should have re-read that, cause well , i miss read that. what i suggested is not what he is trying to do. i was just saying that like a triple bypass shock ( or external bypass) mounted beside or behind a coil over is for additional shock absorbtion, in principal, so adding an emulsion shock absorber in addition to the coil over. i was thinking ( after re-reading i don't know why ) that he was thinking lighter coils + emulsion, using psi to bring them up along with the additional dampening control.
i did toy around with idea myself when i was building my current rail and talked with mark at marks sand trans about it a few times but decided not too. it will help smooth harsher impacts but not smooth out the rest as a triple by pass would. there was a little more too it than that but in the end for my app to many cons and not enough pro's.
-
http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/by-pass-shock-tuning.49110/ (http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/by-pass-shock-tuning.49110/)
just an interesting read
-
here is a some good info on valve stacks and tuning
http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm (http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm)
and this one too
http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/Damper_rules_of_thumb.html (http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/Damper_rules_of_thumb.html)
-
There was a good read on GD also. I'll see if I can find it. Busy welding up headers now so I'll read your stuff and look for mine later. Thanks for posting it up. We NEED more tuning info for sure.
-
here is a some good info on valve stacks and tuning
http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm (http://www.crawlpedia.com/shock_tuning.htm)
"ride plate" I would stay away from these at all costs. All it will do is mask one problem and create many more. If you really need a little more high speed control, another face shim on the top of the stack works without creating pressure spikes or rattling your teeth. Also, if using on a resi out the top shock you better have above 250psi in it or you will start cooking your fluid.
-
"ride plate" I would stay away from these at all costs. All it will do is mask one problem and create many more. If you really need a little more high speed control, another face shim on the top of the stack works without creating pressure spikes or rattling your teeth. Also, if using on a resi out the top shock you better have above 250psi in it or you will start cooking your fluid.
lol that is what i thought after reading that part of it. they also, kind of , say the same thing.
-
Fox's come with these from the factory. They also usually have a couple of spacers on the rebound side to take up space. I move one of these spacers to between the ride/rate plate and the shim stack. This way if you actually hit it you probably have other issues.
-
never thought of that before. on the 2.0 and 2.5 air shocks there are indeed 2 spacer between the rebound stack and lock nut. atleast there have been on all of the shocks I have tore down. I have never used emulsion shocks with the smaller shafts but would think they would be the same.
I have never tried " fluttering the stack" do you have any experience with this? mainly on the rebound side is what I am interested in but if you do then info on both sides would be good. looks like from everything I have read, the general condenses is if you can't get them dialed just the way you like them the next step is to add bypass shocks.
you seem to have some experience tuning shocks so how about you just run down to ls while we are there and chat?!? ;D ;)
-
Flutter stacks work well for getting rid of chatter without getting super sloppy as it would with opening up to many bleed holes. They are also very tunable with shim diameter and thickness. They work equally well on comp and rebound. I have found that doing one side without doing the same to the other creates problems, either packing or stacking.
Tuning airshocks is a pretty unrewarding task. Due to shaft displacement and oil foaming your valving changes are almost un-noticeable. Going to a resi out the bottom on them will require about half the shims as emulsion.
you seem to have some experience tuning shocks so how about you just run down to ls while we are there and chat?!? ;D ;)
More experience than I ever wanted. I would like to make a LS run, but getting the job situation squared away is taking longer than I thought. I have never been out of work this long before. In San Diego I could walk out of one job an into another the same day. Here, I have sent My resume to over 50 places in the last 2 months and gotten 2 interviews. The offshore welding job I had set-up before the move got fell through, the project got put on hold the night before I was supposed to fly out. Bummer, cause it was more than double what I can make locally..........
-
Just peddle your butt down well hook you up with some seat time, foods and refreshments. Ofcourse we'd be trading it for shock knowledge.
What part of Ks you move to? Easton is not even on Google! Lol
-
Flutter stacks work well for getting rid of chatter without getting super sloppy as it would with opening up to many bleed holes. They are also very tunable with shim diameter and thickness. They work equally well on comp and rebound. I have found that doing one side without doing the same to the other creates problems, either packing or stacking.
Tuning airshocks is a pretty unrewarding task. Due to shaft displacement and oil foaming your valving changes are almost un-noticeable. Going to a resi out the bottom on them will require about half the shims as emulsion.
are you referring to remote reservoir? if so how would you do this out the bottom? i only ask because as i understood it from fox they tried a remote reservoir on air shocks but said they had to many issure keeping the line together due to the amount of psi developed at full bump. not saying that it hasn't been done but any info on it?
-
What part of Ks you move to? Easton is not even on Google! Lol
Just a little north west of Leavenworth. Prison city.......... I swear there are more cops here per capita than anywhere else in the country. City police, County sheriff, MP's from the fort, more prison guards than you can count. It is one well armed area. I feel the need to buy more guns just to keep up.
-
sounds like a good enough reason! lol
here is a link to a fox valving chart
http://www.ridefox.com/dl/offroad/FOX_OR_25_VALVING.pdf (http://www.ridefox.com/dl/offroad/FOX_OR_25_VALVING.pdf)
on the rebound side mark at mark sand trans call them 2-1 and 3-1 #'s but that doesn't show up on the chart. but what it is .......take the #90 on rebound and add an aditional 1.6" od .015 shim to the existing one or 3-1 add 2 of them.
-
and 2.0 chart
http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/20_SERIES_VALVING_SPECS.pdf (http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/20_SERIES_VALVING_SPECS.pdf)
-
Well,eff ! My brain just shorted out.
-
Well,eff ! My brain just shorted out.
so you just figured it out too huh rofl rofl rofl i think i am going to try and flutter the stack on my front end along with the slower rebound rate and then we'll just see how that does at the dunes.
-
I've been doing some tuning. Change one thing and 2 others need looked at.........................
-
You guys crack me up!!!! This is why I have not started down the long road of shock tuning. I did it with clutch tuning and it took 2 years to get it right. But it was extremely gratifying when I was heading in the right direction and got it figured out.
To here it is worse than clutch tuning in regards to gratification, maybe I will just leave well enough alone.
But now I am reading and wanting to keep learning. Thanks guys!!!!!! Sarcasm ;D
-
Just get out the wrenches and learn teardown and assembly tricks. After that ,it's a breeze.
-
I have torn them down and resealed them. First lesson, make sure ALL the pressure is relieved and pull shock to full extension before removing the Schrader (?) valve. Shock oil tastes like crap and is hard to get out of your hair, clothes, walls and ceiling. My problem is around here I do not really need the suspension at its optimum. And when I get to L/S I just want to tear it up not tear it down. Maybe I will tweak a little if I buy some shims before the trip.
-
Does anyone have a cheap source of those high $$$$$$$$$ shims?
-
i have always dialed mine in for the best all around ride for what i do. this is the longest i have ever worked on one lol but i will get it at some point i guess maybe if i have to rofl a bath in that oil would really suck lol
i have always bought my shims or shim stacks from mark at marks sand trans but after having tore so many down and rebuilt them, i have a small collection. this last order i placed the shims were $1.50 per shim.
-
I've been doing some tuning. Change one thing and 2 others need looked at.........................
i have always found after changing the front then i have to do the back.....always something but all in the name of fun so oh well ;D ;)
-
i have always dialed mine in for the best all around ride for what i do. this is the longest i have ever worked on one lol but i will get it at some point i guess maybe if i have to rofl a bath in that oil would really suck lol
i have always bought my shims or shim stacks from mark at marks sand trans but after having tore so many down and rebuilt them, i have a small collection. this last order i placed the shims were $1.50 per shim.
Ya,I have a couple hundred $ of them for the 2.0's but now I need to complete the selection of shims for 2.5 and a few more extras. Looking for cheapest way.
-
Ya,I have a couple hundred $ of them for the 2.0's but now I need to complete the selection of shims for 2.5 and a few more extras. Looking for cheapest way.
well the 2.0 shims will work for the 2.5's and i am sure you know that but i'm guessing you need the larger dia for the 2.5's
-
Ya,the 1.8" completely and the thicker ones of all the rest is all I need but that is quite a few to have a full range.
-
Ya,the 1.8" completely and the thicker ones of all the rest is all I need but that is quite a few to have a full range.
i need a few more myself as well. i will be ordering a couple new before the trip. marks out on vacation right now.
-
Might see if he will do a "volume " price.
-
Might see if he will do a "volume " price.
pm me what you need and i will inquire
-
I'll try to put together a list in a bit.
-
i don't think he'll be back until tues the 2nd